Veil Off........and i will hear you out - Page 3

That quiet sad indeed, Minnie, i'm talking on an whole of women who choose to wear the niqab not forced. All i am pointing out is that each being should have an free will to choose to wear what they please, as long as it doesn't disrespect others in anyway. But some people have gone too far on the matter. Some people protest heres the article:

Livingstone backs Straw over veils
Ken Livingstone has backed Commons Leader Jack Straw's stance over veils, insisting "most people" wanted to see them scrapped.

But the London Mayor said change would have to come over the "long term" from within the Muslim community, rather than through actions of "old white male politicians".

Mr Livingstone's comments came as about 60 demonstrators gathered to confront Jack Straw at his surgery at Bangor Street Community Centre in Blackburn.

Mr Straw did not speak to the protestors as he arrived and later left the building. The small group of protesters, including several women wearing veils, chanted: "The veil is freedom. The veil is liberation. The veil is choice."

Mr Livingstone told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "Getting Muslim women to give up the veil, which I suspect is something most people would like to see in the long-term - including myself - is not going to be done by old white male politicians telling them to do it.

"It will be change from within the Muslim community, and that's why it is important we should engage with the progressive elements and leaders in the Muslim community, rather than what really America has been doing over the last 30 years, which is alliances with, say, the Saudi royal family and the most backward and reactionary elements."

Mr Straw, the former Home Secretary hosted two advice surgeries in his constituency on Friday, which both passed off without incident as the town's Muslim leaders rallied round in support of their MP.

Following a meeting with Asian Labour councillors and senior mosque officials, Mr Straw reiterated that he stood by his remarks and would not offer an apology to anyone offended.

Mr Straw said no one had challenged his right to say that he preferred women to remove their veils when they visited him.

He said: "I stand by my remarks and see no reason to apologise for them. This is a free and democratic country. But I am wholly opposed to any suggestion that the law should be changed, nor have I disputed the right for a Muslim woman to wear the hijab."

http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=1071558 the link

Originally posted by: punjini

Once, when I asked a Muslim friend about this custom, he justified it by saying that by wearing the chador, women were preventing men from committing sin, and were thereby not distracting men! Does this mean that men should not exercise any self-control? Are men not credited with any intelligence - are they mere animals? Actually, the naqab is as much an insult to men as to women.



 

 

Punjini, as you're talking about Islam here, I'd like to clear some things for you. First of all, it's the duty of EVERY Muslim to lower their gaze, MEN and women, and it's written in Qur'an which is the most reliable source for every Muslim.

Either you must've misunderstood your friend or you do not really wish to know it because then you would've asked your friend about that thing instead of writing it hear without actually having the background information.

Anyways, let me explain it to you. By covering your face, you prevent men from seeing your beauty which COULD arouse them sexually. Let's take the example of twins. One of them is covering herself and the other is wearing revealing clothes... now what do you think which of the sisters would be more of a feast for the men's eyes? Islam eradicates the problem from it's roots.

Niqab/Chador is also meant to be a protection for Muslim women... and even nowadays many women voluntarily want to practice their religion and look at it as a good thing. It's very interesting that most of the people who think they have to save those "suppressed" women, are themselves slaves of the societies, glamour and fashion. It's an even greater disgrace and opprobrium that one has to choose their clothing according to other's choice and take their comfort in consideration than their own.

 

 

Edited by amy22 - 17 years ago

I live in New York, America. Over here we have an extremely large Jewish population. Jewish men and women cover their heads, and they wear a very traditional garb. This does not mean that they dont wish to integrate or become part of mainstream America, it just means that they dont wish to give up their religion. These people are just as much part of american society as anyone else is.

The same goes for the muslim people in UK. Just because someone wants to follow their religion, that does not mean that they dont want to integrate or be a part of the nation. Muslim women that choose to wear veils and hijabs should be allowed that right. People should be free to practice their religion, as they choose, as long as they dont harm anyone else. A muslim woman's wearing the hijab does not harm anyone else. I do however understand the position of those that say that if a woman is wearing a veil, then they cant interview her properly and that things such as veils cause a problem for photo IDs and stuff. That is a valid concern, and that should not be disregarded. If a job has a requirement in which one must speak with people, or show their face then those requirements cannot be changed, and certain priviledges have to be given up if one wants to wear the veil. I dont think that the hijab poses the same problem as the veil tho. The hijab is a scarf which one wears on their head, it doesnt affect one's interaction with people and the expressions and voice are entirely the same as they would be without a hijab.

I have read arguments by many people that said that most women dont choose to wear the hijab. Some women like those living in conservative countries, under the rule of extremists have no choice, however, women living in UK have every choice available to them. If a woman in UK or America does not want to wear the veil/hijab no one on this planet, including her parents, siblings,spouses can force her to because the law guarantees their protection to do with their life as they choose. I have a friend, she is 17 years old. She has been wearing the hijab for a while now. Her mother is a doctor who doesnt wear a hijab, her father never told her to wear the hijab and no one in her family wears it but she chooses to do it. She is living in New York, if she didnt want to do it then no one would be able to force her. She made a conscious decision. I support her right to make that decision.

