Electoral Bonds v/s Kejriwal Arrest

They may seem like unrelated issues but I want to draw some parallels between them.

Arvind Kejriwal has been called the Kingpin of Liquor scam. He's been called the key conspirator and AAP has been accused of money laundering. This is based on the info that 45 crores have been used by the party for their election campaigns in 2022. The money trail has been shown to be linked to BJP too but that has been brushed aside.

This is in sharp contrast to what's going on with the Electoral bonds. The act was brought in by BJP to eradicate Balck money and Supreme Court has called it unconstitutional. The total funds were around 17k crores and BJP got around 8k crores. And the amount is significant but what's troubling is the chronology. Bonds of BJP were bought by companies whenever ED conducted a raid and there's been no discussion about this forget an investigation.

Scams of previous govts are constantly brought up by the current govt but at least those scams were out in the open and we are able to discuss about them. Electoral bonds news has hardly made news and that is worrisome.

Germany spoke about Kejriwal's arrest and said he should get a fair trial given that India is a democratic country. There's been a harsh rebuttal to that too from our side asking Germany to stay away from our internal issues.

When countries start reminding us that we are a democratic country, it's time to introspect.

When the opposition is being completely shut down, it's again time to think about the state of democracy.

I hope you understand the difference between kickback and a donation. Electoral bonds money of 6000 crores is white money. Tax due on it has been paid by the company giving the donation. A auditor verified paper trail exists of this money's origin. The bonds were available for anyone to buy for any denomination starting Rs. 1000 after providing their PAN or company TIN. Most importantly the person/company donating the money declared himself and his financial information to SBI before donating.  

There is no illegality as far as the source of money is concerned in electoral bonds.

If BJP being in power chose to do favours to the donors after recieving donations then that needs to investigated, which would fall under the ambit of CBI you can file a FIR with the police on that or file a petition in courts to order CBI to investigate, as BJP is not going to investigate itself.

What kejriwal recieved was black money for which no tax was paid.

The licenses were given to liquor shops after recieving black money and that money has been traced all the way to Arvind Kejriwal, further it has been traced to have been used to fund elections in Goa. The liquor shops were used as a money laundering device and a part of the commission for changing black oney to white thru fake liquor sales was paid to AAP office bearers (Manish Sisodia). Bribes were given to get licenses for the liquor shops and make policy changes for improving sales during COVID and it's after math. This falls under purview of Enforcement Directorate and they were ordered to investigate after one of the bureaucrats in Delhi government alerted L.Governer of Delhi about the scam.

All this is there in the public domain. In case of Electoral bonds there is a white money donation and accusations of doing favours. Whereas for Liquor Scam there is actually a Delhi High court monitored investigation going on for last two years by Enforcement Directorate and CBI and Arvind is one of the last people to get arrested.

I think Sidelove's point about ED raids being followed by donations is significant.  Essentially, it has the appearance of a shakedown, even if the BJP didn't openly indulge in it.  Maybe it's time to look at regulations and what exactly triggers ED activity.  ED should be a police: going after actual  crimes, not looking for crimes to prosecute, & thereby seem busy.  If there is no lawbreaking going on, fine, that doesn't imply that ED should then not exist!

I do think it's ridiculous to quantify the relative levels of corruption b/w parties.  Fact remains that there is too much of red tape that necessitates it in the first place.  Get rid of that and give the political parties just 1 job - governing their states or the country.  But minimize the levels at which they can use the police.  Real problem in India is a fusion of executive & legislature: maybe those 2 arms of government need to be separated

Originally posted by: Chiillii

I hope you understand the difference between kickback and a donation. Electoral bonds money of 6000 crores is white money. Tax due on it has been paid by the company giving the donation. A auditor verified paper trail exists of this money's origin. The bonds were available for anyone to buy for any denomination starting Rs. 1000 after providing their PAN or company TIN. Most importantly the person/company donating the money declared himself and his financial information to SBI before donating.  

There is no illegality as far as the source of money is concerned in electoral bonds.

If BJP being in power chose to do favours to the donors after recieving donations then that needs to investigated, which would fall under the ambit of CBI you can file a FIR with the police on that or file a petition in courts to order CBI to investigate, as BJP is not going to investigate itself.

What kejriwal recieved was black money for which no tax was paid.

The licenses were given to liquor shops after recieving black money and that money has been traced all the way to Arvind Kejriwal, further it has been traced to have been used to fund elections in Goa. The liquor shops were used as a money laundering device and a part of the commission for changing black oney to white thru fake liquor sales was paid to AAP office bearers (Manish Sisodia). Bribes were given to get licenses for the liquor shops and make policy changes for improving sales during COVID and it's after math. This falls under purview of Enforcement Directorate and they were ordered to investigate after one of the bureaucrats in Delhi government alerted L.Governer of Delhi about the scam.

All this is there in the public domain. In case of Electoral bonds there is a white money donation and accusations of doing favours. Whereas for Liquor Scam there is actually a Delhi High court monitored investigation going on for last two years by Enforcement Directorate and CBI and Arvind is one of the last people to get arrested.

