TOTW #25: Classical Raga based Indian film songs - Page 3

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Posted: 1 years ago
#21

No matter which language you hear the song in, it is just as beautiful 🥺🖤


Raag: Baageshree

Languages: Tamil, Telugu, Hindi


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfwCtR1iLFw

Song: Kannalanae

Movie: Bombay

Artists: A. R. Rahman, K. S. Chithra

Released: 1995


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-1gysnu4MM

Song: Kannanule

Movie: Bombay

Artists: A. R. Rahman, K. S. Chithra

Released: 1995


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW9ynOaDJZg

Song: Kehna Hi Kya

Movie: Bombay

Artists: A. R. Rahman, K. S. Chithra

Released: 1995

LizzieBennet thumbnail

Classical Connoisseurs

Posted: 1 years ago
#22

Ahh first off, thanks for posting this theme, Madhu.


Raags are endlessly fascinating for me since it's a musical pattern/ format/ framework that is unique to only Indian Classical music. So it's safe to say there won't be any Western songs on this thread. Then again a site mentions Rasputin by Boney M as being derived from Aberi/ Bhimpalasi smiley5smiley24.(Yeah, I don't know about that but I'm no expert. smiley22)

And secondly, because they are such perfect examples of the juxtaposing of Music & Math.


Having been a student of music, and learning (& still trying to learn) the nuances of what makes each raag unique, this topic might be one in which I post than in any other! So please forgive my (over) enthusiasm!


Raags (or raagams as they're called down South) are formed by permutations and combinations of the Saptaswaras. These again are different in the two main forms of Indian Classical Music: Hindustani & Carnatic. Though there are some equivalencies such as Malkauns=Hindolam, Yaman=Kalyani, Bhoopali=Mohanam, Aberi=Bhimpalasi, Bilawal= Shankarabharanam, etc sometimes there are some subtle differences (that normally only connoisseurs can detect!) that makes it difficult to find an exact equivalent, so it's rounded up as a near equivalent.


How are raags formed? Well, they are a structure/ framework composed of combinations of the swaras. The note 'Sa' (Shadja) and 'Pa' (Panchama) are fixed and remain constant. However the other 5 swaras - Ri Ga Ma Dha Ni - have different forms based on the pitches (frequencies) at which they are rendered. Again, I believe there are differences in this variability in Hindustani and Carnatic music. Hindustani music has two forms of each of these notes (Komal and Shuddha and in some cases Teevra) whereas Carnatic music has 3 forms (except for Ma that has 2 forms).


Some ragas contain all 7 notes: Sa Ri Ga Ma Pa Dha Ni (formed by different permutations of the variations of Ri Ga Ma Dha & Ni) and these are called thaat or Melakarta raags.


All the other raags (that contain fewer than 7 notes) are derived from these Melakarta (Thaat) raags and are called Janya raags. There are 72 Melakarta raagams in Carnatic music (Math, people! smiley10) and several thousand (?) Janya raags that are derivatives. Hindustani music has 10 main thaats.

Janya Raagams are a vast topic. And things are not as simple as saying so and so raag is a Janya of so and so Melakarta. Nope.

Since each raag has an ascending scale (aaroh or aarohanam) and a descending scale (Avroh or Avarohanam), one of them can be derived from one thaat and the other scale from a different thaat!

Then you can have asymmetric janya ragas.. with a different number of notes in the arohanam and avarohanam! Fascinating, no?

And the end result is a combination of notes that create a melody that evokes a particular mood and that determines the time of day it is suitable for! Like wow!


I've probably done a very rudimentary job of explaining but yeah, there you have it. The absolutely amazing musical framework that Indian songs are based on: A raag!


While raags maybe easier to identify when listening to Classical music since they are in their 'purest' forms, they continue to be an endless source of inspiration for film music - though much harder to identify and fix imo since they are rarely used in their purest forms. There is usually some 'mixing' in of non-raag elements or notational deviations or mixing of 2-3 different raags (what we call Raagamalika in which different portions of a song are based on different raags.)


There are some favorite filmi raags though & you'll find dozens of songs based on them - Yaman, Bhairavi, Sivaranjani, Pilu.. There's a standing joke in my family that when you cannot identify a raag in a film song and you know it's based off of one for sure, then it's probably Pilu! smiley36 (Or Bilawal in my case! smiley39)


Anyways, enough lecturebaazi but I just wanted to say a bit of raags and their derivation.


Moving on to filmi songs based on raags - most of them that have Indian roots are. But like I said earlier, it can be hard to pinpoint because film music composers are not restrained by the rigid framework of the raags and take many liberties which ends up 'diluting' a raag and therefore becomes much more difficult to identify.


I usually have a few 'textbook' songs as perfect examples of a particular raag and will usually 'refer' to them in my head while listening to a piece to determine if a song 'matches' it. That remains my method for identifying raags but it's definitely not foolproof. For eg. I would have never identified the song Tannu posted: "Kannalane (Kehna hi kya) as Bageshri when you compare it with the other Bageshri example that Madhu posted (Aaja re pardesi) or my textbook Bageshri examples (Radha na bole / Jaag dard-e-ishq).

