Why were Rani & Aishwarya not on talking terms!!! - Page 3

baba adam ki jamane ki kahani kaha kaha se Dhunke le aati ho behen

There is no reason why I shouldn't believe her like there is no reason why you should be wrong with your opinion...people can always lie to make things more pleasant for themselves. I just wrote 'my scenario' because it shows another side of what is (quite regularly) told here.

The real question is: What made Salman think that Aish had an affair with ShahRukh when he hadn't (because that had been the reason why Salman got uncontrollable on the Chalte set)?

@Clochette

I find it a little alarming how many times in this thread and in other places, you've insinuated that Salman's rampage on the sets of Chalte Chalte and his jealous behavior in general should all be blamed on Aishwarya. That poor SRK and Salman are the victims here and it took an ambitious, conniving beauty to pit them against each other just because she could. A few times it even sounds like you blame Salman's abuse of Aishwarya on Aishwarya herself!

This is completely disregarding that Salman has a long history of abuse of his partners long before Aishwarya and after. The only difference is that none of his girlfriends ever publicly came out against him until Aishwarya. I think Somy Ali was the only one who took decades to come out against Salman and call him out for abuse much later and mentioned that she and Aish were the only two to do so.

Katrina btw was also abused. You can find stories circulating on the Internet of the two of them sitting outside at a table and him slapping her. She just sits there silently glaring at him before going off with him. FOD, when she was trying to make me hate Katrina by sharing sordid stories of her, practically reveled in sharing with me all the abuse stories of how badly Salman used to beat up Katrina. All the proof and evidence out there of this. FOD's hatred of Katrina meant she was blaming Katrina for being so weak and desperate for fame, that she was willing to put up with Salman's abuse and remains his friend to this day despite all the times he's beaten her. Your words may not have the same relish FOD had of Salman's abuse, but your cryptic statements and vague insinuations have the same motivation to defame a woman, which is really surprising to me.

In this day and age to see abuse defenders is very jarring especially from someone I have such a high opinion of. I don't see how you can be a SRK fan and laud him for his feminist views but then cut around and say all the Devdas/Chalte Chalte set issues were Aishwarya's fault. There's no way a jealous and abusive man with a history of cheating like Salman could have been paranoid enough to assume there's a relationship between his beautiful girlfriend and her co-star, one of his biggest rivals who is exceeding him in fame, right? It definitely has to be the woman at fault who spoke secrets and lies into Salman's ear to make him believe this way as he would never come to this misbegotten conclusion himself.

Then you also insinuate that Aishwarya had enough clout in the industry that she went up to Bhansali, and told him to hire SRK instead of Salman for Devdas. I found that really outrageous that you really believe this. Bhansali hired SRK because he knew he was the best person for the role (Dilip Kumar's natural heir and successor). Salman had problems with Bhansali for years afterwards because he was angry that he always worked with Bhansali and was now rejected. When Bhansali was planning Bajirao Mastani with Salman and Aish, remember that after the messy breakup, it was Aish who was replaced. Bhansali still planned on doing the movie but now Aish wasn't the lead actress. According to your earlier conclusion, Aish should have had enough power and influence over Bhansali to tell him, no you keep me and fire Salman. Replace Salman with another actor so I can still star in Bajirao. That didn't happen because your conclusion is wrong, Aishwarya never had that power to tell Bhansali to replace Salman with SRK. In an odd way, your conclusion is even offensive to SRK. Saying he wasn't the best person for the job and only got the role because Aish had a crush on him and wanted Salman to be jealous. If your bias against Aishwarya is now making you even demean SRK, then you must really dislike her.