In conclusion. People should be allowed to practice their religion as they see fit. Sometimes their religion does not coincide with the rules of the society and they will have to give up certain priviledges in order to practice their religion (like driving because u cant have a license in a veil). However that does not mean that they should not be allowed to practice their religion in their own way. Some women actually do choose to wear the hijab/veil and we should respect their choice rather than calling them ignorant and gullible or those that cant think for themselves and are brainwashed by society.

Edited by mkzara - 17 years ago

Wow that was pretty long. Sorry about that. 😳

Originally posted by: amy22

 

Punjini, as you're talking about Islam here, I'd like to clear some things for you. First of all, it's the duty of EVERY Muslim to lower their gaze, MEN and women, and it's written in Qur'an which is the most reliable source for every Muslim.

Either you must've misunderstood your friend or you do not really wish to know it because then you would've asked your friend about that thing instead of writing it hear without actually having the background information.

Anyways, let me explain it to you. By covering your face, you prevent men from seeing your beauty which COULD arouse them sexually. Let's take the example of twins. One of them is covering herself and the other is wearing revealing clothes... now what do you think which of the sisters would be more of a feast for the men's eyes? Islam eradicates the problem from it's roots.

Niqab/Chador is also meant to be a protection for Muslim women... and even nowadays many women voluntarily want to practise their religion and look at it as a good thing. It's very interesting that most of the people who think they have to save those "suppressed" women, are themselves slaves of the societies, glamour and fashion. It's an even greater disgrace and opprobrium that one has to choose their clothing according to other's choice and take their comfort in consideration than their own.

 

Sorry, I am not convinced that by making women cover up their faces, you are preventing men from committing vice. This is primitive thinking where you are supposing that men have absolutely no self-control. They see a beautiful face and go out of control?

Well, my argument is that if men are really creatures who go out of control at the sight of a beautiful face, then better ask men to cover their eyes!   Wouldn't that make more sense? But no. Can't you realise that a male has devised this naqab rule?? Obviously a male would not make a rule that men should cover themselves!

It is amazing how women defend the naqab in the face of all logic.

Originally posted by: punjini

Sorry, I am not convinced that by making women cover up their faces, you are preventing men from committing vice. This is primitive thinking where you are supposing that men have absolutely no self-control. They see a beautiful face and go out of control?

Well, my argument is that if men are really creatures who go out of control at the sight of a beautiful face, then better ask men to cover their eyes!   Wouldn't that make more sense? But no. Can't you realise that a male has devised this naqab rule?? Obviously a male would not make a rule that men should cover themselves!

It is amazing how women defend the naqab in the face of all logic.


 

 

No, it wouldn't make more sense. Women are to hide their beauty because they're no objects of admiration for every man on the street, but for the one man whom they marry.

And supporting that men have absolutely no self-control? Please go back and read what I wrote... I even put COULD in capitals.

Punjini, maybe you need to get some information about the Islamic Belief before you come here and start writing anything that comes to your mind. The male person you're talking about is our Prophet. So, I'd like to request you to stop talking about other's religions without even having a whiff of information.

It's perverse that people think a woman who's presenting herself in undergarments in front of everyone on the stage and is waiting to be judged by male persons in the jury has more freedom than the one who decides to veil herself. At least, the one who veils herself has more amour propre as not to be standing half-naked or even naked in some cases for the whole world to see her.

 

 

Originally posted by: amy22

It's perverse that people think a woman who's presenting herself in undergarments in front of everyone on the stage and is waiting to be judged by male persons in the jury has more freedom than the one who decides to veil herself. At least, the one who veils herself has more amour propre as not to be standing half-naked or even naked in some cases for the whole world to see her.

 

Do you think that the only alternative to not wearing burqa is to go around in undergarments? Why should there be two opposite extremes of dressing?

In today's modern world, where men and women work and play together, it is not possible for a woman to go around with face completely covered and lead a normal life.

The bonding and friendship between men and women is extremely important for a healthy, fruitful life. Women who only interact with women or men who interact only with men are going to have a very lopsided, unbalanced development. Keeping men and women completely separate is not healthy for mental development. The interaction between them greatly helps in furthering the interests of humanity. There are countless examples which show that men and women benefit from each other's company.

Women have entered all professions from management to aircraft flying. They run businesses and are often sole bread-winners for their families. They could not have done all this if they were hampered by a burqa, which prevented them from interacting with their teachers, classmates and colleagues.

Dear Friends!!!

