Posted:
then I missed that part, now I understood her pov
then I missed that part, now I understood her pov
My post was a reply to what you said which I quote: "For instance, no foreigner can buy land in India.". I was only disputing the quoted text. Yes, the context was about the fast track to Indian citizenship for non-Muslim migrants from Afghanistan, Bangladesh, and Pakistan but the sentence that no foreigner can buy land in India is factually incorrect.
You were emphasizing on no IDs (which I too did in the first few pages of this thread, by the way) but no one goes from no ID to naturalization just like that. As far back as in 2016, Indian government said that it will allow minority refugees from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan to open bank accounts, purchase property for self-employment and access identity documents such as driving license, PAN and Aadhar card. (source: timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/id-cards-bank-a/cs-for-non-muslim-refugees/articleshow/53791267.cms). Come to think of it, how would they have enough money to buy immovable property without a valid ID to work and save that in a bank?
There are also exempted classes of persons in India, as defined in the Foreigners (Amendment) Order, 2015 issued under the Foreigners Act, 1946, who are exempt from certain provisions related to foreigner registration and visa requirements. Individuals who are granted refugee status or asylum in India may also come under this category. As far back as in 2015, GOI changed passport and foreigners acts to allow non-Muslim refugees from Bangladesh and Pakistan to stay in India even if they had or hadn't entered the country with valid papers.
The provision of the CAA which amends the Citizenship Act of 1955 that I was questioning was this: For migrants belonging to the Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi, or Christian communities in Afghanistan, Bangladesh, and Pakistan, the CAA reduces their qualifying length of residency in India before being eligible for Indian citizenship from “not less than eleven years” to “not less than five years.”. I asked why and your answer to that was something along the lines of "they can't buy immovable property till they get citizenship ASAP". I disputed that theory by presenting enough information in multitude of posts.
can I ask something, if you don't mind? Do you live in India? Cause if you do then I failed to understand how did you miss the real development? This Govt has done something which no one could have, we could not even say we are sanatani without being embarrassed about our identity whereas people from other religions were allowed to proclaim their identity proudly, and now seeing people embracing their truth, their identity with proud is what I will say is one of the biggest achievement of this govt, seeing people proudly acknowledging their roots, their culture is the best thing which has happened in India.
I have seen the difference in these years, I have seen how differently you were treated by everyone around you when you used to say you are a Hindu, I have seen our teachers ridiculing our religion, our history, our culture and thats why I don't understand your point, you can't expect someone to reverse the damage done for last 1000 years in just 10 Years, they will do whatever is required to give Bharat it's original identity back and they need time for this and that's what they will get, BJP is the best thing happened to India recently and nothing in this world can change it for me.
Like the other poster above mentioned, the answer is no, although I have been to India last year & was there for some months, so do know what people think of the parties (although this is in WB, where the BJP was a non-entity before 2019). Also, I'm not a "her". 😈 However, I fail to see how that is germane: does that mean that the only people w/ a valid opinion on India should be the people who live in or around flashpoint areas, be it Delhi, Nuh, Bangalore, Mumbai, Jodhpur, Ahmedabad, Imphal, et al? B'cos most people these days get their news from social media, be it Twitter/X, Meta platforms (Facebook/Instagram/WhatsApp/Threads), YouTube & so on: it's not like we're reading The Print/The Wire/Scroll..... (fill in the blanks w/ your favorite secular 🗞🧻) So if we are getting our news from the same sources, does it really matter whether we're getting it sitting in Portland or Prayagraj (when none of them are zone-restricted)?