And when Salman was still circulating stories in the media that he was doing Bajirao Mastani with Aish, Aish come out in her famous (or maybe infamous) press conference where she addressed her relationship with Salman and how they were no longer together. She said it was not even remotely true that she was making Bajirao with Salman, and these rumors had been circulating so widely that even she felt the need to speak out against them. Doesn't sound like someone who has the power to get Bhansali to fire and replace actors at her bidding. I hope you won't try and suggest next that even Hrithik's casting in Guzaarish was purely due to Aishwarya telling Bhansali who to cast. Even that casting upset Salman since he had finally made amends with Bhansali after Devdas and even agreed to do a cameo in Saawariya or him. I'm sure Salman thought this meant he would be first choice for Bhansali's next film and when Guzaarish didn't go to him, they had another feud.

I've noticed for some time now you have a blindspot against Aish. In fact you seem warmer to PC than you are to Aish. You're not required to like her, I don't want you to think that's my motivation here. My point is that I hope you realize what you perpetuate by claiming Aish is responsible for the SRK/Salman fallout and Salman's abuse because when you do that, you may think you're only condemning Aish, but you're really condemning all women. And what's what I feel the need to discuss because I hope or think you wouldn't feel that way but your words keep suggesting otherwise.

Originally posted by: Clochette

There is no reason why I shouldn't believe her like there is no reason why you should be wrong with your opinion...people can always lie to make things more pleasant for themselves. I just wrote 'my scenario' because it shows another side of what is (quite regularly) told here.

The real question is: What made Salman think that Aish had an affair with ShahRukh when he hadn't (because that had been the reason why Salman got uncontrollable on the Chalte set)?

Salman was a crazy drunken madman in those days. What other deep motivation do you need to find in him for his behavior? He used to behave the same way with Somy Ali and there were reports and actual articles written about him slapping Katrina in a coffee shop. He used to even control what kind of clothes she can wear.

Anupama Chopra's book had a paragraph about how Salman was mad that Bhansali didn't want him for Devdas and would lie drunk on the floor of Aish's vanity van. Once he insisted that he wanted to act out a scene with Aish and since he was so annoying and problematic, they let him do it to pacify him.

It's funny how people keep fighting over Rani and SRK and Aish and who was at fault for this and that when the only real person at fault was Salman. I don't think Rani owed Aish anything and was allowed to take a role offered to her. Similarly, SRK was fully in the right as a producer to replace an actor if their presence was causing too many problems for his movie.

For once you took it the wrong way, RPA.

1) Never ever did I - even remotely - excuse Salman's behaviour (for the reason that he is known for his temper...especially when under the influence of alcohol). I'm just not inclined to view Aish as a victim in everything related to Salman.

2) I don't know how much you're experienced what all can happen when one has serious (and heated) arguments where the only thought is hurting each other - at least with words. Aish is very good with words...so what do w e know about what had been said during those arguments. I won't accuse Aish for the incident on the set (I only would accuse Salman) but I won't put her in a victim role completely. There could have been done things to avoid it.

3) You guessed wrong about Devdas, completely wrong. As far as I know, Aish had been signed only after Bhansali had SRK as the lead (he contacted SRK after having watched PBDHH, btw). Madhuri had been the one he absolutely wanted from the get-go, but Madhuri took time to give a positive answer as she had just married. Nevertheless, your guess is interesting as it shows that you're protective about Aish (which is understandable to me).

To not deviate too much from the topic, I continue on pm

Originally posted by: Clochette

For once you took it the wrong way, RPA.

1) Never ever did I - even remotely - excuse Salman's behaviour (for the reason that he is known for his temper...especially when under the influence of alcohol). I'm just not inclined to view Aish as a victim in everything related to Salman.

2) I don't know how much you're experienced what all can happen when one has serious (and heated) arguments where the only thought is hurting each other - at least with words. Aish is very good with words...so what do w e know about what had been said during those arguments. I won't accuse Aish for the incident on the set (I only would accuse Salman) but I won't put her in a victim role completely. There could have been done things to avoid it.

3) You guessed wrong about Devdas, completely wrong. As far as I know, Aish had been signed only after Bhansali had SRK as the lead (he contacted SRK after having watched PBDHH, btw). Madhuri had been the one he absolutely wanted from the get-go, but Madhuri took time to give a positive answer as she had just married. Nevertheless, your guess is interesting as it shows that you're protective about Aish (which is understandable to me).

