Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Eternal Love CC # 9 - Page 96

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Ok thankyou I guess I didn't read that part about Paundrik's allies killing Vrishnis

About the actions of Kansa n Jarasandh, I am not saying they were better when compared to Krishna, obviously not, Krishna was the best person back then

But Kansa or Jarasandh were not that bad people as the texts made them, they were ordinary people of their era who killed for throne n revenge. The texts make them the biggest villians of all time. Akrura on the other hand was actually a sly, he attacked from back and maintained a very supportive element in front, probably that's why he gets a very respectable mention

By the way could you tell me why Kansa only had doubts from Krishna n not Balram? Wouldn't being Vasudhev's elder son, he too have a claim on throne especially once the people got to know that Kansa wasn't a Yadav by bloody?

Plus most probably Balram wasn't even Rohini's son. He would have been a son of Devaki or one of the other daughters of Devaka Vasudev married, since it is stated that Devaki conceived him and he was womb transported to Rohini. Now that isn't possible humanly, so probably he was simply a son of Vasudev n one of Devaka's daughter who was somehow sent to Rohini immediately after birth

Concern was about Devaki's son, not Vasudeva's.

Balram was Rohini's son. if Rohini gave birth to him, she was his mother. The transport story was prob put about to make it seem like Krishna and Balram were full brothers.

Balaram was Rohini Bahlika's son. It was Devaki and her sisters sons who could have been a threat to the throne, to convince Andhaka Yadava to side with Vasudev.

BalaRama was just Vrishni Yadava. Krishna was Vrishni Andhaka. However Vasudev's favourite wife was Rohini and the son he wanted on throne after him was Balram not Krishna. That is why the propaganda of Balram being in Devaki's womb and transferred to Rohini.

BTW the 7 children that got killed before Krishna could have been Devaki's sisters not Devaki herself alone.

Devaki represents all the sisters, just like Gandhari represents her 9 sisters

Vasudev alone gets married to all the 7 daughters of Devaka and his younger brothers are married Ugrasen's daughters (Kansa's sisters) to ensure all Andhaka main women are married into his family.

The 7 Devaka sisters were to be married to Somdatta Bahlika and Satyaka kidnapped them for Vasudev

It was a proper full fledged plan to take back the throne.

Kansa went after children so he was evil no doubt about it he was not an Asura or belonged to Asura tribe. The previous incarnation story of Kalnemi was added to him just like Vishnu incarnation was added Krishna

but all Asura are not evil. Prahlad, Virochan, Bali, Banasur etc were good guys and anti Vishnu that is all.

Jarasandh was not doing Human sacrifice. He was getting non friendly kings killed and replaced by his own puppets. The human sacrifice was false political propaganda just like cannibalism of Ghatothkach or divine birth of Pandavas or fire birth of Draupadi

Just like Krishna killed Shishupal and replaced him with Dhristaketu, killed Jarasandh and replaced with Sahadev.

Sacrifice of humans happens in Khandavadahan by Krishna and Arjun for Agni

Ugrasen was nobody to offer any power to anyone considering he had just got out of prison and the one guy who had power over Yadavas was his son and was already dead.

Killing Kansa in a one on one is different and controlling power hungry Yadava clans is another.

Kansa himself could do that only because of Jarasandh's support

So Ugrasen had no power to offer throne and Krishna had no power to take it for himself

The Bhoja Andhaka and Vrishni stuck together because Ugrasen was made throne warmer, thereby postponing the question of who gets to be king to a later time while they united deal with Jarasandh.

After incessant attacks at one point to save themselves Yadavas actually send Balram and Krishna out of Mathura and they go to Parshuram to seek help. Eventually Krishna gets the solution to both problems of Jarasandh and one up man ship on Yadavas by getting Balram the dowry of land for Dwarka

But the other clans are not quiet, while remaining united against Jarasandh they kept looking for a way to take over.

Satyabhama proved to be the step to the throne.

But here to Krishna was thwarted when Balaram openly called him a usurper and broke the Yadava unity and left for Mithila.

Then Vasudev was made King.

