After effects of Indian Force's actions on Pakistan# 7 - Page 101

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Indian MPs world over spreading the message.

Originally posted by: Reeva_Mohan

How so? It's like saying giving a crippled man crutches is practising ableism.

Let's be real, more than 70% of India still lives in rural areas where discrimination is rampant.

What a horrible comparison. Caste based reservation is promoting casteism. It’s not about crutches to cripples.

And all your posts speak of some fictional data with zero proof because not only does it not exist but why would one need reservations if majority get general cut off.

I don’t think you even grasp the meaning of having reservations for the actual underprivileged (economically needy) vs simply based on caste.

Edited.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Now I am sure you wouldn't remember the cities in which this survey was done..

But let me tell you, such an survey isn't possible in multiple cities for the reasons I already have mentioned because getting data and details of all the successful candidates isn't feasible.

Also it can't be compared to government census for SC ST welfare, the government census is done at specific times, even the NSSO surveys are done at given times with findings published officially at government websites(like Sachhar committee reports). They aren't meant for "only insiders"

This supposed research that you said isn't so. No government websites mention anything similar. Forget government, even if it were done by some big private organisation, the research findings would have been made public unlike this one of yours which only "insiders" have access to(like you said earlier)

Clearly if at all, it was a local survey by some very small private body, and such bodies asking questions on caste in an institute do very much come under discrimination under SC /ST act

Bold: Then how do publications get hold of personal data of various toppers? Even the ones like top 10 or top 20 have their interviews published in various spaces.

Red: Not insiders. He got it from another website which he showed us. I didn’t mean that he had exclusive access to it. By 'access' I meant he knew about the survey. Many people (such as you) do not know about it at all.

Originally posted by: FBIr3port

What a horrible comparison. Caste based reservation is promoting casteism. It’s not about crutches to cripples.

And all your posts speak of some fictional data with zero proof because not only does it not exist but why would one need reservations if majority get general cut off.

I don’t think you even grasp the meaning of having reservations for the actual underprivileged (economically needy) vs simply based on caste.

Bold: If giving persecuted castes reservation is 'promoting casteism', then by the same logic, giving crutches to the crippled man (one who has been crippled by cruel bullies in his childhood) is also promoting 'ableism'. By the same logic, giving free ration to homeless beggars is promoting economic divide. Like I said, doesn't really make sense.

If you think SCs and STs are not 'actually underprivileged' in rural areas of some states, then I'll have to say that you have zero concept about the ground reality in India.

And for the umpteenth time, reservations were NEVER about only economics.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

@bold if the statement is not correct, then there is no reason for giving reservation in the place. If you remember your statement was that the reservations are given because the children from reserved classes especially from poorer sections don't have access to good schools and tutors, thereby they aren't in the same level.

Now if that isn't the case and students can do good irrespective of access to schools and tutors and they in general score over the general cut off then there is no reason to have reservations in exams like NEET and JEE.

How is there any rational that the if the privileged ones get through then rest will follow? Seats are limited and in if those the privileged ones get through, how will others come up?

Remember what I said at the start-- most SCs are backward because they are ostracized by society. Having more SCs in prestigious institutes (even wealthy ones), will lessen the overall ostracization. It will make the upper castes treat them with lesser contempt, it will make them see SCs and STs as equal humans. This, is turn, will create a more equal society where Dalits won't be treated like untouchables in villages. This is the whole idea.

Let the society see wealthy and privileged Dalits. Let them see that Dalits are just humans like them and can be better than them. This job of normalizing Dalit presence is what the creamy layers are doing.

Now, are changes required? Yes, like you said, we can limit reservation up to three generations of a family. That is a feasible concept.

But many people make this 'meritocracy' argument forgetting that merit also requires opportunities to come to surface. You cannot always show merit if you're oppressed and suppressed.

Originally posted by: Reeva_Mohan

Bold: Then how do publications get hold of personal data of various toppers? Even the ones like top 10 or top 20 have their interviews published in various spaces.

Red: Not insiders. He got it from another website which he showed us. I didn’t mean that he had exclusive access to it. By 'access' I meant he knew about the survey. Many people (such as you) do not know about it at all.

Toppers are a few, getting their information is possible, not getting that for thousands of candidates who succeed.you understand there is a difference between 10 and 5000 right.

You had said in a previous post that the person who shared the information had some insider information now you say you meant something else. But the point remains same, if this survey was done by any government agency or by some big private organisation, most people would know about it and everyone would have an access to it. But that's not the case.

None of the government websites have this datasheet, neither it's available over anywhere on the net.

That simply means it's either a fictional survey or by a very small private body.

Although to think of it, if I ever get access to something that's so exclusive that only a limited number of people know about it(and I consider it authentic), I would keep it very cautiously.

You not only don't have any link to that, but also don't remember the body who conducted it, the cities it was conducted in, the research methodology. But only remember the inference

Originally posted by: Reeva_Mohan

Remember what I said at the start-- most SCs are backward because they are ostracized by society. Having more SCs in prestigious institutes (even wealthy ones), will lessen the overall ostracization. It will make the upper castes treat them with lesser contempt, it will make them see SCs and STs as equal humans. This, is turn, will create a more equal society where Dalits won't be treated like untouchables in villages. This is the whole idea.

Let the society see wealthy and privileged Dalits. Let them see that Dalits are just humans like them and can be better than them. This job of normalizing Dalit presence is what the creamy layers are doing.

Now, are changes required? Yes, like you said, we can limit reservation up to three generations of a family. That is a feasible concept.

But many people make this 'meritocracy' argument forgetting that merit also requires opportunities to come to surface. You cannot always show merit if you're oppressed and suppressed.

SCs have been given reservation for 70 years now, huge number of SCs are in higher positions, but have the ostracization ended?? No, that I guess is a proof that some getting on top doesn't make change to the group as a whole. There are many top class SCs and yet the overall perception towards them doesn't change in bottom.

Not just that, it actually gives an opposite perception. People think that these SCs can't compare to ones from UR class, even if they have same (or at times more) resources. If anything it only leads to further down seeing the group.

Also the SC groups among themselves do ostracize . A Dushad/Chamar for example in Bihar doesn't accept the water from a Mushar.

Let's be practical, the only point to reservation is to have every segment get equal representation. It has no longer anything to do with upliftment (it might have been the original thought but no more)