Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Eternal Love CC # 9 - Page 99

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

IIRC, Panchali was the one who first said Shakuni cheated 😆. She was laying groundwork for propaganda, probably, not mythical tales.

Yes she was the first but I think at least at that time she was trying to find an excuse mechanism from the situation they were in probably not aiming to start a propoganda.

It is seriously annoying though that they made Shakuni the chief conspirator much more than he deserved

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Yup, she was the only smart one in the family, Kunti came next. Men were nincompoops

@bold please spare my Sahdev

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

^^^

I personally feel that Kauravas were not just 4. Maybe not 100, but definitely higher in proportion to Pandavas, maybe 15 or 20. That could be the only reason why Pandavas did have some sense of insecurity or why Bheem bullied them.

The competitor to Duryodhan was always Yudhishtir, but his anger was always directed towards Bheem that needs to have some cause, so we can't completely ignore the bullying part as interpolation too.

Yuyutsu was anyways on Pandavas team, Duryodhan and Bheem were near equal in strength so definitely Bheem couldn't have bullied him physically. Even Dusshashan seems powerful enough to at least defend himself. I don't think that Bheem only bullied Vikarna. I am sure there were more brothers but had not much importance to find a mention or as you said they didn't reach adulthood but were alive as toddlers or preteens

Thankyou for the Sauvali details, so Yuyutsu's mom was a half sister to Duryodhan's mom. Interesting!

The name thing makes me wonder could it be that Madri too were 2 sisters. Otherwise it is completely impossible for a woman pregnant with twins belonging to different fathers to determine which son belongs to which father like she did with Nakul n Sahdev.

It could be that out of frustration, Pandu tried some unnatural three... which went wrong resulting in their deaths

It is not impossible for a woman to be pregnant with twins belonging to different fathers.

But they will look different of course.

Originally posted by: vyapti

It is not impossible for a woman to be pregnant with twins belonging to different fathers.

But they will look different of course.

I didn't say it is impossible to have children by different fathers, I said it's impossible to determine the father of each child conclusively especially when the fathers in themselves are twins

Why was Shikhandini never given the title "Panchali" ?

Whom did Kunti & Madri have intercourses with ?

Why was Shikhandini never given the title "Panchali" ?

There was no Shikhandini. The child was Shikhandi as per the epic and was raised as a boy, he was given the titles Panchala, Srinjaya and DraupadA just like Dhrishtadyum was.

Only guy who calls her Shikhandini is Bhishma. He was homophobic liar. Who cooked up story of reincarnation and sex change miracle to disguise his misogyny and homophobia.

He felt too manly to be killed by a woman or transgender

Shikhandi had fathered sons and presence of male organs was confirmed by his father in law indicate that Shikhandi had male organs. Which means he was either a closeted (hides from the world) homosexual or closeted transgender (woman in a man's body)

Bhishma got to know the information through his spies and when realised that in Yudhishtir's war council Shikhandi has been assigned to kill him twisted it into reincarnation story of Amba as an excuse to justify his homophobia. So that he drops his weapons even if Shikhandi does not. Eventually he didn't drop his weapons too.

Bhishma the alpha male bachelor didn't want to die in the hands of homosexual. He knew he was going to be killed by him because Pandavas would not want to. He wanted glorious death in the hand of Arjun

Whom did Kunti & Madri have intercourses with ?

Multiple opinions exist amongst scholars

1. Vidur

2. Other Rishis in the forest

3. Other nameless kings

4. Pandu himself after treatment

Or a combination of the above..

We would never know, because due to the death of Pandu, Kunti had to resort to this propaganda to ensure public and Rishis support for her children's claim to throne.

My opinion is nameless kings. Because one of them (Indra namesake) gave the weapons to Arjuna. As well as treasure chest for war. Another (Surya namesake) funded their 13 year exile with unlimited food / Akshaya Patra. This Surya namesake also must have fathered Karna.

Originally posted by: Krishnpriya

Why was Shikhandini never given the title "Panchali" ?

Whom did Kunti & Madri have intercourses with ?

Because he was always the Panchal PRINCE, not princess. He is referred to as such throughout MBh. The Amba nonsense was said by Bheeshma, likely to justify possible loss to Shikhandi. The loss eventually happened.

There are several citations from MBh which say Shikhandi killed Bheeshma, not Arjuna.

One ex:

Ganga laments Bheeshma was killed by someone like Shikhandi. Krishna consoles her that it was Arjuna.

But later, when Krishna speaks to Vasudeva, he says Shikhandi killed Bheeshma.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Back to Radha.

😆

I'm keen to know more about Nappinnai. Not much in English out there. Can anyone suggest reading material?

https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/thread/radha-and-nappinnai/

Nappinnai is believed to be a manifestation of Devi Nila, who is the third consort of Lord Narayan.

Radha is the one and only consort of Sri Krishna in Golok and in Brindavan.

The similarities between them are many. Both of them are Gopik and considered as the topmost Gopika, superior to other cowherd women. They participate in the Raasleela with Sri Krishna. The ones who believe in Nappinnai accept that one can reach Krishna only through Nappinnai. The same view is held about Radha that Sri Krishna is unattainable if Radha's grace is not obtained.