At no point could Krishna ever become King himself till at least Balrama was alive, that was just not possible. Whoever offered him the throne..so even if he wanted Power he could not get it till Balrama was alive. Only option was to get him killed, but the moment Balrama was killed then Krishna would be alone against Kritaverma and Akrura and Jarasandh

So Jarasandh was not a good guy but he was just as much evil as Vasudev and BalaRama and Kritaverma

Krishna himself does enough questionable things for the sake of survival and at some point things go beyond survival to acquiring power (Khandavdahan where he gets his weapons and chariot, subhadra Haran etc) just that Vasudev BalaRama, Jarasandh and Kansa had more than survival in mind

Krishna does good too for Narakasura's captives and Draupadi.

But if let's say Jarasandh had won, we may have definetly come to know about his good deeds too.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Concern was about Devaki's son, not Vasudeva's.

Balram was Rohini's son. if Rohini gave birth to him, she was his mother. The transport story was prob put about to make it seem like Krishna and Balram were full brothers.

@Bold but how is that possible? Vasudev was in prison along with only Devaki, while Rohini was in Nand's house(even if not, she was not with Vasudev to concieve him.

Or could it be that Balram was a Niyog child something they removed to show closest relation between Balram n Krishna

And that makes sense too, Vasudev was imprisoned, and he knew that Kansa wants to kill his sons to reach the throne. Without divinity he could have never been sure that he would be able to free himself or would be able to transport one of his sons out. In such a condition he would have wanted to have at least one surviving son so to least have his lineage's claim on at least the post of Vrishni chief if not the Yadava throne ( and even aim for it later if luck favours) probably that's why he asked to Rohini to move out to his friend's house and have a child by Niyog.

This could very much be a possibility

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

@Bold but how is that possible? Vasudev was in prison along with only Devaki, while Rohini was in Nand's house(even if not, she was not with Vasudev to concieve him.

Or could it be that Balram was a Niyog child something they removed to show closest relation between Balram n Krishna

And that makes sense too, Vasudev was imprisoned, and he knew that Kansa wants to kill his sons to reach the throne. Without divinity he could have never been sure that he would be able to free himself or would be able to transport one of his sons out. In such a condition he would have wanted to have at least one surviving son so to least have his lineage's claim on at least the post of Vrishni chief if not the Yadava throne ( and even aim for it later if luck favours) probably that's why he asked to Rohini to move out to his friend's house and have a child by Niyog.

This could very much be a possibility

Vasudev wasn't imprisoned. He didn't even know Kamsa was monitoring his moves.

What was happening is Kamsa monitored for Devaki's pregnancy. Vasudev was watched whenever he entered women's quarters. And once she became pregnant, she was imprisoned.

So Rohini becoming pregnant was no surprise.

https://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_002.html

Angrlly, kaMsa ordered the ministers who follow his wishes: All of you shall be engaged in destroying the conception of devakI.

Starting with the first, all the seven conceptions shall be destroyed as they are born. Where there is an apprehension about a danger, it should be destroyed at the root.

Let devakI move freely in the house, guarded by my men in disguise. When she becomes pregnant, she should be placed under guard.

My women will track her pregnancy from the month of menstruation. We will do the needful at the time of delivery.

Servants desiring my benefit shall guard vasudeva in the women's quarters throughout day and night. Women and eunuchs shall keep an eye on him without telling the reason.

Only such human efforts are possible by humans. But a powerful man like me can thwart the course of fate by certain means. Listen.

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Balaram was Rohini Bahlika's son. It was Devaki and her sisters sons who could have been a threat to the throne, to convince Andhaka Yadava to side with Vasudev.

BalaRama was just Vrishni Yadava. Krishna was Vrishni Andhaka. However Vasudev's favourite wife was Rohini and the son he wanted on throne after him was Balram not Krishna. That is why the propaganda of Balram being in Devaki's womb and transferred to Rohini.

BTW the 7 children that got killed before Krishna could have been Devaki's sisters not Devaki herself alone.

Devaki represents all the sisters, just like Gandhari represents her 9 sisters

Vasudev alone gets married to all the 7 daughters of Devaka and his younger brothers are married Ugrasen's daughters (Kansa's sisters) to ensure all Andhaka main women are married into his family.