I've been reading the posts in this topic from all these days and today I could'nt resist to make a post here.I don't see anything wrong in wearing a Burkha or veil  but at the time of verification of identity for th sake of Visa or any official purpose they can remove the veil for some time and then put on later infact this is what happens in real life.I don't think all the muslim girls/muslim ladies are threatened to wear a Burqua or veil they do it by themselves becoz they find it comfortable,we need not show pity on them unnecessarily infact this is not such a big problem.We should'nt blame any custom unnecessarily without knowing the ground realities.These things create more misunderstanings!!!Every custom has a purpose it can be modified according to the time but my point is we need not pity on those people for following their customs!!!!!

Cheers,

Mythili

 

Ultimately, it is everyone's choice to wear what they want. But it should be an informed choice - a choice which should be made after knowing the benefits and costs.

Originally posted by: amy22

 

Punjini, as you're talking about Islam here, I'd like to clear some things for you. First of all, it's the duty of EVERY Muslim to lower their gaze, MEN and women, and it's written in Qur'an which is the most reliable source for every Muslim.

Either you must've misunderstood your friend or you do not really wish to know it because then you would've asked your friend about that thing instead of writing it hear without actually having the background information.

Anyways, let me explain it to you. By covering your face, you prevent men from seeing your beauty which COULD arouse them sexually. Let's take the example of twins. One of them is covering herself and the other is wearing revealing clothes... now what do you think which of the sisters would be more of a feast for the men's eyes? Islam eradicates the problem from it's roots.

Niqab/Chador is also meant to be a protection for Muslim women... and even nowadays many women voluntarily want to practice their religion and look at it as a good thing. It's very interesting that most of the people who think they have to save those "suppressed" women, are themselves slaves of the societies, glamour and fashion. It's an even greater disgrace and opprobrium that one has to choose their clothing according to other's choice and take their comfort in consideration than their own.

 

 

Amy, please keep religion out of the topic.

It's not only muslims who cover their faces, even Hindus and to some extent Christians practice this custom. So covering the face is a topic which concerns all. The film 'dor' is  the most recent example, where the muslim protagonist is a woman who lives on her own terms while the Hindu women is buried under veils and traditional oppression. It's a topic where it is being discussed what makes any woman cover her faces and how it affects the lives who are around them.

And Punjini does have a point, if the reason of covering up is simply keeping the 'beast in man' under control, then it should be the man who should be covering his eyes.

Originally posted by: mkzara

I live in New York, America. Over here we have an extremely large Jewish population. Jewish men and women cover their heads, and they wear a very traditional garb. This does not mean that they dont wish to integrate or become part of mainstream America, it just means that they dont wish to give up their religion. These people are just as much part of american society as anyone else is.

The same goes for the muslim people in UK. Just because someone wants to follow their religion, that does not mean that they dont want to integrate or be a part of the nation. Muslim women that choose to wear veils and hijabs should be allowed that right. People should be free to practice their religion, as they choose, as long as they dont harm anyone else. A muslim woman's wearing the hijab does not harm anyone else. I do however understand the position of those that say that if a woman is wearing a veil, then they cant interview her properly and that things such as veils cause a problem for photo IDs and stuff. That is a valid concern, and that should not be disregarded. If a job has a requirement in which one must speak with people, or show their face then those requirements cannot be changed, and certain priviledges have to be given up if one wants to wear the veil. I dont think that the hijab poses the same problem as the veil tho. The hijab is a scarf which one wears on their head, it doesnt affect one's interaction with people and the expressions and voice are entirely the same as they would be without a hijab.

I have read arguments by many people that said that most women dont choose to wear the hijab. Some women like those living in conservative countries, under the rule of extremists have no choice, however, women living in UK have every choice available to them. If a woman in UK or America does not want to wear the veil/hijab no one on this planet, including her parents, siblings,spouses can force her to because the law guarantees their protection to do with their life as they choose. I have a friend, she is 17 years old. She has been wearing the hijab for a while now. Her mother is a doctor who doesnt wear a hijab, her father never told her to wear the hijab and no one in her family wears it but she chooses to do it. She is living in New York, if she didnt want to do it then no one would be able to force her. She made a conscious decision. I support her right to make that decision.

In conclusion. People should be allowed to practice their religion as they see fit. Sometimes their religion does not coincide with the rules of the society and they will have to give up certain priviledges in order to practice their religion (like driving because u cant have a license in a veil). However that does not mean that they should not be allowed to practice their religion in their own way. Some women actually do choose to wear the hijab/veil and we should respect their choice rather than calling them ignorant and gullible or those that cant think for themselves and are brainwashed by society.

👏👏👏

  I completely agree with you.

  I feel freedom works both ways. Forcing someone to give something up is actually as bad as forcing someone to take something up.

  I think there is nothing wrong in any woman wearing a hijab. It might be that it gives them a separate identity. Just like the sikhs wear turban or a kada. That too is a concious choice. I have met so many sikh woman who have been born and brought up in US but never have cut even an inch of their hair.

  Hindu women always cover their head when sitting in a temple, which I think is a very humbling experience and I myself do it.