Vir Das - I too am sorry I’m not Putin's mother - Page 18

Originally posted by: malikakas

It is a complex situation that most of the media are not highlighting objectively. In 2014, the US/EU backed a coup in Ukraine that ousted a democratically elected government because it was Russia friendly. That's what prompted Russia to annex Crimea and support a separatist movement in the pro-Russian Eastern areas (the main bread basket). There are leaked phone calls with Victoria Nuland from the State department in the then Obama administration where the US handpicked who would lead the new Ukrainian government. Personally, calling Ukraine a democratic or sovereign state is highly questionable. They have had a low level civil war brewing since 2014 killing 14000+ people in the East. Russia has very real reasons to fear Nato expansion in its region. America would never tolerate similar interference in its neighbourhood (eg bay of pigs invasion and the cuban missile crisis). America has definitely not been playing fair in that region to talk about "upholding democracy/freedom".

Now I don't think Putin is a particularly moral character to buy into the story about de-nazifying Ukraine even though there is a history of the Ukrainian government pandering to the Neo-nazi groups incorporating them into their government. The neo-nazi groups were instrumental in the Euromaiden revolution ironically also called the "revolution of dignity". Just yesterday the official account of the Ukrainian national guard posted a video cheering on the Azov group greasing their bullets with lard in order to target the muslims in the Russian army (Chechnya regiment). Today twitter has suppressed the ability to share the link even though the tweet and video are still up.

Additionally, the entire oil/gas conflict of interest has been completely side swept by the media just like the impropriety of Hunter Biden being paid off by a Ukrainian oil and gas company to introduce them to his dad the then VP Biden.

It is hard to support Putin's invasion given the terrible cost to the innocent people of Ukraine but there is also something very questionable about the West's hypocritical weaponization of western values that in theory we all uphold but rarely gets upheld by the west outside of its sphere.

I would always question everything I read from both sides. But Jimmy Dore shares some interesting information that hasn't been laid out well in MSM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm8QfxZ3HHw

I agree with most of what you said. But Yanukovych was not simply a Russia-friendly president. His regime was a puppet of Russia. That's why his removal pissed off Russia so much; the annexation of Crimea was an act of aggression no matter what it was prompted by. Come what may, interference in a country's internal affairs is wrong. If US is wrong to engineer a revolt, then so is Russia to annex a part of Ukraine (although they give the good old Slavic people excuse).

My point is, USA and the NATO might be using Ukraine as their pawn, but Russia isn't some innocent bystander. The Euromaidan movement might have had neo-Nazi elements but Zelensky is a democratically elected head of state.

Also, if Ukrainian government's 'persecution' of seperatists in Donbass is a legitimate excuse for invasion, then if tomorrow Pakistan attacks India because of the latter's 'human rights violations' (as claimed by Pakistan) in Kashmir, will that be acceptable? No way, right?

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Trump created his own problems, but seriously? You're comparing marking on a weather map with explaining sanctions on Putin away as parent punishing children?

What she is doing was exactly what the nutty woman who posted about wanting to be Putin's mommy said. Prez Biden and VP Harris want to be Putin's parents!😆

Not taking seriously an enemy like a former KGB agent in charge of the world's 2nd largest pile of nuclear arsenal is what got us to this point. People like VP Harris still haven't learned their lesson, it seems.

Either that or she thinks her base has the mental capacity of 10-year-olds. No other explanation for that clip.

Why the F does everyone suddenly want to adopt Putin. What the hell? 🤣🤣

Also since the discussion has clearly long since shifted from the cringey "poem", to the actual war itself, here's my two cents on the matter:

There's absolutely nothing wrong if India are going to be *genuinely* neutral, and push for peace between both parties. After all, peaceful resolution of this type of conflict is always better than war, and at the end of the day it is a fact that technically speaking, this war actually does have nothing directly to do with India.

But that said, if the current neutrality devolves into actually supporting Russia against the West (unlikely considering this government seem to have been managing international relations, especially with the West and their allies very well so far), then IMO that would be a very foolish move.

India were very much allied with Russia in the past, but I think many of us need to keep in mind that the world was completely different in 1940s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s than it is today...

And if they supported us back then, we need to remember that they did so with their own self interest at the back of it (and they more than collected their dues for the same, a fact that "right" leaning Indians themselves exposed and constantly re-iterated till recently ).

So considering that this is politics and not personal relations, I hope the current government will put India's interests as a nation first rather than old loyalties which are fast losing relevance in a changing world, something they seemed like they were doing till recently...