The 7 Devaka sisters were to be married to Somdatta Bahlika and Satyaka kidnapped them for Vasudev

It was a proper full fledged plan to take back the throne.

Kansa went after children so he was evil no doubt about it he was not an Asura or belonged to Asura tribe. The previous incarnation story of Kalnemi was added to him just like Vishnu incarnation was added Krishna

but all Asura are not evil. Prahlad, Virochan, Bali, Banasur etc were good guys and anti Vishnu that is all.

Jarasandh was not doing Human sacrifice. He was getting non friendly kings killed and replaced by his own puppets. The human sacrifice was false political propaganda just like cannibalism of Ghatothkach or divine birth of Pandavas or fire birth of Draupadi

Just like Krishna killed Shishupal and replaced him with Dhristaketu, killed Jarasandh and replaced with Sahadev.

Sacrifice of humans happens in Khandavadahan by Krishna and Arjun for Agni

Ugrasen was nobody to offer any power to anyone considering he had just got out of prison and the one guy who had power over Yadavas was his son and was already dead.

Killing Kansa in a one on one is different and controlling power hungry Yadava clans is another.

Kansa himself could do that only because of Jarasandh's support

So Ugrasen had no power to offer throne and Krishna had no power to take it for himself

The Bhoja Andhaka and Vrishni stuck together because Ugrasen was made throne warmer, thereby postponing the question of who gets to be king to a later time while they united deal with Jarasandh.

After incessant attacks at one point to save themselves Yadavas actually send Balram and Krishna out of Mathura and they go to Parshuram to seek help. Eventually Krishna gets the solution to both problems of Jarasandh and one up man ship on Yadavas by getting Balram the dowry of land for Dwarka

But the other clans are not quiet, while remaining united against Jarasandh they kept looking for a way to take over.

Satyabhama proved to be the step to the throne.

But here to Krishna was thwarted when Balaram openly called him a usurper and broke the Yadava unity and left for Mithila.

Then Vasudev was made King.

At no point could Krishna ever become King himself till at least Balrama was alive, that was just not possible. Whoever offered him the throne..so even if he wanted Power he could not get it till Balrama was alive. Only option was to get him killed, but the moment Balrama was killed then Krishna would be alone against Kritaverma and Akrura and Jarasandh

So Jarasandh was not a good guy but he was just as much evil as Vasudev and BalaRama and Kritaverma

Krishna himself does enough questionable things for the sake of survival and at some point things go beyond survival to acquiring power (Khandavdahan where he gets his weapons and chariot, subhadra Haran etc) just that Vasudev BalaRama, Jarasandh and Kansa had more than survival in mind

Krishna does good too for Narakasura's captives and Draupadi.

But if let's say Jarasandh had won, we may have definetly come to know about his good deeds too.

@Bold true and that goes for Kansa n Duryodhan too.

Could you tell if there is some hint for 9 Gandhar sisters or you have come up with the number basis understanding

Actually my point was simply that people like Balram, Akrura get high esteemed narration just because they were together with Krishna, even Kritvarma who supported Kauravas finds respectful mention maybe incentive of being Krishna's samadhi. But Jarasandh, Paundrik n Kansa who are equally bad are made demon and worst of humans possible.

We can definitely not compare Krishna with othets, He did use questionable tactics but no crimes were done by him. I still feel Khandavdahan was not a human sacrifice but as escape mechanism to free Indraprasth from external threat and definitely did a lot of good things

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

I've thought about it a while. Balram was the only one Krishna had left of his childhood. After killing of Kamsa, Jarasandha kept attacking. Finally, Vasudeva asked Krishna to get out. Yup, a father did that. Balram was the only one who stuck with Krishna. With Parasu Ram's help, they went into hiding and eventually defeated Jarasandha.

Then, Vasudev, Krishna’s FATHER, said this: Theking who has the six qualities is capable of understanding the essence of themeaning of advices. kR^iShNa! All that is told by vikadru with intelligence iswith principles and acceptable. vikadru spoke about the duties of the kingand the truth in the interest of the people. O the best among yAdava-s,please do whatever is acceptable.