So yeah, what do I know? smiley13



I thought I'd post some of my favorite raagams and then post songs based off of them. I'll try and post a faithful (textbook) example and others that are not as faithful but are still great songs (or my favorites).


Madhu, you posted the absolutely stunning Jyoti Kalash Chalke from Bhabhi ki Choodiyan which remains my favorite example of Raag Bhoopali. I rarely feel this way but Sudhir Phadke's rendition of this song is possibly even more beautiful than Lata's. smiley19


Bhoopali is derived from Kalyan thaat and is said to be closely related to another raag, Deshkar (Sayonara from Love in Tokyo is mentioned as an example of this raag - yeah idk how to distinguish) which is derived from Bilawal thaat (yeah don't ask me how the Math works here!)


Here's another song in Raag Bhoopali that I absolutely love (it simply oozes divinity smiley19)and uphold as a textbook example of this raag.


Ghanashyam Sundara Shreedhara (Marathi)

Film: Amar Bhoopali (1951)

Music: Vasant Desai

Lyrics: Kavi Honaji Bala

Singers: Panditrao Nagarkar, Lata Mangeshkar


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpBqoVVYyYw

Edited by LizzieBennet - 1 years ago
LizzieBennet thumbnail

Classical Connoisseurs

Posted: 1 years ago
#23

And here's an example of Raagam Mohanam (the Carnatic equivalent of Bhoopali) in which Ilaiyaraja takes some liberties but mostly stays true to the format of the raag. Incidentally, the Ninnukori Varnam that the lyrics refer to is a famous 'Varnam' (a genre in Carnatic music) that all music students usually learn.


Raagam: Mohanam (derivative of Harikamboji, 28th Melakarta)

Song: Ninnukori Varanam (Tamil)

Film: Agninatchatiram (1988)

Music: Ilaiya Raja

Lyrics: Vaali

Singer: K.S. Chithra


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwLl8GgIpB8

Edited by LizzieBennet - 1 years ago
LizzieBennet thumbnail

Classical Connoisseurs

Posted: 1 years ago
#24

Yaman (Kalyan thaat) is one of the most popular filmi raags. And I say this with confidence from the sheer number of Yaman songs there are!

How to pick?


You already posted Mausam hai aashiqana, so let me post this one.


Song: Nukta Cheen hai

Film: Mirza Ghalib (1954)

Music: Ghulam Mohammad

Lyrics: Mirza Ghalib

Singer: Suraiya


https://youtu.be/TK56_CysG7g?feature=shared


Ahh there are too many Yaman songs I love


Song: Mann re tu kahe na dheer dhare

Film: Chitralekha (1964)

Music: Roshan

Lyrics: Sahir Ludhianvi

Singer: Mohammed Rafi


https://youtu.be/ES5yOtqQGks?feature=shared

Edited by LizzieBennet - 1 years ago
LizzieBennet thumbnail

Classical Connoisseurs

Posted: 1 years ago
#25

I cannot tell the difference between Yaman, Kalyan and YamanKalyan.

This song is said to be Yaman Kalyan but it sounds just like Yaman to me! (Hey, what do I know? smiley36)


Raag: Yaman Kalyan? Or is it Yaman?

Song: Rasik Balma

Film: Chori Chori (1956)

Music: Shankar Jaikishen

Lyrics: Hasrat Jaipuri

Singer: Lata Mangeshkar


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H60p98mmbSo


Raag: Yaman

Song: Aye Hairathe aashiqui

Film: Guru (2007)

Music: A.R. Rahman

Lyrics: Gulzar

Singers: Hariharan, Alka Yagnik


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywRFnGK0z5Y

Edited by LizzieBennet - 1 years ago
1215019 thumbnail
Posted: 1 years ago
#26

Durga, who lives in Belgaum, sings this Marathi song in Rāga Malhāra as the season's first rainfall excites her eagerness to meet Aravind, her fiancé from Mumbai, and leave her world for his.


Song: Āza Kuṇītarī Yāve

Singer: Asha Bhosle, Prarthana Patwardhan Sathe, Sampada Goswami

Movie: Mumbaīçā Zāṃvaī (1970)

Actor: Surekha (Parkar)

Lyricist: Gajanan Digambar Madgulkar

Music: Sudhir Phadke


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WrwJTgUw5Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSu6jeNa9Vg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaNu2jZcHiM


Lyrics

आज कुणीतरी यावे

ओळखीचे व्हावे

Āza kuṇītarī yāve

Oḷakhīçe vhāve

Today, someone should come

Become acquainted


जशी अचानक या धरणीवर

गर्जत आली वळवाची सर

तसे तयाने गावे

Zaśī acānaka yā dharaṇīvara

Garzata ālī vaḷavācī sara

Tase tayāne gāve

As unexpectedly as on this land

The monsoon torrent came roaring

So he should sing!


विचारल्याविण हेतु कळावा

त्याचा माझा स्नेह जुळावा

हाती हात धरावे

Vicāralyāviṇa hetu kaḷāvā

Tyāçā māzhā sneha zuḷāvā

Hātī hāta dharāve

Unasked, his purpose I should understand

His and my affection should match

In his hands my hands he should hold!


