Word sexual harassment and Extra Marital Affair - Page 4

Originally posted by: MuguetDScorpion

It's actually how one sees it. For me the dialogues they use and the speculations make it look like there is more than just the special bond. If they really want people to think it's ony respect they need to work hard on the dialogues, the expressions and the reactions too. For me there is a huge difference between the devaar bhabhi relationship shown in Anupamaa and here in Ghum. And that's just an example. There are many shows were the devaar bhabhi relationship was portrayed briliantly. For example I even see a huge difference between Omkar and Ninad. Omkar looks like he just respects Kaku and sometimes behaves like a chamcha to please her. But I get weird vibes from Ninad. 😕

It doesn't matter friends or not friends. Even a friend can get uncomfortable. So when a friend is asking to stop then one needs to stop. Virat was always wrong that's not even the question. It doesn't actually matter if he is saying it from the beginning or just a day ago, a NO is a NO. If she is still not understanding then it's still harassment even if it took him forever to accept that she was crossing her limits.

exactly I have friends who I can easily hug and friends who I have put in a lets greet each other with words basket.. Friend or not, when denied one has to listen.. Consent and comfort....two important words here..

Originally posted by: janhav

Have a bit of a long reply:

So, Sexual Harassment, as defined by law does not only include the physical act. It also includes the intention of pursuing someone for a relationship, marriage etc without intending to "rape" (a woman, by law, because men are not seen as victims of sexual harassment in India). But one can't say that because someone touched unintentionally but is being stubborn about stalking/being in physical proximity to the person despite their refusal it is not sexual harassment.

Groping and touching inappropriately obviously constitute sexual harassment, but that is just the tip of the iceberg. Even someone (a man) without having any intentions of being in a relationship (with a woman) just touching the person in an act of anger, in a physical fight etc is treated as "sexual harassment". Recently, there was a case where a male Minister of a state touched the collar of a woman doctor while arguing with her and he was accused of sexual harassment.

Here is what constitutes as "SEXUAL HARASSMENT" by law:
a) Physical contact and advances (so, you can’t touch someone inappropriately and think I am innocent because, you know, I didn’t rape)

b) A demand or request for sexual favours

c) Making sexually coloured remarks (so, no sexist jokes or misogynist humour)

d) Showing po-graphy

e) Any other unwelcome physical, verbal or non-verbal conduct of sexual nature.

Laws under Indian Penal Code (IPC)

Section 354 (A): A man committing any physical contact, advances involving unwelcome and explicit sexual overtures; or demanding or requesting sexual favours; or showing po-graphy against the will of a woman; or making sexually coloured remarks, shall be guilty of the offence of sexual harassment.

Section 209: Obscene acts in any public place, singing obscene songs to the annoyance of others (Punishment: Imprisonment for a term of up to 3 months or fine, or both).

Section 509: Uttering any word or making any gesture intended to insult the modesty of a woman. (Words like: item, mast, maal etc..)

So unfortunately men are not seen as victims because law thinks "women cannot rape"... the law is written assuming that the victim is a woman and the perpetrator is a man. But, if you apply these parameters in principle, then questions like:

"Meri life me tumhari kya jagah hai?"

"Sai mein aisa kya hai jo mujh me nahi hai?"

"Main tumhare bedroom mein dinner kyun nahi khaa sakti?"

"Tum apni biwi ke saath apne bedroom mein special moment mana sakte ho... toh ye moment special kyun nahi ho sakta?"
"Tumhari biwi hoti toh usse bhi jaane ko kehte?"
"Hamare guzre huye rishtey ko mat jhootlaao"
actually, amount to sexual harassment because they are pushing the person into a relationship he/she doesn't want -- as per the definitions laid down in law and not because we are replused by the woman in the story.

This - exactly. I posted in another thread also - as per the law anything, including constantly troubling a person who has said no to you, even sending messages / mails when they are not wanted or when the person has set a boundary with you, are counted as sexual harassment. It is not only physical, but also emotional. People do not understand this, which is why awareness programmes are so very important.

I am literally sitting with the Act in front of me and designing a training programme on prevention of sexual harassment in the workplace (it is my work task), and one of the case studies is about a man constantly crossing the boundaries set by a woman. He does not do anything "sexual" per se - he sends her flowers and then sends her messages asking her out. She is very unhappy and uncomfortable about this. This is construed as him creating a "hostile environment" for her, and comes under the head of sexual harassment.