To not deviate too much from the topic, I continue on pm

I think this is the first time we've seen something from such a completely different perspective since we're usually so aligned on things lol. It's a nice change since my original sparring partner, Tanya, I no longer speak to.

I know we've discussed in the past that Salman is perhaps not as articulate and mentally spry as SRK. That this is an insecurity of his. And yes, Aish is good with her words. But as you said, we don't know what happened in those arguments. There's no way to assume that she is responsible for provoking him. And at the end of the day, there is NEVER an excuse for physical abuse. Never. It doesn't matter what she said to him, he doesn't have a right to hit her. Especially considering his body size and strength. More than that, even if we lived in a world where he had a right to hit her for whatever she said to him, he doesn't have a right to barge onto a set and break up property and ruin people's livelihoods. That is all on him. There is nothing she could say or do to excuse that otherwise we venture in Vanga territory with his claims that all of this is acceptable in love.

For someone who has such a huge temper as him, is deeply jealous and possessive to all his girlfriends, and has a major drinking problem (even killing someone out of negligence while drunk), I do not think Aishwarya is the problem here. She could say something different or nothing at all and he would have done what he did. The proof lies in the pattern of his history with every girlfriend. He did the same to Somy Ali, Katrina, etc. Can we say those women also said something to him that makes them slightly culpable in their abuse? That they are also not entirely blameless since if Salman hit them, they must have done or said something to provoke him? If Aish bears some guilt in this situation then logically this means Salman's other girlfriends also bore some guilt in their abuse.

I don't see what could be done to avoid Salman's incident on the set. As others have also pointed out, he would come to Devdas' set and make scenes even there while drunk. I've also heard the stories that he wouldn't let them shoot until he playacted the scenes first. He was such a nuisance, they let him do whatever because if they didn't humor him, he wouldn't let them start. How can you stop such a guy especially when he's so powerful and well connected? The reason he's well known for being so infamous on set (coming hours late, being drunk, etc.) is because he can get away with it. I don't see what you feel Aishwarya could have done to stop this behavior. If she broke up with him like she did eventually, it would have only escalated further.

Honestly, I'm surprised Bhansali didn't cast him as Devdas in the first place. I always thought the role of a drunk, toxic lover was perfect for Salman and one of the SRK roles he could easily have pulled off. I think the difference is that when SRK plays it, we can still see it as a romantic role (I know I do) whereas if Salman did it, it would feel a little too real and the ugliness would show. A little more like Dev D which does not romanticize the Devdas character like Bhansali did.

I never said Aish was responsible for Bhansali casting SRK in Devdas. I said it sounded like you were suggesting that she did this on purpose to spite Salman and how that was outrageous. From what I know of the casting, Kajol was first choice for Paro but she refused. Aishwarya was signed on after. And yes, Bhansali always wanted to work with Madhuri as she was his favorite. He wanted her for Khamoshi and I think also HDDCS.

RPA, we continue this on pm, okay?

There are reasons enough why Aish should have ended her relationship long before the Chalte shooting in 2002.

Fortunately, Katrina had another kind of relationship with Salman and his family... she had already been a close friend to the fashion designer Alvira Agnihotri, Salman's sister, before getting into a relationship with Salman.

Originally posted by: hotchoco

Anupama Chopra's book had a paragraph about how Salman was mad that Bhansali didn't want him for Devdas and would lie drunk on the floor of Aish's vanity van.

Anupama is hardly a gospel

Absolutely right...but that had happened (and much more).

Nevertheless, it has nothing to do with Aish and Rani...

Maybe Gaurav could make a thread about this subject (how Aish 'tortured' poor Salman...)

Originally posted by: PilloWtalk_13

baba adam ki jamane ki kahani kaha kaha se Dhunke le aati ho behen

Yar tum ny Emily in Paris part 2 dekha? Thoughts on Marchello?