Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Eternal Love CC # 9 - Page 98

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Masses were never the problem, people telling the masses whom to worship were. The influencers (Kings and Priests).

Vyasa had already built sufficient ground work for her by first the Yoga Maya who replaced Krishna in jail raised as a Goddess. Her myth and then compounding it with Fire birth and few miracles could do what was needed to make her the avatar. Dyut Sabha being one of the highlights.

Imagine Draupadi getting a Vishwarupa just as Dusshasan comes to get her sari. Just like Krishna gets a Vishwarupa when Dusshasan at Duryodhan's insistence tries to handcuff him.

Hope you see the parallels here of myth making as to what was intended and what turned out.

Was she the girl who replaced? Although I don't deny the probability but can we be sure of it.

But true they could have added elements of divinity to her

Shakt texts do have a few instance like she drinking the blood of every person who died in war

Actually I was waiting for you. Could you help with the reasons for your assumption of 9 Gandhaari sister

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Was she the girl

Actually I was waiting for you. Could you help with the reasons for your assumption of 9 Gandhaari sister

Southern texts mention Shakuni bringing the 9 sauvali along with Gandhari for marriage. Sauvali means daughter of Suvala which is name of Gandhari's father. Shakuni himself was called Sauvala

Interestingly in northern texts Sauvali is given as name of Vaishya mother of Yuyutsu. The maid of Gandhari.

General opinion is that Gandhari was the daughter of Suvala's chief wife while her sisters may have been born to concubines and brought in as dowry along with Gandhari as was the norm of the time.

Plus the fact that Gandhari's given name is never used.

If it is a single specific woman she is addressed by Given name. Like Pritha for Kunti. Krishnaa for Draupadi/Panchali

There was no surrogacy or test tube baby in that era or clone making tech for having 100 children

Most likely there were no 100 sons either. That is just propaganda.

Like 1000 sons of Kartaviryaarjun and Sagara Raghuvanshi or Krishna's 161080 sons of Krishna as per Bhagvatham

General rule any child named does not automatically mean it lived up to adult hood. Only that person who is named and present in multiple unrelated events across the epic or Purana existed till adulthood.

Infant mortality and toddler mortality was extremely high. Miscarriages very common and this was the primary reason for polygamy.

Heir and spare

Dasrath had 300 plus wives but only 4 sons reached adulthood, Akbar had only Salim with as many wives and concubines.

So for Kouravas it has to be Duryodhan Dusshasan Vikarna and Yuyutsu

^^^

I personally feel that Kauravas were not just 4. Maybe not 100, but definitely higher in proportion to Pandavas, maybe 15 or 20. That could be the only reason why Pandavas did have some sense of insecurity or why Bheem bullied them.

The competitor to Duryodhan was always Yudhishtir, but his anger was always directed towards Bheem that needs to have some cause, so we can't completely ignore the bullying part as interpolation too.

Yuyutsu was anyways on Pandavas team, Duryodhan and Bheem were near equal in strength so definitely Bheem couldn't have bullied him physically. Even Dusshashan seems powerful enough to at least defend himself. I don't think that Bheem only bullied Vikarna. I am sure there were more brothers but had not much importance to find a mention or as you said they didn't reach adulthood but were alive as toddlers or preteens

Thankyou for the Sauvali details, so Yuyutsu's mom was a half sister to Duryodhan's mom. Interesting!

The name thing makes me wonder could it be that Madri too were 2 sisters. Otherwise it is completely impossible for a woman pregnant with twins belonging to different fathers to determine which son belongs to which father like she did with Nakul n Sahdev.

It could be that out of frustration, Pandu tried some unnatural three... which went wrong resulting in their deaths

@FP

Panchali's childhood wasn't simple. It was completely erased from the texts. Not simply ignored. Erased. Doesn’t that tell you something? The magical birth story was itself intended to make her an avatar.

Krishna's childhood stories were exaggerations of normal events. Putana as pox is actually mentioned in MBh itself in the Skanda sections.

Ekanamsa being an Angirasa is another clue.

Doesn't matter if she wasn't the one who later became Panchali though the description fits. Could be any Angirasa girl.

