Imtiaz Ali and the manic pixie dream girl - Page 2

Originally posted by: Clochette

Of course we can agree to disagree. Still there is the fact that the movie had a remarkable succes in Western countries in comparison to India.

Didn't you notice that Harry put his own feelings aside to make Sejal a stronger character??? And although he was a womanizer and avoided commitment, he didn't flirt with Sejal as he very well sensed that she wasn't comfortable at all about herself.

Again all that was about his desire to have her physically. She was the one woman he could not have so he finds his emotional core. I know the primary verdict of the movie was it flopped. I don't know about western audiences but from what I have heard people got bored of hearing the same story. She basically forces Shahrukh on a travel journey with her like Geet. And through that, he is a changed man. No longer a womanizer.

Many argue even Geet to some extent was a manic pixie dream girl.

Jab Harry Met Sejal did dismal business at the box office in India, as well as internationally

https://www.indiatoday.in/movies/bollywood/story/shah-rukh-khan-i-let-people-down-with-jab-harry-met-sejal-it-was-an-utter-flop-1389659-2018-11-16

https://www.mensxp.com/entertainment/bollywood/92348-manic-pixie-dream-girls-in-bollywood-deepika-padukone-katrina-kaif-others.html

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Originally posted by: Grumpydwarf24

Again all that was about his desire to have her physically. She was the one woman he could not have so he finds his emotional core. I know the primary verdict of the movie was it flopped. I don't know about western audiences but from what I have heard people got bored of hearing the same story. She basically forces Shahrukh on a travel journey with her like Geet. And through that, he is a changed man. No longer a womanizer.

Many argue even Geet to some extent was a manic pixie dream girl.

Wrong...as in Lisbon she wanted to make love and he decided to not give in to his own desire. He does find his emotional core...in India, in his hometown...being together with Sejal.

No, in my opinion the journey wasn't like the one Aditya had with Geet. Sejal was desperate at the beginning and didn't know anyone else in The Netherlands than Harry...her adventurous mind came later because of the freedom she felt...she felt safe with Harry because of his profession but herself, she is quite immature (yet!). The more she enjoys her freedom of expression being with Harry the more the search for the ring becomes a pretexte (in Lisbon - where she finds the ring - and in Frankfort, there aren't 'ringforms' anymore)...she even rejects Harry's denial to ask her to stay with him.

I find it a quite balanced movie...

And Harry isn't suicidal, only lonely and with low self-esteem. He also has a very dear friend in Mayank.

I didn't read the article as I don't want to consent to the cookies/ads and don't want to go through all the options to reject those with "legitimate interest".

Originally posted by: Clochette

Wrong...as in Lisbon she wanted to make love and he decided to not give in to his own desire. He does find his emotional core...in India, in his hometown...being together with Sejal.

No, in my opinion the journey wasn't like the one Aditya had with Geet. Sejal was desperate at the beginning and didn't know anyone else in The Netherlands than Harry...her adventurous mind came later because of the freedom she felt...she felt safe with Harry because of his profession but herself, she is quite immature (yet!). The more she enjoys her freedom of expression being with Harry the more the search for the ring becomes a pretexte (in Lisbon - where she finds the ring - and in Frankfort, there aren't 'ringforms' anymore)...she even rejects Harry's denial to ask her to stay with him.

I find it a quite balanced movie...

And Harry isn't suicidal, only lonely and with low self-esteem. He also has a very dear friend in Mayank.

I didn't read the article as I don't want to consent to the cookies/ads and don't want to go through all the options to reject those with "legitimate interest".

That was the start of him finding his emotional core. He probably did not completely find it until he reached India. Once again a transformation is a journey that happens in bits and pieces.

Even Geet was desperate in the beginning. She was alone in a Mumbai station without money. And there were all sorts of men eyeing her. She went to Aditya to save herself as she could guilt shame him into believing he was responsible for her condition.

Again I am not sure if Aditya was suicidal? Was he? A manic pixie dream girl helps a man evolve. He can be a lonely man like Harry. A depressed man like Aditya. An unsuccessful and unmotivated man like Jordan. She is there to help him become a better man in any way.

Immaturity, bubbliness, quirkiness, and the enjoyment of freedom of expression are the hallmarks of a manic pixie dream girl.

If you do read my article, the second one does not mention Sejal but it does say.