सोडुनिया घर नातीगोती

निघून जावे तयासंगती

कुठे तेही ना ठावे

Soḍuniyā ghara nātī-gotī

Nighūna zāve tayāsaṃgatī

Kuṭhe tehī nā ṭhāve

Leaving my home, relations and identites

I should set off in his company

Where? Even that I shouldn't know!

LizzieBennet thumbnail

Classical Connoisseurs

Posted: 1 years ago
#27

And here's the Carnatic equivalent of Yaman, Kalyani (65th Melakarta raaga)


Again, there are plenty of filmi songs in Kalyani.

Posting two of my favorites


Yamunai aatrile (Tamil)

Film: Thalapathi (1991)

Music: Ilaiya Raja

Lyrics: Vaali

Singer: Mithali Banerjee Bhowmick


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV8Wpnpm_lg


Kalaivaaniye (Tamil)

This song is sung without the avarohanam. This is a pretty faithful Kalyani rendition otherwise- the way Carnatic musicians sing it.

Film: Sindhu Bhairavi (1985) (This entire soundtrack is GOLD smiley10)

Music: Ilaiya Raja

Lyrics: Vaali

Singer: Yesudas



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLYuZU_AHPo

Edited by LizzieBennet - 1 years ago
1215019 thumbnail
Posted: 1 years ago
#28

Originally posted by: LizzieBennet

Bhoopali is derived from Kalyan thaat and is said to be closely related to another raag, Deshkar (Sayonara from Love in Tokyo is mentioned as an example of this raag - yeah idk how to distinguish) which is derived from Bilawal thaat (yeah don't ask me how the Math works here!)


Here's another song in Raag Bhoopali that I absolutely love (it simply oozes divinity smiley19)and uphold as a textbook example of this raag.


Ghanashyam Sundara Shreedhara (Marathi)

Film: Amar Bhoopali (1951)

Music: Vasant Desai

Lyrics: Kavi Honaji Bala

Singers: Panditrao Nagarkar, Lata Mangeshkar


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpBqoVVYyYw

Ghanaśyāma Sundarā Śrīdharā lyrics here:

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/163601279


I am not a student of music, but here's an in-depth explanation of the difference between Bhūpālī and Deśakāra. In my field of genetics, we would say that they're not closely related by nature, but they have similar attributes due to convergent evolution.


My untrained ear can't tell the difference between Yamana and Yamana-Kalyāṇa either, but I remember a singer telling me once that Yamana has tīvra Ma and Yamana-Kalyāṇa has both tīvra Ma and śuddha Ma. You probably know that already, but I'm saying it for whoever didn't know.

LizzieBennet thumbnail

Classical Connoisseurs

Posted: 1 years ago
#29

Raag Bhairav (Thaat raag)


Tannu already posted Jaago Mohan pyare but this song, to me, is the textbook example of Raag Bhairav.


Mohe bhool gaye saawariya

Film: Baiju Bawra (1952) - I will probably end up posting pretty much all the songs from this movie because they're all based on raags and are all perfect examples (at least imo). Not this one. There is an argument that this one is mixed or has more shades of Kalingada. But since Bhairav and Kalingada are pretty similar this seems more a point of contention for purists. I keep this song in mind as Bhairav.

Music: Naushad

Lyrics: Shakeel Badayuni

Singer: Lata Mangeshkar


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsxun4s9l-8



Another song in Bhairav I quite like:


Ek rut aaye, ek rut jaaye

Film: Gautam Govinda (1979)

Music: Laxmikant Pyarelal

Lyrics: Anand Bakshi

Singer: Kishore Kumar


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rel4AwzxyTA

Edited by LizzieBennet - 1 years ago
LizzieBennet thumbnail

Classical Connoisseurs

Posted: 1 years ago
#30

Here's the Carnatic equivalent of Bhairav, Mayamalavagowla (15th Melakarta).

Incidentally, this is the raagam in which Carnatic music students learn the elementary swara structures.


I have always found Bhairav & Mayamalavagowla to be gambheer, melancholic raagams but see what Ilaiya Raja (genius man smiley10) does with this! That intermittent humming in the stanzas! Ahh! What a song!


Poonkadhave (Tamil)

Film: Nizhalgal (1980)

Music: Ilaiya Raja

Lyrics: Gangai Amaran

Singers: Deepan Chakravarthy, Uma Ramanan


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mccm7TcIKgk



Yamaho ni yama yama (Telugu)

Film: Jagadeka Veerudu Athiloka Sundari (1990)

Music: Ilaiya Raja

Lyrics: Veturi

Singers: S.P. Balasubramaniam, S. Janaki


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3GUz_RHqHM


Sollayo Sollaikili (Tamil) [Remade in Hindi as Sunta hai mera Khuda from Pukar]

Film: Alli Arjuna (2002)

Music: A.R. Rahman

Lyrics: Vairamuthu

Singers: S.P. Balasubramaniam, Swarnalatha


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDzFFHdEoEA

Edited by LizzieBennet - 1 years ago
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