I've experienced the same thing that you describe - elders ridiculing our religion, history, culture, & so on. But a major reason that has changed of late is that most of those people who I saw do that have since croaked, and I don't think it's fair to credit the BJP w/ something where the credit is due to Yamaraj 😈. There is also this mistaken perception that Hindus were totally dormant pre 2014. A whole lot of trends, be it casteist politics by all parties, muslim appeasement & so on also contributed to public mood souring on secular parties & institutions. All that has happened independent of the Sangh parivar. Indeed, if anything, they've been at the forefront of several trends that are pretty anti-Hindu, such as a ban on Diwali fireworks (JP Nadda's wife is in an NGO behind those public affidavits cracking down on that), demolition of several मठs in holy cities, slow-walking the CAA & completely getting NRC/NPR out of the agenda, and so on. In the meantime, the RSS has undergone its own transformation, from promoting ridiculous theories like "same DNA" to calling on Hindus to eat beef to promote social harmony. While different "double-engine" sarkars crack down on cow-protection squads, while on the Bangladesh border, BSF praises Sheikh Mujib while cattle smugglers use cranes to transport stolen cattle to the Bangladesh side
In fact, a close reading of the BJP's constitution would reveal that they are a Gandhian Socialist party i.e. no different from the Congress or other "INDIA" parties. If anything, they've been trying to redefine Hinduism as being a geopolitical rather than a religious idea, which is why they pushed Hindutva at the World Hindu Congress in Bangkok a few months back. It's also why you hear their people claim that Hinduism is not a religion but a way of life. To this day, they blindly support Bangladesh w/ free aid of all sorts even while doing nothing to demand that Dhaka protect Bangladesh Hindus from persecution. They grovel before tinpot sheikhdoms like Qatar, who are out of favor even w/ their more moderate neighbors like Saudi Arabia, Emirates and Egypt. They're totally co-opted by the WEF elitists who want everybody else to ride scooters 🛴 and eat bugs/mealworms, have open borders and do a population implosion, despite crashing birthrates in most places of the world, including India
Ultimately, everybody is free to vote for whoever one wants in the next 3 months. My point is - do not assume something about any party that it is not. Also, like I mentioned elsewhere, I was not anti-BJP: I supported them in 1984 when I was not even voting age (their first election, where they won 2 seats), and voted for them in 1991 in Pune (1989, I was one of those in awe of Weepy Singh before he exposed himself w/ the Mandal announcement months after coming to power). My only criteria for supporting a party in India is if it is pro-Hindu, and then pro capitalist
Originally posted by: K.Universe.
My post was a reply to what you said which I quote: "For instance, no foreigner can buy land in India.". I was only disputing the quoted text. Yes, the context was about the fast track to Indian citizenship for non-Muslim migrants from Afghanistan, Bangladesh, and Pakistan but the sentence that no foreigner can buy land in India is factually incorrect.
You were emphasizing on no IDs (which I too did in the first few pages of this thread, by the way) but no one goes from no ID to naturalization just like that. As far back as in 2016, Indian government said that it will allow minority refugees from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan to open bank accounts, purchase property for self-employment and access identity documents such as driving license, PAN and Aadhar card. (source: timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/id-cards-bank-a/cs-for-non-muslim-refugees/articleshow/53791267.cms). Come to think of it, how would they have enough money to buy immovable property without a valid ID to work and save that in a bank?
There are also exempted classes of persons in India, as defined in the Foreigners (Amendment) Order, 2015 issued under the Foreigners Act, 1946, who are exempt from certain provisions related to foreigner registration and visa requirements. Individuals who are granted refugee status or asylum in India may also come under this category. As far back as in 2015, GOI changed passport and foreigners acts to allow non-Muslim refugees from Bangladesh and Pakistan to stay in India even if they had or hadn't entered the country with valid papers.
The provision of the CAA which amends the Citizenship Act of 1955 that I was questioning was this: For migrants belonging to the Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi, or Christian communities in Afghanistan, Bangladesh, and Pakistan, the CAA reduces their qualifying length of residency in India before being eligible for Indian citizenship from “not less than eleven years” to “not less than five years.”. I asked why and your answer to that was something along the lines of "they can't buy immovable property till they get citizenship ASAP". I disputed that theory by presenting enough information in multitude of posts.