This is Krishna’s response: At this time, I, along with my brother, powerfulbut acting like weak, will leave, for protecting our lives

mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_039.html (mahabharata-resources.org)

Psychologically speaking, a human Krishna wouldn't be able to bring himself to disown Balram, let alone kill him. Even to the end, Krishna was begging Balram to talk to him. Balram refused to say a word at the moment of his death. he was that much of a *******

Balraam definitely had lot of tantrums. There are many instances of him behaving like a manchild. Krishna did tolerate his shenanigans throughout his life. I too believe that he had too much of an emotional soft spot for him. No doubt he was powerful n all but that was the root cause of his arrogance.

Even in folktales he is depicted as the harbinger of trouble. In a very popular Odia folktale(centered around Lord Jagannath, Goddess Lakshmi and Balabhadra(Balraam) )he even asked Lord Jagannath to disown Goddess Lakshmi for visiting a shudra woman's house and the Lord did according to his Big Bro's wish.🤪

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Balaram was Rohini Bahlika's son. It was Devaki and her sisters sons who could have been a threat to the throne, to convince Andhaka Yadava to side with Vasudev.

BalaRama was just Vrishni Yadava. Krishna was Vrishni Andhaka. However Vasudev's favourite wife was Rohini and the son he wanted on throne after him was Balram not Krishna. That is why the propaganda of Balram being in Devaki's womb and transferred to Rohini.

BTW the 7 children that got killed before Krishna could have been Devaki's sisters not Devaki herself alone.

Devaki represents all the sisters, just like Gandhari represents her 9 sisters

Vasudev alone gets married to all the 7 daughters of Devaka and his younger brothers are married Ugrasen's daughters (Kansa's sisters) to ensure all Andhaka main women are married into his family.

The 7 Devaka sisters were to be married to Somdatta Bahlika and Satyaka kidnapped them for Vasudev

It was a proper full fledged plan to take back the throne.

Kansa went after children so he was evil no doubt about it he was not an Asura or belonged to Asura tribe. The previous incarnation story of Kalnemi was added to him just like Vishnu incarnation was added Krishna

but all Asura are not evil. Prahlad, Virochan, Bali, Banasur etc were good guys and anti Vishnu that is all.

Jarasandh was not doing Human sacrifice. He was getting non friendly kings killed and replaced by his own puppets. The human sacrifice was false political propaganda just like cannibalism of Ghatothkach or divine birth of Pandavas or fire birth of Draupadi

Just like Krishna killed Shishupal and replaced him with Dhristaketu, killed Jarasandh and replaced with Sahadev.

Sacrifice of humans happens in Khandavadahan by Krishna and Arjun for Agni

Ugrasen was nobody to offer any power to anyone considering he had just got out of prison and the one guy who had power over Yadavas was his son and was already dead.

Killing Kansa in a one on one is different and controlling power hungry Yadava clans is another.

Kansa himself could do that only because of Jarasandh's support

So Ugrasen had no power to offer throne and Krishna had no power to take it for himself

The Bhoja Andhaka and Vrishni stuck together because Ugrasen was made throne warmer, thereby postponing the question of who gets to be king to a later time while they united deal with Jarasandh.

After incessant attacks at one point to save themselves Yadavas actually send Balram and Krishna out of Mathura and they go to Parshuram to seek help. Eventually Krishna gets the solution to both problems of Jarasandh and one up man ship on Yadavas by getting Balram the dowry of land for Dwarka

But the other clans are not quiet, while remaining united against Jarasandh they kept looking for a way to take over.

Satyabhama proved to be the step to the throne.

But here to Krishna was thwarted when Balaram openly called him a usurper and broke the Yadava unity and left for Mithila.

Then Vasudev was made King.