Absolutely agree with the original post's take on EMA. I don't think Ninad is pushing for one. In fact I think he'd be shocked to know what Pakhi actually feels for Virat.

Originally posted by: Roch

She craves his attention more than anything. She has to be important for him. She not only has a problem with Sai but also with his mother.

Also had she been around Samrat things would have been different, at the moment that woman is lonely and she sees the main who gave her this pain is moving ahead in life. Hence she blames Sai. As rightly said by you it could have been any woman than Sai.

Currently with the situation she is in and the way she is behaving she is only giving herself the pain.

Even i didnt feel anything wrong in the scene which was presented, but the dialogue in the end was the problem. Which said i could go at any lengths for what i want.

Otherwise her concerns for Virat are genuine, probably the only person she genuinely cares about.

1st she agreed to marry her mistake, her father gave her choice to step out of the marriage she dint, when u stick to the decision you give time to it, you invest time to it, but the man who she was married left her on the 2nd day of marriage, she was alone

u know Roch I have said this earlier also, marriage was not the solution her parents should have given time to her to come out of the mess she was in, she was heartbroken she felt cheated, she was someone believed in love and falling in love so when she meet Virat she felt a lot, but when Virat dint recognized her voice which was stupid of her she blocked him, she dint even cared to introduce herself she thought Virat was some random guy who flirted with her and played with her emotions,

and the table turns when she found out Virat is her BIL, I also have this thought as to why Pakhi is so negative towards sai, and that’s coz sai was that person for whom Virat fought with the family and not her, that is her problem, if sai was that docile and Virat despite married was indifferent to her she would have been okay, but Virat was different with her, she expected Virat to take a stand for her but he dint took that’s where the problem is,

The problem is further more increased when Virat dint stopped her at the very inception, jo bow te ho who pate ho, Virat is facing the problem now, and soon the entire CN will

Have a bit of a long reply:

So, Sexual Harassment, as defined by law does not only include the physical act. It also includes the intention of pursuing someone for a relationship, marriage etc without intending to "rape" (a woman, by law, because men are not seen as victims of sexual harassment in India). But one can't say that because someone touched unintentionally but is being stubborn about stalking/being in physical proximity to the person despite their refusal it is not sexual harassment.

Groping and touching inappropriately obviously constitute sexual harassment, but that is just the tip of the iceberg. Even someone (a man) without having any intentions of being in a relationship (with a woman) just touching the person in an act of anger, in a physical fight etc is treated as "sexual harassment". Recently, there was a case where a male Minister of a state touched the collar of a woman doctor while arguing with her and he was accused of sexual harassment.

Here is what constitutes as "SEXUAL HARASSMENT" by law:
a) Physical contact and advances (so, you can’t touch someone inappropriately and think I am innocent because, you know, I didn’t rape)

b) A demand or request for sexual favours

c) Making sexually coloured remarks (so, no sexist jokes or misogynist humour)

d) Showing po-graphy

e) Any other unwelcome physical, verbal or non-verbal conduct of sexual natur

So unfortunately men are not seen as victims because law thinks "women cannot rape"... the law is written assuming that the victim is a woman and the perpetrator is a man. But, if you apply these parameters in principle, then questions like:

"Meri life me tumhari kya jagah hai?"

"Sai mein aisa kya hai jo mujh me nahi hai?"

"Main tumhare bedroom mein dinner kyun nahi khaa sakti?"

"Tum apni biwi ke saath apne bedroom mein special moment mana sakte ho... toh ye moment special kyun nahi ho sakta?"
"Tumhari biwi hoti toh usse bhi jaane ko kehte?"
"Hamare guzre huye rishtey ko mat jhootlaao"
actually, amount to sexual harassment because they are pushing the person into a relationship he/she doesn't want -- as per the definitions laid down in law and not because we are replused by the woman in the story.

Exactly 💯

Harassment is not always physical or sexual

It can be emo too.

When I was 22 a person used to send me lewd texts ..it make me question my dressing my behaviour .. luckily for me my bro noticed my change in behaviour and pushed me to confess . He made me confront that person and helped me tell his parents his behaviour. His father is a good man and I felt I need to give him this one chance for his sake

For years it made me wary of strange men..even to date off colour jokes make innocently make me uncomfortable

I always have believed that Ninad and Bhavani doesn't have anything between them and even now that is not what he meant. Ninad keeps Bhavani in high regards, respects her as an elder, admires her as if she is their guru (because of all their evil acts). Only complaint with that guy is that not just he is an evil person, he has been forever unfair with Ashwini and I hate that guy for his disrespectful attitude towards his spouse. He was also responsible for Devi's state. Him giving respect to Bhavani isn't a problem, but it should not be by disrespecting and insulting Ashwini.