Critic Nathan described it as “that bubbly, shallow cinematic creature that exists solely in the fevered imaginations of sensitive writer-directors to teach broodingly soulful young men to embrace life and its infinite mysteries and adventures.” In Bollywood, directors have used bubbly and chirpy female characters in their narratives that were full of life but when you understand the movie in-depth, you are disgusted by the fact that these female characters were just used as subjects of drawing your attention to the male character’s sad life and his issues so that you are sympathetic towards them.

Immaturity probably would be the reason women do not get to have their own story, and journey and can only be a part of men's. It would imply that they need men.

I definitely agree about tamasha, we hardly knew anything about tara as an individual, she was just there as a catalyst for ved to get the courage to be himself. We knew nothing about her family or life, the whole story was about ved

Notice that whenever Imtiaz does something remotely different from the damaged man and manic pixie dream girl he has to either take inspiration from real life, for example, Chamkila. Love Aajkal sounded a lot like the romantic Nicholas Sparks book I read. Obsessed with reading romantic books.

Originally posted by: Grumpydwarf24

That was the start of him finding his emotional core. He probably did not completely find it until he reached India. Once again a transformation is a journey that happens in bits and pieces.

Even Geet was desperate in the beginning. She was alone in a Mumbai station without money. And there were all sorts of men eyeing her. She went to Aditya to save herself as she could guilt shame him into believing he was responsible for her condition.

Again I am not sure if Aditya was suicidal? Was he? A manic pixie dream girl helps a man evolve. He can be a lonely man like Harry. A depressed man like Aditya. An unsuccessful and unmotivated man like Jordan. She is there to help become a better man in any way.

Immaturity, bubbliness, quirkiness, and the enjoyment of freedom of expression are the hallmarks of a manic pixie dream girl.

If you do read my article, the second one does not mention Sejal but it does say.

Critic Nathan described it as “that bubbly, shallow cinematic creature that exists solely in the fevered imaginations of sensitive writer-directors to teach broodingly soulful young men to embrace life and its infinite mysteries and adventures.” In Bollywood, directors have used bubbly and chirpy female characters in their narratives that were full of life but when you understand the movie in-depth, you are disgusted by the fact that these female characters were just used as subjects of drawing your attention to the male character’s sad life and his issues so that you are sympathetic towards them.

Immaturity probably would be the reason women do not get to have their own story, and journey and can only be a part of men's. It would imply that they need men.

bold: Thanks for elaborating a bit more about the MPDG...and I agree, Sejal s e e m s to be that girl (Geeta definitely is).

JHMS is more Sejal's story and evolvement...Harry's only self-worth is the knowledge he has of the places shown to the tourists... Sejal's only self-worth is that of having studied law...so, both have only self-worth in their professional field, not on the emotional and personality level.

Sejal leaves Europe with both the latter... Harry has gained nothing and even has lost his professional self-worth...It needs his friend's prep-talk to master the courage to fly to India. (Imtiaz even had planned Harry's suicide at the end...imagine that!)

Originally posted by: zara321

I definitely agree about tamasha, we hardly knew anything about tara as an individual, she was just there as a catalyst for ved to get the courage to be himself. We knew nothing about her family or life, the whole story was about ved

Tamasha was so problematic. There is no debating that Tara was a manic pixie dream girl. But apart from that Ved takes her rejection so poorly. It was almost how dare she think she had the right to reject him? His screaming and going nuts on her twice afterwards might have been his evolution but many felt it looked like abuse for Tara.

Also, the question would be how can a successful and beautiful girl like Tara not get over a guy for four years? If she liked the adventurous side of him then she could have found that quality in many men.

Originally posted by: Clochette

bold: Thanks for elaborating a bit more about the MPDG...and I agree, Sejal s e e m s to be that girl (Geeta definitely is).

JHMS is more Sejal's story and evolvement...Harry's only self-worth is the knowledge he has of the places shown to the tourists... Sejal's only self-worth is that of having studied law...so, both have only self-worth in their professional field, not on the emotional and personality level.

Sejal leaves Europe with both the latter... Harry has gained nothing and even has lost his professional self-worth...It needs his friend's prep-talk to master the courage to fly to India. (Imtiaz even had planned Harry's suicide at the end...imagine that!)

It does not have to be about professional evolution. Like I said going from a womanizer to a man who finds his emotional core is a far more in-depth journey. Then becoming slightly more secure of yourself.