Veil Off........and i will hear you out - Page 5

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Posted: 17 years ago
#41

Originally posted by: anjali.nair

Every one here is arguing about  how women should be given a choice to choose her attire and even the topic starter mentioned "But why should we as a society impose our thoughts on their ways of dressing. "

Then no society has a right to impose rule on women. Veil or No veil. It should be a  woman's choice.

Very well said. That is what it should be.

IdeaQueen thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#42

To all the friends discussing about this topic:

 

Veil row escalates in Britain 10/16/2006 12:38:17 AM

- By Thomas Wagner

London, Oct. 15: A British government minister joined an increasingly bitter debate over the rights of Muslim women to wear face veils in Britain, telling a Sunday newspaper that a teaching assistant should be dismissed for insisting on wearing one in school.

The Conservatives also weighed in on the contentious issue, with one of the party's top officials accusing Muslim leaders of encouraging a "voluntary apartheid" that could help spawn homegrown terrorism.

The public debate over Islamic integration in Britain began earlier this month, when Jack Straw, a former foreign secretary who now serves as Leader of the House of Commons, said Muslim women visiting his office should remove their veils. The discussion already has involved widely publicised comments from Prime Minister Tony Blair and author Salman Rushdie.

On Sunday, Nazir Ahmed, the House of Lords' first Muslim legislator, joined the fray by criticising British politicians and the media for "demonising" the country's Muslim community. The Sunday Mirror newspaper quoted Phil Woolas, the government's race and faith minister, as demanding Muslim teaching assistant Aishah Azmi be fired for refusing to remove her veil at work. "She should be sacked. She has put herself in a position where she can't do her job," Mr Woolas said.

Ms Azmi has refused to remove her black veil, which leaves only her eyes visible, in front of male colleagues. She was suspended from her job at the Headfield Church of England School in West Yorkshire, a northern area of England with a large Muslim population. Junior schools such as Headfield generally teach students at the ages of four to 11.

Ms Azmi, 24, who has two children, has insisted that she had been willing to remove her veil in class, as long as there were no adult males present. She has taken her case to an industrial tribunal that is expected to take its decision in the next few weeks. "She is denying the right of children to a full education by insisting that she wears the veil. If she is saying that she won't work with men, she is taking away the right of men to work in school," Mr Woolas was quoted as saying.

"There are limits in a liberal democracy. There are boundaries in a democracy and this is one of them. It's a boundary we can't cross," he said.

In a front-page article in the Sunday Telegraph, David Davis, a top Conservative Party official, supported Mr Straw for starting the debate.

"What Jack touched on was the fundamental issue of whether in Britain we are developing a divided society. Whether we are creating a series of closed societies within our open society. Whether we are inadvertently encouraging a kind of voluntary apartheid," Mr Davis said.

"At the starkest level, we may be creating conditions in the recesses of our society that foster homegrown terrorism," he was quoted as saying.

Mr Blair also has praised Mr Straw for raising the issue "in a measured and considered way," and urged Britons to engage in such discussions without "becoming hysterical."

Rushdie, whose book The Satanic Verses once led to death threats against him by Islamic clerics, said last week that Mr Straw "was expressing an important opinion, which is that veils suck, which they do. I think the veil is a way of taking power away from women."

In an interview with BBC Radio on Sunday, Lord Ahmed, a moderate peer of the Labour Party, said: "Let's be honest, there are people in our community who call themselves Muslims who have been threatening our national security. It is very unfortunate.

"But the problem is that the politicians and some people in the media have used this for demonisation of entire communities, which has become a very fashionable thing today."

He said Muslims are trying hard to deal with extremism and to engage in the veil debate.

One Sunday Times columnist compared anti-Muslim prejudice to anti-Semitism. "It's open season on Islam — Muslims are the new Jews," wrote India Knight. "And the idea that Straw's divisive statement should not only be tolerated but adopted on all sides, as it has been with a kind of bullying relish, troubles me."