I will talk about Virat's fault or not in this Vani.

Virat was at fault in the beginning period after he got married by telling her in GC that he still loved her, by telling that he lost his pyaari cheez lookint at Pakhi, by sharing the DIG problem with Pakhi and not with Sai, by stopping Ashwini when she tried to question him during Ladakh trip, by stopping Sai to confront Pakhi during Ladakh trip, by staying quiet when she said that she will pack in the same bag (even if Sai had interrupted, not that he cannot add on to what Sai had said or he cannot correct her after Sai spoke).

Even though, he had told on the 1st day of his marriage on the terrace that she is only his brother's wife and friend, his empathy, his guilt, him feeling sorry for her during the rasams, during the photo session, during the 1st night, and then pyaari cheez dialogue is where Virat went wrong and gave mixed signals. I could have missed something but that was at the very beginning stage.

But Virat has always told her that she should accept his and Sai's relationship. He has said that no one should have problems if he spends time with Sai.

Yes, he wasn't too stern or strict a few times when she starts to cry or get sad.

Will say where his fault was other than the above :

Virat was at fault by letting her coming in between him and Sai.

He was at fault by giving her so much authority (indirectly) that she shouts or taunts Sai.

He was at fault by staying silent when she has been disrespectful towards his mom and by not correcting her at the right time.

He was at fault by feeling guilty for her sufferings so much that he was acting empathetic towards her when it wasn't needed.

He was at fault by stopping her in this house for Samrat.

But it is NOT Virat's fault that she is harassing him.

His fault can be a reason

for her to misunderstand him,

for her to have feelings for him (not entirely though but definitely not after he had told her on the day after Sai went to PD). His statement was loud and clear on that day. If not atleast on the day when he returned from GC recently

for her to create a rift between him and Sai,

for her to act with so much authority with Sai sometimes.

But his fault cannot be a reason

for her to keep insisting that she wants a place in his life,

for her to keep pursuing him even after he has said that Sai is his wife and he likes Sai

for her to keep insisting that he has dinner with her in his room

for her to keep taunting, whether be it on the day Sai went to PDs house or after Sai was ousted, by saying Sai is only important for him

for her to be playing with his emotions and insecurities

for her to keep trying to get his attention by asking him to call her when he was leaving for the mission

for staying in the hospital room knowing that he wouldn't approve of it or he wouldn't like it (she knew it, she herself said that in the hospital)

for touching his forehead when he was asleep (violation of his private space)

for her to have taken so much time to answer when he wanted to know about his wife

for her to have taken time to hand over his phone to him

for her to stay in the room even after he had asked her to leave

for her to stop Sai from entering the room, well aware of the fact that Virat wanted to desperately meet Sai

and for her to decide things for him like saying I know what should I do.

Her helping him when he was about to fall was a help, trying to help him lie down can be a help but all those are something which he wouldn't have liked her to do and it happened only because she forcefully stayed in his room knowing well that he wouldn't like it. She cannot be inconsiderate towards his wishes on these. He wasn't even in his conscious to protest it, it is a kind of violation of a person's personal space and comfort.

In the the last 5 points above, she was not just harassing a person but a patient who was feeling weak and helpless. The point where she stops Sai, it is not just that she is being unfair to a wife, she was being ruthless/heartless to a patient who wanted to meet his wife, making him go through emotional suffering.

The emotional suffering that she gives everytime by taunting about Sai, by playing with his emotions, his insecurities are too much.

Most importantly

expecting that he thinks about her as his lover, not just expecting, pushing him too,

expecting him to forget his wife,

pushing him to accept her,

keeping him away from his wife whom he needs very badly are all harassment, clearly harassment.

And none of these are Virat's faults. His mistakes cannot be a reason or doesn't give her rights to harass him. I hated the very first day when he was so messed up after ousting Sai, she harassed him to have dinner with him, she has been crossing all lines and Virat cannot be held responsible for her to be harassing him. I am sorry, I disagree.

Tagging a few friends in case they are interested.

Originally posted by: Saichintalli

I completely agree with ninad Kaku part , yes they are not pointing towards EMA but ninad want to make pakhi as Kaku in virat's life....