I'll grant you that I was a tad loose when I said foreigner, but in the context of this thread, I thought it was more obvious that it was applied to people coming to India as refugees, rather than the likes of Musk or Gelsinger (CEO of Intel) or Terry Gou (founder of Foxconn) or Amir Elstein (head of Tower Semiconductors). The issue of a valid ID was important before anything else, as you point out: since no one could have a bank account or other documents w/o it. If they came to India w/o papers - not maliciously like world migrants are doing at the US Southern border, but b'cos they didn't have it in Pakistan/Bangladesh & they'd be bullied or harassed if they tried getting one, then their first order of business once they're in Bengal or Rajasthan or anywhere else would be to get that before doing anything else, such as getting a job
The statements that you cite of the government of India in 2015 & 2016 was just that: statements. They never formulated the rules of CAA until a week ago, when the Supreme Court was breathing down their necks on the Electoral Bonds issue. If you recall, in 2019, after the CAA was passed, there were demonstrations in Shaheen Bagh, which the govt just allowed to run until they had to impose a lockdown due to Covid 19. But since then, 4 years have passed, and they did nothing about either CAA nor NRC. In fact, in 2022, there was something like 1,500 Hindus who returned to Pakistan, since their conditions were not improving. In the meantime, Rohingyas got EWS lodgings and electricity connections in BJP ruled states like Jammu and Delhi (no, that wasn't an AAP decision, even if AAP too is anti-Hindu), but the same administration refused to provide that to Pak Hindu refugees in the same city
As for the section of the 1955 Act that you questioned, I agree that there should not be a minimum time of stay: once someone comes in, let him/her in, but have a caveat that says that if that person either has a prior criminal record in Pakistan/Bangladesh/Afghanistan (not incldding blasphemy of islam) or if that person subsequently goes on to commit a crime in India, then that refuge status is cancelled and deportation could be one (but not the only) option that could be used to deal w/ him/her. That way, this is a real act of support to Hindus persecuted for their faith
Finally, I do think that NRC/NPR needs to be brought back, and that we crack the whip on illegal muslim migrants from Bangladesh and Burma. As well as on any political parties that stand up for them - TMC, AIMIM, LF, anybody!
It's okay if you are not her and It's totally okay if you think this change is because of BJP, you did not see the change like we did and that was my point, looking at Indian political scenario from outside with influenced views and living in that scenario will always give you different outlook and what I am trying to say is those who don't live in India just know about what their media wants to show and not the ground reality, the west couldn't digest Russia's success and started a propaganda against it, they couldn't digest china's success and did the same to it and now that India is developing at a pace they never thought we could so it's obvious why all these things about India and It's govt is in such a bad light in western media, they twists reality to suit their narrative.
This guy is not some random, young lawyer. He is son of current CJI and could very well be future CJI.
It's okay if you are not her and It's totally okay if you think this change is because of BJP, you did not see the change like we did and that was my point, looking at Indian political scenario from outside with influenced views and living in that scenario will always give you different outlook and what I am trying to say is those who don't live in India just know about what their media wants to show and not the ground reality, the west couldn't digest Russia's success and started a propaganda against it, they couldn't digest china's success and did the same to it and now that India is developing at a pace they never thought we could so it's obvious why all these things about India and It's govt is in such a bad light in western media, they twists reality to suit their narrative.
Fair points, except that I don't base my opinions on the Western media: I base it on Hindu accounts both on X as well as YouTube. "India speaks daily", Vishal Views, various Hindu Twitter accounts not pro-BJP, but even some pro-BJP sites, like OpIndia. In the last one, they describe atrocities against Hindus daily (like the one at Badaun yesterday) although they don't connect the dots b/w that and RSS/BJP triptikaran policies in all those states they rule. All these people are there sitting in India & following events there: are they also being influenced by the Western media, Soros & the gang?
The Western media is still pro Congress, since they have no clue about anyone else, although by now, they may well be resigned to Modi, given his embrace by the likes of the WEF, Gates & so on (Here, I do use Western media, but to know about the WEF agenda worldwide w/ ESG and everything else to totally destroy human civilization). They don't have a clue about what's going on in other countries, which is why election results in countries like Argentina, El Salvador and the Netherlands come as a surprise
Back to this thread, question to the mods: are we allowed to discuss NRC & NPR here, or does it have to be restricted to just CAA?
Originally posted by: devashree_h
This guy is not some random, young lawyer. He is son of current CJI and could very well be future CJI.
I know. Not related to this thread, but this is another reason that the collegium needs to go, and there needs to be an indirect societal input on who gets to be judges. Israel went through some turmoil before October 7th totally changed their priorities: there too, like in India, the complaint was that judges are a law unto themselves. This intellectual pipeline that exists b/w the Ivy League and the Indian judiciary needs to be broken, since the Ivy League is no longer the center of intellectual prowess, and in fact hasn't been for a while, what w/ their DEI and other bizarre standards
Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread, but couldn't resist this observation
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