Originally posted by: kankabhor

Of course everyone here knows NATO is anti Russia. I say it loud and clear that if my country is surrounded by enemies I still wont go and invade it especially when I have nuclear weapons as deterrent. What is the logic of going for militiary war just because you dont like what your neighboring countries are doing? By that logic, India should invade Pakistan as it is gettign closer to China and now India has all enemies except Bangladesh. Russia can make his own diplomatic alliance with China and put pressure on West. There are many diplomatic ways to go around this issue. One can not justify military war for such reasons. What is the point of having independent nations if they have to listen to Russia or US? If tomorrow US wages war on other independent country, my stand will be same

I don't get it. If you dont want to have rational debate, then what was the point of posting your views in the frist place.

Exactly what I was thinking reading about this whole thing in the news earlier...

If forming alliances with countries your country doesn't get on with is a valid excuse to invade a neighbour then both what you suggested above, as well as (God forbid 😵) China themselves invading India for getting closer to the West with QUAD and all could be justified that way...

Food for thought for both Indians and Pakistanis who are completely backing the Russia side in this conflict I guess...

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

FYI. Ukranian president is a Jew. Calling him a Nazi is like calling Modi an ISIS member.

I agree Ukranians and Eastern Europeans are generally racist, but using one random photo to condemn a whole group as Nazis, who not only think they are superior but also violently attack, is a bit much. One is a despicable belief, the other a crime against humanity.

Agreed. Us Indians need to wake up and realise that most of these groups saying Ukraine deserves to be invaded because of the racism there would gladly say exactly the same thing if one of India's neighbours on either side (who are obviously very close to each other and very hostile to India as of now) were to take it into their head to try and invade...

I can literally hear that whole lobby declaring "BJP are evil communal fascists anyway, the people would probably be better off being ruled by *our not so friendly neighbour to the left*"....

Lost as how this, and the fact that Russia is highly unlikely to support India in any conflict against either of the not so friendly neighbours in the present climate hasn't occurred to so many Indians 😳...

Originally posted by: arnavfluffy

Does India have a choice?

What if Russia takes back it's military support??

India will fall prey to China the next second.

Russia is unlikely to ever support India against China anyway... Russia and China are very close allies, and Russia is definitely the less powerful partner in that alliance now.

Originally posted by: Anjalika01

Russia is unlikely to ever support India against China anyway... Russia and China are very close allies, and Russia is definitely the less powerful partner in that alliance now.

Okay so this is just as per my understanding :

Russia is obviously not going to support India if either of its neighbours start getting aggressive again. Everyone knows that and those who don't clearly aren't much aware about the world of geopolitics.

But this abstaining is not for that at all. Its so that when India is the one facing such aggression, Russia remains neutral. Just like India 'officially' has. That's it.

India already has two nuclear states against it. No point getting a third one added to the list.

Russia if infuriated can very easily support one of our neighbours' constant militancy push in our territories. India doesn't want that headache as well.

So the abstaining is just to avoid more threat than we already have and not because we believe they'll support us against our neighbours.

Originally posted by: trouble_006

Okay so this is just as per my understanding :

Russia is obviously not going to support India if either of its neighbours start getting aggressive again. Everyone knows that and those who don't clearly aren't much aware about the world of geopolitics.

But this abstaining is not for that at all. Its so that when India is the one facing such aggression, Russia remains neutral. Just like India 'officially' has. That's it.

India already has two nuclear states against it. No point getting a third one added to the list.

Russia if infuriated can very easily support one of our neighbours' constant militancy push in our territories. India doesn't want that headache as well.

So the abstaining is just to avoid more threat than we already have and not because we believe they'll support us against our neighbours.

Not just the third one, we will be on the Hitlist if we dare to take a stance against them now. It’s like a betrayal from a friend, which will make you forget even the enemies. India can do without all this nonsense at this point.

Originally posted by: BettyA1

If anybody is confused and overwhelmed by all the info but still don't 'get' what's going on, here's US VP to the rescue

https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1498746249591373831

Translation: The conflict is just one sided because Russia suddenly woke up one morning and felt like taking in their smaller neighbor Ukraine. There is nothing else to it. All this NATO pito none of it!

Originally posted by: trouble_006

Okay so this is just as per my understanding :

Russia is obviously not going to support India if either of its neighbours start getting aggressive again. Everyone knows that and those who don't clearly aren't much aware about the world of geopolitics.

But this abstaining is not for that at all. Its so that when India is the one facing such aggression, Russia remains neutral. Just like India 'officially' has. That's it.

India already has two nuclear states against it. No point getting a third one added to the list.

Russia if infuriated can very easily support one of our neighbours' constant militancy push in our territories. India doesn't want that headache as well.

So the abstaining is just to avoid more threat than we already have and not because we believe they'll support us against our neighbours.

Ah that definitely makes more sense, if that is the case, and they remain neutral rather than outright supporting Russia then that's probably the best thing to do in this situation...