But while coming to sexual harassment thing...

Yes she is helping virat , no denail in that front but she is mentally harassing him, just imagine a girl in virat's place with her ex in the room behaving the same... If you are not comfortable even touching shoulder is inappropriate.... If we only consider pakhi helping scene , it seems like helping but nothing else, but if we see the whole situation then don't you think it is bad, stopping a mother ( ignoring her kind of not stopping aai)and a wife from coming to him and then staying in his room when she clearly know he is uncomfortable with this act and trying to caressing his hair....

I agree for her it's love but according to me if the person is not comfortable with our touch , it's wrong, don't you think so, it might not completely come under sexual harassment but it do come under harassment.

babe, she never stopped a mother she said I am not stopping don’t stop me either and u know better I had told that he has lost it completely, Kuch nhi ho sakta iska,

the line of action is different harassment includes intention, she wasn’t touching him inappropriately she was trying to help which he denied, I am not justifying any other action of her but harassment is different, I can tell from my own experience won’t say further but I know how harassment is, there is a constant, and what she was doing wanst harassment

Originally posted by: asmi_joya

I have also mentioned both the cases in my previous and recent posts..

Where was the care when that guy in weak voice kept asking about Sai and kept coughing and yet she denied answering till he persisted.. ..instead of calling the doctor she wanted to be praised for standing on feet..is it not what we do when the patient is conscious after 12-14 hr of being unconscious to check the vitals? Where was the concern when he removed his mask and was talking with difficulty and she not even asked once to put it back.. where was the concern when he requested her to step out since it was not fine for her to be their in the absence of their respective spouses....and she wanted him to clarify again and again her position in life compared to Sai.. Where was the concern when she said she would do what she thinks is right deciding to stay back when he denied her to even be in that room?

So u term is as harassment, pakhis sole motive was to get acknowledge which she wanted and which she dint get, she cringed because virat dint acknowledged, the dynamics u are talking about was to be taken at the inception, where very conveniently in the name of dosti u give her right to intervene i his personal matters

Virat had changed his attitude in two days, he too had ample of opportunities to clarify, he did neither to Pakhi nor sai, Chalo he said Pakhi ones but what did he do stop her,

and leave if the reaction you are saying is harassment then more than Virat sai has been harassed yet we want Sairat together,

Originally posted by: laksh

I always have believed that Ninad and Bhavani doesn't havs anything between them and even now that is not what he meant. Ninad keeps bhavani in high regards, respects her as an elder, admires her as if she is their guru (because of all their evil acts). Only complaint with that guy is that not just he is an evil person, he has been forever unfair wirh Ashwini and I hate that guy for his disrespect attitude towards his spouse. He was also responsible for Devi's state. Him giving respect to Bhavani isn't a problem, not by disrespecting and insulting Ashwini.

I will talk about Virat's fault or not in this Vani.

Virat was at fault in the beginning period after he got married by telling her in GC that he still loved her, by telling he lost pyaari cheez, by sharing the DIG problem with Pakhi and not with Sai, by stopping Ashwini when she tried to question him during Ladakh trip, by stopping Sai to confront Pakhi during Ladakh trip, by staying quiet when she said that she will pack in the samw bag (even if Sai had interrupted, not that he cannot add on to what Sai had said or he cannot correct her after Sai spoke).

Even though, he had told on the 1st day of his marriage on the terrace that she is only his brother's wife and friend, his empathy, his guilt, him feeling sorry for her during the rasams, during the photo session, during the 1st night, and then pyaari cheez dialogue is where Virat went wrong and gave mixed signals. I could have missed something but that was at the very beginning stage.

But Virat has always told her that she should accept his and Sai's relationship. He has said that no one should have problems if he spends time with Sai.

Yes, he wasn't too stern or strict a few times when she starts to cry or get sad.

Will say where his fault was other than the above :

Virat was at fault by letting her coming in between him and Sai.

He was at fault by giving her so much authority indirectly that she shouts or taunts Sai.

He was at fault by staying silent when she has been disrespectful towards his mom and not correcting her at the right time.

He was at fault by feeling guilty for her sufferings so much that he was acting empathetic towards her when it wasn't needed.

He was at fault by stopping her in this house for Samrat.

But it is NOT Virat's fault that she is harassing him.

His fault can be a reason

for her to misunderstand him,

for her to have feelings for him not entirely though but definitely not after he had told her on the day after Sai went to PD. His statement was loud and clear on that day. If not atleast on the day he returned from GC recently .

for her to create a rift between him and Sai,

for her to act with so much authority with Sai sometimes.