I can't say with certainty that Vyasa meant for Panchali to be Vishnu avatar. I CAN say for sure he meant her to be magical being, more so than Krishna who we know the birth story for.

Coming to Shakuni. He is part of Duryodhan's conspiracies but as a clean up guy. As in cleaning up after Duryodhan does what he wants to be sure that no physical evidence is there against him.

At two places he tells Duryodhan enough, let it go (one just prior to Dyut Sabha) and once during exile after Duryodhan is rescued by Arjuna and Bhimasena from Gandharwas.

It is always Karna who provokes him and instigated him. Dusshasan blindly followed him.

Goat story is fake folklore as Shakuni, his brothers fight and die for Duryodhan and his father are alive till Rajasuya.

There is no goat that Gandhari gets married to OR widowed and in revenge for hiding that causes death of her brothers and fathers.

There are no dice made of bones of Gandhar princes with Shakuni because those princes died in the war with him

That's how myths get added. Shakuni wins fair and square as he is like Virat Kohli and Yudhishtir is a occasional gully cricket player

Playing against him was Yudhi's stupidity and cause of his loss. Shakuni doesn't cheat at all.

But general opinion goes that Shakuni cheated. Pandavas create that propaganda because they cannot say in public Yudhi was stupid to take him on.

The epic itself doesn't have goat story or bone dice.

But when Pandava dialogues in Epic keep repeating Shakuni cheated

Some random story teller adds a a few words Shakuni cheated with magical dice.

Another random story teller adds Shakuni cheated with magical dice made of bones

BTW all dice used by royalty are made of animal bones, most popular being elephants ivory

So someone asks how did Shakuni get the bones dice. And a very creative guy invents goat story

This is again a classic example of myth making, changing something ordinary into a supernatural myth or miracle

Madri's twins in my opinion was simple straight forward conception and delivery of twins.

Women have twins even triplets, it's normal.

Just like Kunti publicised that she was blessed by Dharma for Yudhishtir and Indra for Arjun

Madri being smart as soon as she got twins chose to use Twin God's name Ashwini Kumar's as their father.

Duryodhana's one wife had twin children lakshmana and lakshman (girl and boy) through normal way. No hanky pinky there either

Vedas call Thunder lighting and Rain as Indra, Purana cook up stories to make him a person

Ashwini Kumar's similarly are dawn and dusk and their common wife Usha is twilight

IIRC, Panchali was the one who first said Shakuni cheated 😆. She was laying groundwork for propaganda, probably, not mythical tales.

Yup, she was the only smart one in the family, Kunti came next. Men were nincompoops

Back to Radha.

😆

I'm keen to know more about Nappinnai. Not much in English out there. Can anyone suggest reading material?

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

@FP

Panchali's childhood wasn't simple. It was completely erased from the texts. Not simply ignored. Erased. Doesn’t that tell you something? The magical birth story was itself intended to make her an avatar.

Krishna's childhood stories were exaggerations of normal events. Putana as pox is actually mentioned in MBh itself in the Skanda sections.

Ekanamsa being an Angirasa is another clue.

Doesn't matter if she wasn't the one who later became Panchali though the description fits. Could be any Angirasa girl.

I can't say with certainty that Vyasa meant for Panchali to be Vishnu avatar. I CAN say for sure he meant her to be magical being, more so than Krishna who we know the birth story for.

@bold If possible please let me know more about it.

I remember us discussing the probability of Ekmansa being Draupadi and to be honest I was completely convinced too, it is now that timelines is getting confusing to me.

Anirudh was present at Draupadi Swayamwar, so Rukmavati Pradyumna had married by then, unless we assume that Rukmini and Krishna married over a decade after Pradyumna Rukmavati marriage and Rukmini was to be married with Shishupal, we can say that Draupadi Swayamwar happened a few years after. Dwarika at least 10 years after that, so now if Draupadi is Ekmansa, she should be around 25 at the time of Swayamwar. Pretty late for those days standards.

Coming to the explanations from you n Chillllii it does seem that probably they wanted to push her as an Avtaar but unfortunately her progeny got over (excluding Vajra who wasn't much interested in highlighting her probably)