At no point could Krishna ever become King himself till at least Balrama was alive, that was just not possible. Whoever offered him the throne..so even if he wanted Power he could not get it till Balrama was alive. Only option was to get him killed, but the moment Balrama was killed then Krishna would be alone against Kritaverma and Akrura and Jarasandh

So Jarasandh was not a good guy but he was just as much evil as Vasudev and BalaRama and Kritaverma

Krishna himself does enough questionable things for the sake of survival and at some point things go beyond survival to acquiring power (Khandavdahan where he gets his weapons and chariot, subhadra Haran etc) just that Vasudev BalaRama, Jarasandh and Kansa had more than survival in mind

Krishna does good too for Narakasura's captives and Draupadi.

But if let's say Jarasandh had won, we may have definetly come to know about his good deeds too.

Well well dear i have manyyyyy questions.😳

First and foremost,was Krishna the avatar of Bhagawan Vishnu ?

Draupadi was not born from fire ?

Nobody raised questions on the sudden pregnancy of Rohini ??? i mean she lived in another man's home...you know the gossip mill would have went haywire !

How on Earth under the scrutiny of prison guards did Vasudev and Devaki have sexual intercourses ??? 🤪

Gandhari had 9 sisters ? What was their story ? Was the marriage to a goat story true ?

Do you think shakuni loved his nephews or he simply wanted them to perish ?

How did Balraam get the land of Dwarika as dowry ? Revati and her father belonged to satya yuga if i am not wrong.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Vasudev wasn't imprisoned. He didn't even know Kamsa was monitoring his moves.

What was happening is Kamsa monitored for Devaki's pregnancy. Vasudev was watched whenever he entered women's quarters. And once she became pregnant, she was imprisoned.

So Rohini becoming pregnant was no surprise.

https://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_002.html

Angrlly, kaMsa ordered the ministers who follow his wishes: All of you shall be engaged in destroying the conception of devakI.

Starting with the first, all the seven conceptions shall be destroyed as they are born. Where there is an apprehension about a danger, it should be destroyed at the root.

Let devakI move freely in the house, guarded by my men in disguise. When she becomes pregnant, she should be placed under guard.

My women will track her pregnancy from the month of menstruation. We will do the needful at the time of delivery.

Servants desiring my benefit shall guard vasudeva in the women's quarters throughout day and night. Women and eunuchs shall keep an eye on him without telling the reason.

Only such human efforts are possible by humans. But a powerful man like me can thwart the course of fate by certain means. Listen.

Ewww ewww ewwwwwwwwwww

I mean.....🤢it would have been much better for Kansa to put a total ban on sexual intercourse between Devaki and Vasudev. 😆 Na rehta baans na bajti bansuri.😃

So the melodramatic imprisonment of Devaki Vasudev shown in tv serials are exaggerations.

Originally posted by: Krishnpriya

Well well dear i have manyyyyy questions.😳

First and foremost,was Krishna the avatar of Bhagawan Vishnu ? --

This is completely a belief system if you want to believe that something happened according to the religious teachings then there can be no questions. But if you take it in Historical perspective then this doesn't seem a probability. Plus there are multiple things that Krishna did which can't be expected from God.

Draupadi was not born from fire ?__

Answer is the same as above that isn't possible in practicality. Plus the texts doesn't state she popped out of fire, she is mentioned to have appeared in the Yagyasthali. No mention about how and from where she came. It's entirely open to interpretation. If you want to take divinity then maybe she came from fire, but in Historical perspective this isn't possible at all

Nobody raised questions on the sudden pregnancy of Rohini ??? i mean she lived in another man's home...you know the gossip mill would have went haywire !

I had this confusion too, but as HearMeRoar stated from HV, Vasudev wasn't imprisoned. He stayed at his home along with his wives, Rohini included, she was most probably sent to Nand after she would have concieved

How on Earth under the scrutiny of prison guards did Vasudev and Devaki have sexual intercourses ??? 🤪

Same answer as above, HV is clear that Devki Vasudev weren't imprisoned, just that Kans n his spies were monitoring his relationship with Devaki to ensure when she could concieve and the child birth could happen. Most probably Vasudev didn't even know he was being monitored (read the text shared by HearMeRoar)

Gandhari had 9 sisters ? What was their story ? Was the marriage to a goat story true ?