If a company gives 10 times or 100 times of its profit as donation then it becomes something else. Some companies names have never been heard of before who have given a lot of money and have "parent" companies which are large conglomerates then that becomes questionable.

Is this just simply legitimizing black money? Because electoral bonds is not the only way to donate. Cash transactions were not banned so those were still continued which are unaccounted for. If the sole purpose was to remove black money, best way would have been to stop cash transactions. When that is not done, the intentions of bringing in Electoral bonds come into question.

Megha Engineering bought bonds and within a single month won a big contract. But ED also stopped the raids on companies that were under the scanner and who later decided to donate. So, it's a complex web.

The point of mentioning the liquor scam is how a chief minister has been arrested and quickly called a Kingpin and on the other side we have a scam that's out in the open with no questions at all.

Originally posted by: Vr15h

I think Sidelove's point about ED raids being followed by donations is significant.  Essentially, it has the appearance of a shakedown, even if the BJP didn't openly indulge in it.  Maybe it's time to look at regulations and what exactly triggers ED activity.  ED should be a police: going after actual  crimes, not looking for crimes to prosecute, & thereby seem busy.  If there is no lawbreaking going on, fine, that doesn't imply that ED should then not exist!

I do think it's ridiculous to quantify the relative levels of corruption b/w parties.  Fact remains that there is too much of red tape that necessitates it in the first place.  Get rid of that and give the political parties just 1 job - governing their states or the country.  But minimize the levels at which they can use the police.  Real problem in India is a fusion of executive & legislature: maybe those 2 arms of government need to be separated

ED raids have increased 27 fold from 112 (2004 to 2014) to 3500 (2014-2024) which is a huge jump. There has to be a regulation about how they go about conducting these raids. How many are legitimate? How many cases have been dropped? How many have led to prosecution?

If a company gives 10 times or 100 times of its profit as donation then it becomes something else. Some companies names have never been heard of before who have given a lot of money and have "parent" companies which are large conglomerates then that becomes questionable.

That is the advantage of Electoral Bonds. SBI has the names of the company that donated. Now the list is public people can see whether it is 10 times or 100 times the profit of the company. They can also see who the parent companies are. So there is a trail to know who actually donated to whom. 

Is this just simply legitimizing black money?

Black money cannot be donated with a paper trail like above. Black needs to be laundered with the detergent of corruption to make it white. Which is what the liquor shops were doing in Delhi by showing fake sales. Which is what kejriwal has been accused of doing

 Because electoral bonds is not the only way to donate. Cash transactions were not banned so those were still continued which are unaccounted for. If the sole purpose was to remove black money, best way would have been to stop cash transactions. When that is not done, the intentions of bringing in Electoral bonds come into question.

Black money is unaccounted money, no one knows who got it from whom and when and unless ED and IT raids happen this cash cannot be confiscated, or stopped. Government can only reduce generation of black money. It cannot prevent circulation as long as it exists. .eg. earlier local kirana shops to big jewellery stores would buy and sell in cash and no one would maintain records. Government has already done 3 things to stop it and they are bearing results. It is slow but happening. 1. Mandatory PAN for shops for a single transaction above 50000. 2. UPI based payments like phone pay Google pay and Paytm 3. GST. 

Megha Engineering bought bonds and within a single month won a big contract. But ED also stopped the raids on companies that were under the scanner and who later decided to donate. So, it's a complex web.

The point of mentioning the liquor scam is how a chief minister has been arrested and quickly called a Kingpin and on the other side we have a scam that's out in the open with no questions at all.

Chief minister has been arrested in due course of a court monitored 2 year investigation. Electoral bonds became.public a week ago. You are asking questions here so are others. Soon enough other political parties or public service NGOs would file writ petition in courts for investigation. 

One Thing though ED or CBI don't work on their own. Someone needs to direct them to start or stop investigations. It is mostly the government, sometimes governors as in the case of Delhi liquor scam who ordered investigation, it can also be Courts (High Court and Supreme Court). All of them have the power to do it.. 

Originally posted by: Chiillii

That is the advantage of Electoral Bonds. SBI has the names of the company that donated. Now the list is public people can see whether it is 10 times or 100 times the profit of the company. They can also see who the parent companies are. So there is a trail to know who actually donated to whom. 

Yes the list is public but every attempt is being made to either brush this under the carpet or trivialize it. Some people are aware of the entire list, it's problematic transactions, enormity of the potential scam but many are not aware because print media/ news channels have chosen to downplay the issue.

So, the transparency is moot point.

Chief minister has been arrested in due course of a court monitored 2 year investigation. Electoral bonds became.public a week ago. You are asking questions here so are others. Soon enough other political parties or public service NGOs would file writ petition in courts for investigation. 

2 year duration of the investigation doesn't add authenticity or provide validation to it. Like someone posted on this topic that Aurobindo Pharma which is a part of the liquor scam, has bought electoral bonds of BJP. Will that angle be investigated? I highly doubt it. The timing of the arrest is crucial. Manish Sisodia is stuck in jail without bail and ED cases are becoming notorious because of this. It's not about being innocent until proven guilty or getting questioned and getting released on bail and then the case going on for years..people are getting stuck in jail for years.

