Israel & India - Page 4

Another major problem is the funding, majority of funds are sourced from Arab Countries esp Saudi Arabia, sheikhs, they have too much of petro-dollars, they don't know what to do with it and most of that money goes into building terror infrastructure.

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Moderator's Note: Please keep religon out of this debate. No religon advocates violence !!

Edited by Aparna_BD - 17 years ago

Originally posted by: SolidSnake

Another major problem is the funding, majority of funds are sourced from Arab Countries esp Saudi Arabia, sheikhs, they have too much of petro-dollars, they don't know what to do with it and most of that money goes into building terror infrastructure.

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With that money they can well feed the politicians and statesman of the developed countries, who in turn restrain in the research and invention of some alternative for oil as a fuel. If you have watched "Syriana" you would know what kind of dirty games these politicians and oil companies play.

 

Hi

Hot topic going on....eh?

Since this topic is very sensitive and delicate please handle it with extra care.

Plz do not make attacking remarks on religion. Every religion is mixture of both good and bad people. Extremists are there in each and every religion. But you can't blame the religion itself for the terrorism and hurt the feelings of same believes in general. Can you tell that only Christians died in 911 incident or only Hindus died in 711 incident? I personally know a muslim family which was completely shattered after 911 incident. Did terrorism excuse them for being a Muslim? According to the most of discussion here they should have been saved some how miraculously on that day!!

We have to fight against terrorism to save the humanity. But we should not target out just one group of people of same believes.
So my request can we stop bashing the religion here and go back to the original topic of India's next step of terrorism prevention. Can it be like Israel's or not?

Regards
chocolate

Originally posted by: chocolate

Hi

Hot topic going on....eh?

Since this topic is very sensitive and delicate please handle it with extra care.

Plz do not make attacking remarks on religion. Every religion is mixture of both good and bad people. Extremists are there in each and every religion. But you can't blame the religion itself for the terrorism and hurt the feelings of same believes in general. Can you tell that only Christians died in 911 incident or only Hindus died in 711 incident? I personally know a muslim family which was completely shattered after 911 incident. Did terrorism excuse them for being a Muslim? According to the most of discussion here they should have been saved some how miraculously on that day!!

We have to fight against terrorism to save the humanity. But we should not target out just one group of people of same believes.
So my request can we stop bashing the religion here and go back to the original topic of India's next step of terrorism prevention. Can it be like Israel's or not?

Regards
chocolate

Yeah, I agree with what you say.

As world citizens, first we should realize our duties and reponsibilities, then comes country or religious belief. That applies for all. Or a WWIII between one community and the rest of the world is inevitable in near future.

[Quote]But we have already been doing what you have suggested since last 2 decades, but terrorism has only increased and spread to other parts of India. Do you remember when India had amassed its troops on IB after Paliament Attack, the intensity of terror attacks had decreased bec'se Pak Army realised that India is close to using the final option they dread. I am not saying declare an open war against Pak, the least we could do is make symbolic strike against Pak Army installations/Terror Camps. And I support that we should take clandestine ops against them. We can also scrap Indus Water Treaty (no water for Pak), or support "Freedom Fighters" in Baluchistan who are being oppressed by Pak Army.[/Quote]

I don't understand how we've been doing what we haven't been doing. Some of what you are recommending, as in building military and such, are defensive actions, which is in contrast offensive military action. Again, action needs to be taken thoughtfully, and simply taking knee-jerk actions such as attacking specific installations will only create martyrs of those killed (I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done covertly however, but definately not openly). However, taking economic defensive measure, as I have suggested earlier, would be far more effective.