Nappinnai was treated as Sri Krishna’s lawfully wedded wife in Gokul. (The question that arises in the minds of many will be, “how is that possible? He was far too young!”. Well, Nappinnai was found in the Southern recension of Harivamsha. The Southern version might have had a different narrative as far as Krishna's age was concerned during His stay in Brindavan.) On the contrary, Radha is generally considered to be Sri Krishna’s beloved. Whether She was married to Him or not continues to be debated, although Garg Samhita and Brahma Vaivarta Mahapuran affirm that the Radha-Krishna wedding was conducted.

Coming to the question, “Are They the same?”, They are treated differently by different sects. Presently, Nappinnai is often equated as Krishna's Queen-consort, Nagnajiti who is believed to be an avtar of Devi Nila. However, it must be stated that Nappinnai being Nila was a later addition to the story. Nappinnai was not given the identity of Nila Devi initially, She was believed to be His first wife and foremost consort. If we analyze the earliest written works where Nappinnai is mentioned, she is not called Nila in them. The bull-taming episode by which Krishna wedded her is also absent in the earliest references to Nappinnai . It was after a few centuries that Nappinnai became equated with Nila and subsequently, as Nagnajiti, presumably by the 10th or 11th century. Nowadays, even the people who accept Nila Devi's supposed manifestation as Nappinnai conveniently choose to ignore the fact that She was traditionally treated as the Lord's Supreme Consort while He was still in Gokul. Andal had first approached Nappinnai and requested Her help in order to attain Krishna Nevertheless, people are more interested in supplanting Nappinnai’s identity onto Nagnajiti. They feel the need to invent a hierarchy of superiority and inferiority while talking about Dwarakadheesh’s consorts. As a result, Nagnajiti is not given the same exalted status enjoyed by Rukmini and Satyabhama (In fact, even Satyabhama is not given the same stature as Rukmini by some devotees, despite the fact that Rukmini and Satyabhama were equally worshipped during the inception of Krishna's worship. It is quite sad that even Bhu Devi is misunderstood by people today!!!

Radha, on the other hand, is treated as the most supreme consort of Sri Krishna by many sects and various scriptures. Theologically, this is the difference in how they are perceived.

From a historical point of view, it is opined that Krishna did have a consort during His days in Gokul because while Nappinnai was revered in South, Radha's prominence grew in the North. Hence, a theory has been proposed by a few historians that the idea of Nappinnai might have traveled northward and transformed to become Radha. No one can unilaterally declare that Radha and Nappinnai are different simply because They possess two different names.

Though we get less info from scriptures about Radha, here is an interesting story.

Brahmanda Purana

This Purana talks of Parashurama doing tapas for the grace of Krishna and Shankara (along with their wives!). So the four deities - Krishna, Radha, Shankara, and Parvati appear in front of Parashurama. What does Parashurama seek from Radha and Parvati: In whatever thousand births I take, please ensure that I become the devotee of you four - Krishna, Radha, Shankara, and Parvati. He also admits to seeing non-difference between all four!

Brahmavaivarta Puran:

The Radhikopakhyana occurs in the 48th chapter, where Narayana tells the kathaa. He narrates the discussion that Shiva has with Parvati. When Parvati asks him about Radha and her origin, though the story is extremely secret and not so easily found in Puranas, Rudra meditates on Krishna and tells Parvati that Krishna had asked him not to tell the story to anybody, but since Parvati is arthangaswarupini he will tell the story since Krishna has given the permission. Rudra also says - This secret story that I know, is not known by Brahma or Shesha!

Shiva also proceeds to caution us - Doubtless, one must take Radha's name before Krishna's name! otherwise, they will obtain brahmahatyaa dosha.

There was another story in South India which gains prominence after Jayadeva's Ashtapadis is --

Nila Devi was Radha's elder sister, who was married and staying in Mathura. Once she came to Brindavan to visit her parents. She saw the prominence of Krishna and heard many of his leelas from her sister Radha and from other Gopikas. She argued with Radha and tried to infuse some logic into her mind by questioning every divine deed of Krishna--- Why you are all adoring a butter and milk thief so much? Thieves are punishable in my Madhura, here it seems you are all praying for the attention of a sinner?!!

Grabbing young girls' clothes from bathing Ghat and watching the young girls in their nude form, and teasing them, is it divine Leela to all of you? If such a thing happens in our Madhura, our king will punish such an offender by plucking his eyes!

Why are you praising a dancing and singing kid as a Divine Avtaar? Are you mad Radha?

Then Radha pleaded Neela to meet once her Krishna, reluctantly she agreed!

When the first time she saw Madhav, she lost the presence of all her senses, eager to run towards him, to hug, to kiss, to be with Him for a while. From a distance, Radha was watching her with an inquisitive smile, later she asked her sister, why she was stood before him like a mute doll?

For that, with a distressed voice, Neela asked her --- will your Krishna like this dark girl Neela as he likes you? Ever he loves me as he loves you all? I don't want to go back to Mathura, I want to be with him, I can't leave him, such a mesmerizing youth he is, no, he is not a kid, he is my beloved now, Radha, now I admit that he is God, please arrange another meeting with him tonight!! she pleaded.

There is no authenticity in this story, but I like this story, so I've shared it with you all. 😊

Question on rasleela and clothes-stealing business. I know for sure it's not in MBh and have not found either in Harivamsa Purana. Is this there in SB?