One Thing though ED or CBI don't work on their own. Someone needs to direct them to start or stop investigations. It is mostly the government, sometimes governors as in the case of Delhi liquor scam who ordered investigation, it can also be Courts (High Court and Supreme Court). All of them have the power to do it.. 

Agree. ED/CBI do not work on their own. Weaponizing these agencies has become problematic. 

Originally posted by: rapaki

Delhi Liquor Case Approver's Firm Gave 34 Crore Via Electoral Bonds to BJP

Aurobindo Pharma's director, Sarath Reddy, was arrested in connection with the Delhi liquor policy case in 2022.

Five days after P Sarath Reddy, the director of Aurobindo Pharma was arrested by the Enforcement Directorate (ED), the company donated electoral bonds worth Rs 5 crore to the BJP. This revelation has emerged after the State Bank of India (SBI) submitted the unique bond number data to the Election Commission of India (ECI) on Thursday. The Quint had earlier reported that on 10 November 2022, ED arrested Reddy in connection with its money laundering case into alleged irregularities in the Delhi government’s liquor policy. Five days later, on 15 November, Aurobindo Pharma donated electoral bonds worth Rs 5 crore. With the new data out now, it’s confirmed that this Rs 5 crore went to the BJP. Incidentally, this revelation comes on the same day that the ED has placed Delhi CM Arvind Kejriwal under arrest in the same Delhi liquor policy case.

Months after this donation, in May 2023, the Delhi High Court granted bail to Reddy on medical grounds. A month later, in June 2023, the ED moved a plea before the court to pardon Reddy, and for him to be made an ‘approver’ in the case— meaning that he would voluntarily disclose all the irregularities in the policy. The Rouse Avenue court accepted the plea.

Aurobindo Pharma's Connection With Delhi Liquor Policy

 According to the ED, Reddy was a part of the "South Group" that had allegedly paid Rs 100 crore to the AAP, which was used to fund its Goa elections. The ED had told the court that Reddy was “one of the kingpins” and a “major beneficiary of the cartelisation” whose cartel group “controlled 30 percent of Delhi's liquor market”. Delhi Deputy Chief Minister Manish Sisodia is one of the primary accused in the case, and has been in jail since February 2023.

Thanks for sharing this. So, ED called Sarath Reddy the "kingpin" back then and arrested him. After 5 days, this guy bought BJP electoral bonds and suddenly ED made him approver and he got bail. 

Perhaps, Manish Sisodia should have done this too. He would have gotten bail at least. And now interestingly, Delhi Chief Minister is being called "kingpin".  We can see where this is going.

Well there is no connection between these two things so I don't understand the comparison.

Plus Electoral bonds are anonymous donation while govt policies are well planned.

You don't know which company is giving you their money to show your support but you know which company will give you money if you support their policies.

Electoral bonds are not limited to a specific party and beneficial to one person or party while deliberately tampering a policy is beneficial to a company or a party.

In Electoral bonds your manifestation and ideology fetch you some money and not your policies. Companies give donation to someone they thinks can maintain the stability and create a healthy environment so their business can flourish. And Donations aren't a form of corruption cause if it is then Kejriwal and Aap has one more case coming their way, they collected hundred of crores in the name of donation from NGOs (International to be specific).

I may understand your points and concern but what I failed to understand is making it something which it is not, Govt should make policies which can benefit businesses in the state and It's their duty and one of the reason behind their formation but using that policies, their work, to suit their interest and to come in power is what is wrong here and Electoral bonds aren't doing it, there is a clear difference between these two things, even though I don't support some or may be most of the provision of Electoral bonds but this in no way tampers the policies of govt

Originally posted by: sidnilove

They may seem like unrelated issues but I want to draw some parallels between them.

Arvind Kejriwal has been called the Kingpin of Liquor scam. He's been called the key conspirator and AAP has been accused of money laundering. This is based on the info that 45 crores have been used by the party for their election campaigns in 2022. The money trail has been shown to be linked to BJP too but that has been brushed aside.

This is in sharp contrast to what's going on with the Electoral bonds. The act was brought in by BJP to eradicate Balck money and Supreme Court has called it unconstitutional. The total funds were around 17k crores and BJP got around 8k crores. And the amount is significant but what's troubling is the chronology. Bonds of BJP were bought by companies whenever ED conducted a raid and there's been no discussion about this forget an investigation.

Scams of previous govts are constantly brought up by the current govt but at least those scams were out in the open and we are able to discuss about them. Electoral bonds news has hardly made news and that is worrisome.

Germany spoke about Kejriwal's arrest and said he should get a fair trial given that India is a democratic country. There's been a harsh rebuttal to that too from our side asking Germany to stay away from our internal issues.

When countries start reminding us that we are a democratic country, it's time to introspect.

When the opposition is being completely shut down, it's again time to think about the state of democracy.

& this isn't happening?

Last I saw it was Kejri who ignored 9 summons and was snooping around ED investigation. 

No we don't give gyaan to the countries how they deal with their internal matters, so no one else nonsense will be entertained. 

Also Sisodia's bail application is being rejected by Court, I didn't knew Court too was in BJP's favour.