[Quote]I don't get it, the fact that they are killing hundreds of our citizens in bomb blasts, that they support anti-national groups all accross India. I am afraid they have already crossed the limit, these are acts which are against India and deserve a punitive action. And what careful action are you talking about, next time when a blast happens in Delhi, our PM will issue the same rubbish statement, victims will be paid compensation...many families won't be same again. Then more blasts and same thing again.[/Quote]

Please at least attempt to comprehend what I say. Thoughtful action, as I have said repeatedly, involves carefull clandestine planning, and defensive approaches. Taking offensive action is rarely ever successful.
Infact, take a look at Israel; the nation has had numerous terrorist attacks within its borders after pursuing the hardline approaches of Ariel Sharon. Sharon then had a change of heart and formed a new, and more moderate, party. This party pulled out of the Gaza, and correspondingly terrorist activities within Israel fell. People in Israel and Palestine actually believed in some sort of a peaceful future, and the Arab Nations, including the various terrorist organizations, actually recognized Israel and said that they could indeed coexist. This diplomatic breakthrough all went down the toilet after the terrorist organization, Hezbullah, kidnapped two soldiers and the new leader of Israel, Olmert, took to aggressivism. Keep in mind, that the nation of Lebanon never really supported Hezbullah, and this action could very well have fallen on Hezbullah's face because public support (in the Mid East) for it was already waning. Terrorist Activity has now spiked, and the current Israeli policy is doing nothing to stymie it.
The militaristic approach you suggest, at least the offensive parts of it, will do nothing but to create the same situation, if not worse. If you think we are in a bad predicament now, aggressivism will only worsen it.

[Quote]Haha, lekin aapne baat hi aisi likhi...this is what you wrote...no sane person would write this...

India is already a threat to outside countries. The reason that terrorism is so prevalent in India is because no country can wage aggressive open war with India-especially the Middle East Countries (with the except of Israel maybe).[/Quote]

Your petty insults aside, what does my comment have to do with anything contrary to what I have said before? India is a powerful nation and is a threat to outside nations. India is a powerful enough to fight terrorism without taking overtly aggressive measures, and the terrorist attacks have had (and will have) little to no impact on Indian economic and military facilities. Please try to comprehend what you write before you post.

[Quote]So will you support if India breaks all ties/trade/contacts with Pakistan? [/Quote]

That rather than open warfare (or open attacks against 'symbolic' Pakistani areas). Keep in mind there are still dialogues proceeding between Japan and N Korea.

Edited by Prarara - 17 years ago

Prarara, sorry if I offended you.

I agree with some of your points. I think we should first try non-military options like breaking all ties with them. But ruling out Military option completely would be akin to commiting suicide.

I Still don't think that "that particular" statement of yours made sense. And you again wrote...

"India is a powerful nation and is a threat to outside nations. India is a powerful enough to fight terrorism without taking overtly aggressive measures, and the terrorist attacks have had (and will have) little to no impact on Indian economic and military facilities."

I am not getting what exactly you want to say? Are you saying that India being a powerful country should continue to tolerate terror acts? 😕

Originally posted by: SolidSnake

Prarara, sorry if I offended you.

I agree with some of your points. I think we should first try non-military options like breaking all ties with them. But ruling out Military option completely would be akin to commiting suicide.

I Still don't think that "that particular" statement of yours made sense. And you again wrote...

"India is a powerful nation and is a threat to outside nations. India is a powerful enough to fight terrorism without taking overtly aggressive measures, and the terrorist attacks have had (and will have) little to no impact on Indian economic and military facilities."

I am not getting what exactly you want to say? Are you saying that India being a powerful country should continue to tolerate terror acts? 😕

 

That's understandable. Sorry for the misunderstanding, but what I meant to say is that India is a powerful nation, and that terrorist attacks within it will not destroy India as much as create terror in India. We are powerful enough to combat it rationally and calmly while looking at all possible solutions and consequences.

Great! I must admire all of u people to make an imaginary war against Pakistan. U sure need tapping for that..

Wars. Do u know wht happens in wars? Wht are wars? Killings humans for the sake of fulfilling ones bloody wishes.

I don't support terrorism- it kills innocent lives. I have deep condolences on the deaths of people in mumbai bomb blast and their soul rest in peace. My own mother's family suffered horribly becoz of war. Death, destruction everywhere, and i know personally how scary death is.. the sheer fear and uncertainty behind it. And i know wht happens in it.
It is so easy to type on computer sitting in rooms abt wars, so difficult to face the horrible situation. i will be not surprised of anyone supporting war here heard of my death, of a dear ones in a war and then even feel a little bit sad abt it.

Pakistan will be history, Pakistan is this, We will omit Pakistan: Good going guys... But remember i will not let u people talk abt this so easy abt MY country! It is better for me to die instead of hearing this all utter non sense. and plz don't give me suggestion of not making it personal, it is personal... u have INSULTED my Country, so INSULTED me! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!

