Rani ruins another roundtable - Page 8

Originally posted by: Clochette

Sadly... all the lobbying (and money spent) brought them an Oscar exactly for  t h a t...a song&dance

Exactly. Therein lies the irony. It's only these elite Indians who've I've seen that are embarrassed of their own identity, culture, food, etc. Such a shame.

Originally posted by: Filmistan

Bollywood and Indian Cinema crave Western validation. Those interviews RRR team gave during Oscar season was embarrassing. Instead of standing firm and taking pride in India's own cinematic aesthetic, they wanted to fit in the Western mould so bad. They were worshipping Hollywood and the Oscars.

Iranian Cinema is accepted in the West because most filmmakers there cater to European sensibility. South Korean cinema is accepted in the West as S.Korea is basically an American vassal.

Everytime someone mentions Indian Cinema, Westerners comment about the song and dance. And, Indian filmmakers start blushing—talking about it like it's wrong.

There was a time when KJo tried chumming up with these Europe-obsessed Indian filmmakers. But good for him, he realized the type of cinema he wanted to make. And, this is a total anglophile KJo we're talking about who even wanted half-white kids.

You just observe the likes of Masand and Anupama. Whenever talking about or interviewing a star or a filmmaker from the West, they're so giddy.

India has enough muscle to create an ecosphere of cinema for the global south. But filmmakers, journalists, and all here are so obsessed with Western validation. Bollywood starkids pride themselves on the fact that they can't speak fluent Hindi!

Martin Scorsese has always talked about his Catholic roots and how it has influenced his filmmaking. But God forbid, a Rajamouli, he has to make sure that he lets them know that he's not a Hindu, he's a secular, when promoting his movie in the West.

This absurd inferiority complex amongst the elites of Indian Cinema is quite baffling. Forever the colonized attitude.

Amaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazing how you went from criticising RRR team for not taking pride in Indian aesthetics and invalidated two other none-Western film cultures in the same breath.

Also amazing how this post ended up pivoting to how secularism is somehow not-taking-pride-in-India. As if an Indian cannot truthfully be secular lol 

You do know art is not bounded within countries, right?

Scorsese has many times cited Satyajit Ray as one of his filmmaking idols.

Who did make films against religious dogma.

Here :

https://m.hindustantimes.com/hollywood/my-interactions-with-satyajit-ray-are-memories-i-treasure-martin-scorsese/story-6ymvJsj6ZlRIV4gts5RFGK.html

Now people are being shamed for recommending art lol

Originally posted by: Blueeeee

Amaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazing how you went from criticising RRR team for not taking pride in Indian aesthetics and invalidated two other none-Western film cultures in the same breath.

Also amazing how this post ended up pivoting to how secularism is somehow not-taking-pride-in-India. As if an Indian cannot truthfully be secular lol 

You do know art is not bounded within countries, right?

Scorsese has many times cited Satyajit Ray as one of his filmmaking idols.

Who did make films against religious dogma.

Here :

https://m.hindustantimes.com/hollywood/my-interactions-with-satyajit-ray-are-memories-i-treasure-martin-scorsese/story-6ymvJsj6ZlRIV4gts5RFGK.html

Now people are being shamed for recommending art lol

That's okay. You didn't really understand what I was working at. Good day.

I think Rani should strongly consider joining politics in the future. She will fit well with her attitude of best in the world, and no improvement needed

Edited by Petrichor80 - 6 months ago

Originally posted by: Filmistan

Exactly. Therein lies the irony. It's only these elite Indians who've I've seen that are embarrassed of their own identity, culture, food, etc. Such a shame.

Maybe our specialty is song and dance. We havent managed to go above it. Even if we have it might have been in few movies which obviously got unnoticed 

Edited by falsePromise - 6 months ago

Originally posted by: falsePromise

Maybe our specialty is song and dance. We havent managed to go above it. Even if we have it might have been in few movies which obviously got unnoticed 

We don't need to go above it. India is a huge country, with tremendous diversity, cultures, languages, religions, etc. It's about embracing it all and presenting Indian content than catering to the West.

American Cinema has tried penetrating into Indian markets for over two decades. But they haven't been as successful as elsewhere 'coz India has its own dynamic cinema culture. It's only China and India, amongst larger markets, where Hollywood/Americans haven't managed to get a foothold.

Singing, dancing, etc. is intrinsically part of our narrative origin, which is the Natyashashtra. My proposal is that we should highlight our own culture and idiosyncrasies than try and chummy up with what West expects of us. They'd ride the boat sooner than we presume if we held firm with our own aesthetics.

Originally posted by: Filmistan

That's okay. You didn't really understand what I was working at. Good day.

 

I did. Indian filmmakers who do have enough money to lobby for oscars do appeal to orientalism. That is decidely opposite of shirking Indian aesthetics. Rather they caricaturise Indian life.

No one in their right mind will say Korean cinema or Iranian cinema as catering to Western validation. Especially if you actually consider the history of the former.

Japan has most numbers of Oscars. No one would say Ozū or Akira were catering to western aesthetics. Again if you just consider Japan's history.

Irish Catholics are a minoritised group in the US. For the longest, shitheads like KKK were targetting them. They have had a very hard and long history in the US. Scorsese claiming his catholic roots is not in the same vein as Rajmouli calling himself a secular. India mein film wale openly zeher ugal dete hain without flinching.

More than that Indianness is not antithetical to secularism. Secularism not even antithetical to Hinduism. Rajmouli can profess whatever the heck he wants.

Lastly it's art, humara desh mahaan isiliye hum kisi aur ki filmon ko accha bhi nahi bolenge is a weird hill to die on. Bhai, filmon ki izaad bhi waise toh Hindustaan mein nahi hui thi. Dadasaheb bahar se hi leke aaye the pattachitra ki taknik.

Originally posted by: Filmistan

We don't need to go above it. India is a huge country, with tremendous diversity, cultures, languages, religions, etc. It's about embracing it all and presenting Indian content than catering to the West.

American Cinema has tried penetrating into Indian markets for over two decades. But they haven't been as successful as elsewhere 'coz India has its own dynamic cinema culture. It's only China and India, amongst larger markets, where Hollywood/Americans haven't managed to get a foothold.

Singing, dancing, etc. is intrinsically part of our narrative origin, which is the Natyashashtra. My proposal is that we should highlight our own culture and idiosyncrasies than try and chummy up with what West expects of us. They'd ride the boat sooner than we presume if we held firm with our own aesthetics.

I mean cool of you to only think of Sanskritic texts like Natyashastra when you talk of "our narrative origin." Looooooooooooooooool.

Originally posted by: Petrichor80

I think Rani should strongly consider joining politics in the future. She will fit well with her attitude of best in the world, and no improvement needed

That might be on the cards.

Originally posted by: Petrichor80

I think Rani should strongly consider joining politics in the future. She will fit well with her attitude of best in the world, and no improvement needed

I do think she has a point though. We all tend to look down at Indian Cinema but we are truly the best and most diverse. There’s a reason why forums like this are thriving and why we are on here. I wouldn’t say we are perfect but we need to give ourselves more credit for sure.