Gandhaari isn't a name, it simply is a title meaning the princess of Gandhar just like Maithili or Panchali. So which ever princess would have been there would have been called Gandhaari. Now giving birth to 100 sons isn't possible for a lady, so it could be assumed that there were multiple Gandhaari's and 100 sons were their cumulative number.

Saying that I also have the same question about the number 9, where does it find a reference

Coming to goat story, it is an Indonesian folklore (not present in actual Indonesian Mahabharatha if I am not mistaken), firstly that doesn't seem true, secondly even if it is(like few people do to escape misfortune) then too it does not make much sense to consider that her children were that of that goat, since we know that polyandry and widow remarriage was never considered wrong. Even if she married a goat prior to marrying Dhritrashtra that doesn't make her marriage with Dhritrashtra any less legal or real (irrespective of whether or not the goat was alive) there is a difference between marriage n Niyog

Do you think shakuni loved his nephews or he simply wanted them to perish ?

Obviously he loved them. He was the only one in the innermost circle of Duryodhan who gave him good and genuine advices and asked him to take Pandavas as friends by ending this enimity

How did Balraam get the land of Dwarika as dowry ? Revati and her father belonged to satya yuga if i am not wrong.

Again that Satyug thing is a belief system, even today we can't travel in space with suchba speed to cause such a huge time dilation so how can they do it ages back. Most probably our ancient rishis got the concept of time dilation and that was put into the storyline to make it more fascinating

In any case, it is clearly stated that the infertile n open to flood land around Dwarika was of Revati's father who handed it to Yadavs along with his daughter

Although I do not have knowledge like Chiilli still trying to answer as per my understanding. Please see above

Originally posted by: Krishnpriya

Well well dear i have manyyyyy questions.😳

First and foremost,was Krishna the avatar of Bhagawan Vishnu ?

Draupadi was not born from fire ?

Nobody raised questions on the sudden pregnancy of Rohini ??? i mean she lived in another man's home...you know the gossip mill would have went haywire !

How on Earth under the scrutiny of prison guards did Vasudev and Devaki have sexual intercourses ??? 🤪

Gandhari had 9 sisters ? What was their story ? Was the marriage to a goat story true ?

Do you think shakuni loved his nephews or he simply wanted them to perish ?

How did Balraam get the land of Dwarika as dowry ? Revati and her father belonged to satya yuga if i am not wrong.

1. Narayana - man who is in yogic slumber who awakens in times of need. It's a metaphor for someone who rises to the occasion. I'd say Krishna fits the bill.

Prof Bandhopadyay has this theory. Over centuries, the rishi clans put up one figure every so many generations for the masses to worship. Someone they could use for political reasons. The prof is of the opinion that Panchali was meant to be Vyasa's Vishnu avatar. Like Mohini before her. Prof says it didn't work because patriarchy. I think it was because Panchali's progeny didn't survive. The ones who did survive (Parikshit, Vajra) pushed deification of Krishna and made Arjuna Nar, the associate of Narayana.

2. If there is one thing I can say with certainty about MBh, it's that Draupadi was NOT born from fire. MBh equates Agni to Angirasa many times, so I assume she was one of the clan who was adopted by Drupad. In fact, in Putradarshana Parva, she is called a part of the fire god. The Adivamshaavatarana parva actually calls her Lakshmi avatar.

Also, I'm darned sure the Saraswati mentioned in shloka zero of each parva is Panchali since she WAS likened to Saraswati.

narayanam namaskritya

naram chaiva narottamam

devim sarasvatim vyasam

tato jayam udirayet

3 & 4 - I gave an answer with citation previously.

5. Chili can answer better about Gandhari. Only thing I know for sure is that she was a student of Durvasa. That man certainly got around.

6. Shakuni actually had only one role to play in the saga. The dice hall. He tried to dissuade Kauravas from their misdeeds, but Karna encouraged them. Unfortunately, shows reverse the blame.

7. Story of Revathi is that she was older and taller than Balram. She was from a prior yuga and went to devaloka (I think) and on return, married Balram. He tapped her on the head with his weapon, and she became shorter. Literally, he cut her down to size. Understanding Balram's other history, you can imagine how he managed to do it.