BTW let me remind all of u people the code of conduct of IF.. Extracts from the points are:

-Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users. Flaming or abusing users in any way will not be tolerated and will lead to a warning.

-Posting messages that are inflammatory and made simply with the intent to provoke disruption to the forum and encourage, incite or continue 'flame' threads.... Flaming is deemed to include insulting, personally directed criticisms and/or posts that include comments aimed to incite anger.... For example, posting to a thread or starting a thread without the intent to contribute positive suggestions or comments. Instead, the aim is negative and disruptive comments.

-This means, if you are engaging in debates that involve challenging, questioning and disputing the opinions and views of others, you are required to do so in a civil manner and ensure that your posts are relevant and on-topic. This rule does not exclude posts that are critical or questioning. It does, however, require that you carefully consider the tone of language in such posts to ensure that they are civil.

and IF's agenda:

- Our goal is to ensure that India-Forum's online forums and chat channels are welcoming environments where people can come together and discuss relevant subjects and topics in a friendly and non-aggressive environment. The purpose of this code of conduct is to ensure that users can participate in the forums and chats without being 'flamed', personally attacked, harassed or be exposed to inappropriate materials. India-Forums values freedom of expression on the site, but not at the expense of offending others.

Finally, After all my country's and my insult, I will not show up on DM for 6 days as a PROTEST! This is the limit u people are crossing!!  And it has become necessarily crucial for me to take this step!

Regards. Edited by MNMS - 17 years ago

MNMS good that u deplore war and war cries, discussions do go off-hand but it is better to discuss by not prejudging a situation.
Nevertheless discussions help you ventilate in a positive manner, yeah I do agree sometimes it goes over board. FActs about the topic should be brought out and not mere conjectures.
The problem with terrorism is that it breeds on religious sentiments too, if some of the participants point out about that it is a reality, but to hold it against any community is wrong and should not be encouraged. I think most of the discussion has been in line with the topic. As a country we have suffered much and yet our people's response has been sobering. let us hope it remains the same, hot heads are everywhere.So cheers and let us have a healthy discussion.       

Today's newspapers are carrying account of family's who have lost the breadwinner and those who have been maimed/ hearing impaired. Also the Indian TV news channels are presenting the interviews where the feeling of sufferers is being shared. In short the agony and loss of sufferers was being shared.

If this does not wrench the human heart then what does?

One thing all would agree is that there is a limit to endurance. But can India do like Israel the answer is resounding No. Not because we are not brave or capable enough but because the country we are dealing with is different. If tomorrow Israel has to deal with Pakistan, no it will not attack it. The reason is simple Pakistan possesses weapons of mass destruction.

What do we do? This is the most important question.

Firstly, Are we really united in fighting the menace called terror? No. Terrorists have been successful in their contemptuous deeds largely because of local support. Who are these traitors who assist them in anti-national activities? What motivates them to do so? Who are their operatives in India and how widespread is their network in India? This is where both IB and R&W have failed.And we as Indians too.

Secondly, which are the countries that can support us in intelligence sharing and tracking terror activities. Apart from US, UK, Russia and EU why can't we seek active & assured support from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, and China to pressurize Pakistan to end its long support to the terrorists. Israel's support for intelligence and technology is surely welcome. The whole World acknowledges that Pakistan is a breeding ground for terrorists so it would be preposterous to deny so.

Thirdly the past glories of our army and police are reminiscent of their bravery & service to nation but they need to prove their honor again in response to the present attacks.

Fourthly we as proud citizens of India should not fall prey to the scheming and break the social fabric instead unite to create a more deeper and stronger bond with each other. Of course be on vigil and help the police/ intelligence.

As regards to M K Gandhi although I do not advocate his preaching's in today's context still respect him for what the Father of the Nation did for fighting for freedom and was respected by all communities something which is commendable. Also many historians regard Gandhiji's policy as most appropriate under those circumstances and political conditions. Finally it was successful.

Just for information the tourists association of Srinagar rallied together condemning the blasts there and to quote them " We want the tourist to visit there as a friend but leave us as a brother".