To complicate the situation further, an unrelated case involving a dispute over another religious item also has been making news in Britain. A British Airways check-in worker, Nadia Eweida, has claimed that she was effectively forced to take unpaid leave after refusing to remove or conceal a small crucifix necklace.

The airline has said items such as turbans, hijabs and bangles can be openly worn "as it is not practical for staff to conceal them beneath their uniforms," but that smaller items such as crucifixes on necklaces should be concealed.

Christian groups have branded British Airways' ruling as "extremely offensive," and Ms Eweida, 55, has said she plans to sue her employer for religious discrimination. On Sunday, British Cabinet minister Peter Hain, the Northern Ireland

secretary, told the BBC he "didn't understand" the airline's decision. "Frankly, I think the British Airways order for her not to wear a cross was loopy," Mr Hain said. (AP)

http://www.asianage.com/?dan=2:1:225:252598

zoya786uk thumbnail
Posted: 17 years ago
#43
Amy, i guess there aren't many tolerant beings out there who can't value diversity. Aishah Azmi is a mockery, when she went to an interview did she not have an niqab on she can't even answer that properly. I'm sure she could take her niqab off infront of primary school children. You may seem to be confused with my views but Aishah Azmi was being a little hypocritical in the fact that she took her niqab off in the interview.

The news is still hitting the UK Headlines:

Debate about veils is 'healthy'

Jack Straw asks women to remove the veil in meetings
MPs and Muslim leaders have said the debate surrounding women wearing the veil is "healthy".
They said honest debate helped to break down barriers between Muslims and other sections of British society.

Government ministers were also right to give their views on British Muslims, they said.

Their comments came after the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) said recent pronouncements by ministers had "demonised" Muslims.

Muslim human rights campaigner Ahlam Akram said the MCB was being "too sensitive".

"This debate is good and healthy," she said.

"Muslims are feeling very alienated at the moment. We are worried about what is happening in this country. But we, and organisations like the MCB, are getting too sensitive.

"Generally we Muslims are afraid of having debates. Anything out of the Muslim norm and we get afraid.

"We live in a country which guarantees our freedom and freedom of speech and it's about time we used that to have a debate."

'One dimensional'

The government is facing criticism from Islamic groups over the issue of whether Muslim women who insist on wearing veils are hindering integration.

The controversy was sparked two weeks ago by Commons' leader Jack Straw when he admitted asking Muslim women if they would remove their veils when visiting his Blackburn constituency offices.

Over the weekend, the continuing row focused on Muslim teaching assistant, Aishah Azmi, who was suspended for refusing to remove her veil in class.

Government minister Phil Woolas angered some Muslim groups by calling for the 23-year-old to be sacked.

But Ms Azmi's MP Shahid Malik said ministers had been right to give their views and said it had resulted in helpful debate.

"The thing that stigmatised Muslims in this country was the events of July 7, last year.

"This is another example of the one dimensional perspective that organisations like the Muslim Council of Britain have all the time.

"It is unhelpful. The government has a right and responsibility to intervene. The government is here for everyone.

"It is government intervention that can act as a catalyst to get people thinking about different issues.

"If we don't talk about these things they are stored up for the future. It's best sometimes to get them out."

The debate, surrounding the veil and other issues, should take place within the Muslim community but there isn't a neutral platform

Dr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui

Keighley MP Ann Cryer, whose constituency contains a large Muslim community and who came out in support of Jack Straw, said: "Any debate is healthy.

"But the sad part is that there is a very large silent majority of Muslims who do not speak out.

"I have no doubt they agree with Jack Straw and also with what I've been saying about issues such as forced marriages."

Dr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui, leader of the lobby group the Muslim Parliament of Great Britain, said ministers had provoked a debate which was needed.

"My opinion is that this debate should take place and ministers are right to voice their views," he said.

"The debate, surrounding the veil and other issues, should take place within the Muslim community but there isn't a neutral platform.

