Is it ok that the film ignores this bitter truth about Chamkila? - Page 4

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Grumpydwarf24 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 months ago
#31

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

I have not watched the movie nor do I know much about Chamkila's life.

However, I am not surprised or shocked that his marriage involved domestic violence. Domestic violence and marital rape awareness is very new in India. For a long time, people believed that marital issues were a private and personal problem. People also believed that as the head of the household, the husband had the right to discipline his wife just like he would his children. Some wives, too, would retaliate with belan or throwing steel vessels or chappals. It was treated as a joke or normal "bickering." Today, we know that raising a hand on kids and spouses is wrong and expect far healthier expression of emotions in all relationships. But I mean, even today, there are many people who believe that domestic violence is a part of romantic relationships. Some even believe the husband has the right to sex and there can be no rape in marriage.

Ideally, when you make biopics, you must show the whole truth - the good, the bad, and the ugly about a person's life. However, the Indian audience tends to lack nuance. They see characters as black or white. If someone is a protagonist or the central character, they will celebrate the whole character, including all the bad things that they do. If someone is a villain or antagonist, they see the character as bad and don't like their humanity being shown. Of course, there are exceptions and many audiences are mature to get the difference. But if a filmmaker wants to show someone as a protagonist they will whitewash the character - because some people will celebrate the character's evils while others will reject the character wholly for doing some bad things. This does happen even in the west many times.


I mean I would like to think there is more awareness in Western society about how wrong domestic violence is. As in depth research as Imtiaz did. There is no way he could have missed this. And that shows me to some extent that is still not considered a clear wrong in the East. I mean women are still shamed for divorces. They are forced to stay unhappy for the sake of having a clean reputation. I don't think Imtiaz has even addressed this topic any interview he has done after that fact. Either he does not have an answer or he does not consider it important. The question is Chamkila a respectable man in your eyes despite knowing about his history of domestic violence?


You have seen so many Western films sleeping with the enemy and Enough, Safe Haven that portrays domestic violence as a clear wrong. Were the perpetrators are shown as outright villainous? They show that the woman has every right to want to leave a relationship like that. They never show how did Chamkila get on good terms with Amarjot after deceiving her into a decision that many women considered the most important decision of their lives. They skip over what is considered a huge issue in the West. And not to mention I still feel the film paints them to an extent to be happily married. Go back to the scene right before they get shot at the end. They are shown flirting with each other again. Chamkila is teasing Amarjot about having an exam. And she is also giving the flirtatious response she always gave him. What are we supposed to make of this? I think even though they deliberately or unknowingly wanted to show that deceiving Amarjot was the last of Chamkila's wrongs. Because a domestic abuser does not reason with his wife that she should go to Akadha with him. From the way his sister describes him, I can picture Chamkila grabbing Amarjot by the neck and saying get in the car we are going.


Even in the West spanking your child is still a grey area. I mean it is illegal but many people still do it. I have seen people spanking their children and others not making much of it. But if they saw a man hitting his wife they would think of him as the devil. The difference is a wife is your equal, she is not any less intellect-wise or maturity-wise. You do not need to raise your hand to discipline her and teach her right from wrong. Even though awareness is spreading discipline your child by physical punishment does not teach them much besides violence. It has not become a social taboo yet.


I had a conversation with an Indian man right after he saw the film. He did not even consider Chamkila flawed for deceiving both of his wives. And frauding Amarjot into marrying him. It just shows a lot of education is needed in the East about women's rights still. There needs to be huge campaigns to raise awareness about issues like domestic violence, the right to consent (if a marriage involves deception you have deprived a woman of a very important right), and a whole host of other women's issues. There a lot fo things about Eastern culture that are superior to the West. And domestic violence is still an issue everywhere. I just see more general awareness. I honestly feel unless Imtiaz did not know about Chamkila's history of domestic violence or he was told the sister was not telling the truth. He does not understand how wrong domestic violence is. That is why he has not addressed it. A domestic abuser is not sympathizable for the most part. They are rightly only depicted as villains in Hollywood as they should be.

Edited by Grumpydwarf24 - 7 months ago
Basskarrr thumbnail
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Posted: 7 months ago
#32

Originally posted by: Grumpydwarf24


I had a conversation with an Indian man right after he saw the film. He did not even consider Chamkila flawed for deceiving both of his wives. And frauding Amarjot into marrying him.

He does not understand how wrong domestic violence is. That is why he has not addressed it. A domestic abuser is not sympathizable for the most part. They are rightly only depicted as villains in Hollywood as they should be.

Problem lies with his direction. He showed the deception as not a big deal, the whole panchayat cow bit was done in such a light way, almost in jest. Even suggested that chamkila married his first wife against his will.

I don’t agree that Imitiaz doesn’t think domestic violence is a problem or he lack awareness or education. It’s a directorial choice to show the man as grey and have people focus on the tragedy and his love for music. Bad choice still

I agree with return to hades, this also happens with movies in the west.

Grumpydwarf24 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 months ago
#33

Originally posted by: Basskarrr

Problem lies with his direction. He showed the deception as not a big deal, the whole panchayat cow bit was done in such a light way, almost in jest. Even suggested that chamkila married his first wife against his will.

I don’t agree that Imitiaz doesn’t think domestic violence is a problem or he lack awareness or education. It’s a directorial choice to show the man as grey and have people focus on the tragedy and his love for music. Bad choice still

I agree with return to hades, this also happens with movies in the west.


Yeah, they put humor into a very serious situation. That was anything but funny. I mean his marriage to his first wife was an arranged marriage. I doubt it was against his will. He was 22 during his second marriage. Was he a proper adult during his first marriage? Was he in his teens? An adult is over 18. But they showed him looking very uncomfortable during his first marriage. But the truth his he never divorced his first wife. That also could be because well he felt bad about where would she go? Who would take care of his kid that he had already had with her? In those times the woman would have had no chance at a second marriage. And his first wife Gurmail was also uneducated so she could not be independent. And of course, society blamed the woman for the divorce no matter what. He lived with Amarjot afterward, But he would visit Gurmail and he had another kid with her too.


Yes, some very bad people are shown as grey to make a larger point about society in the west as well.

Maharani69 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 months ago
#34

Originally posted by: Grumpydwarf24


Were his personal and professional life not intermingled anyway. With his wife also being his singer partner.



What I mean by it is that the overarching point was to expose a dysfunctional society that relishes degenerate songs behind closed doors yet crucifies the singer that confronts them with uncomfortable truths about their behavior. Imti wanted to shed light on the dichotomy of these morality/culture ke thakedaars calling for mob justice.

While I don't think he whitewashed Chamkila's misogynistic actions like gifting his first wife a cow to band-aid the hurt he caused or coercing Amarjot into marrying him so that he could continue singing.
I still think it is shameful that he brushed past his domestic abuse (assuming he knew about it).

Maybe he wanted to separate the art from the artist. Still, in Chamkila's case, his personal life was deeply intertwined with his artistic persona because Amarjot was also his singing partner. His domestic abuse is a reflection of him being conditioned by the same degenerate aspects of society he sang about.

Edited by Maharani69 - 7 months ago
TotalBetty thumbnail
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Posted: 7 months ago
#35

How much can they show in a 2,3 hour movie?

Hope somebody will make a TV show or Streaming show and show all his atrocities, and every detail of his life

or just how he treated women

Edited by TotalBetty - 7 months ago
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