"All of them are religious and sectarian. Everything is coloured by the front they take. As a result the only platform left is the wider society. So I welcome the debate."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6055340.stm
amy22 thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#44
I simply fail to understand why people think Muslim women [or others who have to wear the ghoonghat] are not leading healthy lives just because they support the veil. Guys, have you ever thought about the opposite? Maybe they feel all uncomfortable when they are NOT wearing any veil. Maybe they feel protected with their veil. Such debates are only degrading for those who really want to veil their faces and are convinced that whatever they're doing is right.

If the government is really concerned about this matter, they should go to every woman who veils herself individually and ask her if she's happy with her veil or not.

amy22 thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#45

Originally posted by: mythili_Kiran

 

 

 

 

One Sunday Times columnist compared anti-Muslim prejudice to anti-Semitism. "It's open season on Islam — Muslims are the new Jews," wrote India Knight. "And the idea that Straw's divisive statement should not only be tolerated but adopted on all sides, as it has been with a kind of bullying relish, troubles me."

 

 

The columnist hit the nail on the head.

The world is so full of hypocrites... and the government consists of hypocritical people only.

 

Edited by amy22 - 17 years ago
Pradarshak thumbnail
Posted: 17 years ago
#46

[QUOTE=zoya786uk]But why should we as a society impose our thoughts on their ways of dressing. I don't have any problem with a woman wearing a mini skirt or a veil as i believe its thier choice of attire. Yes! Most of the posters here have discriminated women who wear the niqab, they are one of the most enjoyable beings you can come across and try to integrate more than you and me. Everyone should have a choice on what to wear. [/QUOTE}

What you are not getting is that the society and the environment the person is living has a lot of influence in her thoughts/choices. If the society(starting with her home) is bit liberal towards her, do you think she would still prefer to cover herself from head-to-toe. There are lot of attires which don't fall in the obscene category.

When it comes to religion(which I don't follow) I guess I have no right to say anything unless it harms others. So, it may be someone's personal choice to wear what she wants, since it does not affect me in anyway. But don't you think that everyone should have the liberty to make a comfortable personal choice?

bhilwara thumbnail
Posted: 17 years ago
#47

Originally posted by: amy22

Maybe they feel all uncomfortable when they are NOT wearing any veil. Maybe they feel protected with their veil.



Muslim clerics in Iraq have been taking advantage of the political vacuum left by Saddam Hussein to try to impose their own strict version of Islam.
"Women who don't wear the veil won't be served when they go shopping; taxis won't pick them up and they might have eggs and rotten tomatoes thrown at them" -Sheikh Mohammed Fartusi


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2975198.stm
(Click above read the whole article from BBC)

MS.ATTITUDE thumbnail
Posted: 17 years ago
#48
According to Islam muslim women r supposed to cover frm head to toe bt she is allowed to show her face n hands (frm da tip of da fingers till wrists) bt if sum women wants 2 cover thier faces its gd bt its nt compulsory in islam.
amy22 thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#49

Originally posted by: bhilwara



Muslim clerics in Iraq have been taking advantage of the political vacuum left by Saddam Hussein to try to impose their own strict version of Islam.
"Women who don't wear the veil won't be served when they go shopping; taxis won't pick them up and they might have eggs and rotten tomatoes thrown at them" -Sheikh Mohammed Fartusi


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2975198.stm
(Click above read the whole article from BBC)

 

Okay, and are you saying just because Saddam Hussein had this sick rule in his country, no woman, anywhere in the world, wants to veil herself anymore?

 

 

Edited by amy22 - 17 years ago
bhilwara thumbnail
Posted: 17 years ago
#50

Originally posted by: amy22

Okay, and are you saying just because Saddam Hussein had this sick rule in his country, no woman, anywhere in the world,wants to veil herself anymore?


I was just trying to provide an example in support of your statement you wrote in earlier post "Maybe they feel protected with their veil."
Indeed! 😊