But his fault cannot be a reason

for her to keep insisting that she wants a place in his life,

for her to keep pursuing him even after he has said that Sai is his wife and he likes her

for her to keep insisting that he has dinner with him in his room

for her to keep taunting whether be it on the day Sai went to PDs house or after Sai was ousted by saying Sai is only important for him

for her to be playing with his emotions and insecurities

for her to keep trying to get his attention by asking him to call her

for staying in the room knowing that he wouldn't approve of it or he wouldn't like it (she knew it, she herself said that in the hospital)

for touching his forehead when he was asleep (violation of his private space)

for her to have taken so much time to answer when he wanted to know about his wife

for her to have taken time to hand over his phone to him

for her to stay in the room even after he had asked her to leave

for her to stoo Sai from entering the room, well aware of the fact that Virat wanted to desperately meet Sai

and for her to decide things for him like I know what should I do.

In the lhe last 5 points above, she was not just harassing a person but a patient who would have felt weak and helpless. The point where she stops Sai, it is not just she us unfair to a wife, she has been ruthless for a patient to meet his wife, making him go through emotional suffering.

The emotional suffering that she gives everytime by taunting about Sai, by playing with his emotions, his insecurities are too much.

Most importantly

expecting that he thinks about her as his lover, not just expecting, pushing him too,

expecting him to forget his wife,

pushing him to accept her,

keeping him away from his wife whom he needs

very badly are all harassment, clearly harassment.

And none of these are Virat's faults. His mistakes cannot be a reason or doesn't give her rights to harass him. I hated the very first day when he was so messed up after ousting Sai, she harassed him to have dinner with him, she has been crossing all lines and Virat cannot be held responsible for her harassing him. I am sorry, i disagree.

Tagging a few friends in case they are interested.

I certainly agree to everything you have said and thats what my points have been from the beginning.. Virat is wrong in Pakhi being the way she is.. But when he is being harassed after what has transpired in the last week does not put him responsible for being harassed..

I also yesterday pointed out that Ninad certainly does not have romantic feelings for BK.. He respects her for what she has done for the family, when the eldest brother lost his life too early and thinks Ashwini is trying to come in between the respect since Ashwini dislikes the fact that he never even tried to consider her wishes in this marriage..For instance he never fought for her education.. Ninad insults Aswhini...dislikes her and BK allows it to happen.. He takes decisions pertaining to Ashiwni by consulting BK and not Ashwini..that is the problem she has with their relationship.. Sonali would not have that complain because her husband loves her.. apologises to her.. takes care of her.. Ninad does nothing and just loaths his wife.. and hence the moment she utters w ord against BK , he thinks she is coming in between..

He has perceived Sai's relationship with Virat that way only majorily because the marriage was an unwanted one for him.. and Patralekha is someone who is trying to bring in discipline and sanskar in CN while Sai choses to revolt it like Ashwini..

Originally posted by: asmi_joya

exactly I have friends who I can easily hug and friends who I have put in a lets greet each other with words basket.. Friend or not, when denied one has to listen.. Consent and comfort....two important words here..

Exactly, same way there are friends with whom I can talk dirty but there are friends I simply can't. Sometimes there friends with whom I am so close but won't talk openly on few topics or even touch each other but will do it with a friend I am least close to. So the concent and comfort are two things really important and one needs to understand and accept that.

Originally posted by: maahi11

So u term is as harassment, pakhis sole motive was to get acknowledge which she wanted and which she dint get, she cringed because virat dint acknowledged, the dynamics u are talking about was to be taken at the inception, where very conveniently in the name of dosti u give her right to intervene i his personal matters

Virat had changed his attitude in two days, he too had ample of opportunities to clarify, he did neither to Pakhi nor sai, Chalo he said Pakhi ones but what did he do stop her,

and leave if the reaction you are saying is harassment then more than Virat sai has been harassed yet we want Sairat together,

@bold Again consent is the keyword here.. If Sai wants to stay with Virat and Virat wants to stay with Sai.. no one can question it..

@blue One day ..two day.. a minute or a second.. NO is a NO.. By a man or a woman.. NO has to be considered.

Virat is wrong sure....but cannot be blamed for getting harassed.

@ red Pakhi surely does not intend sexual harassment, but what she is doing right now even if its for his attention,his acknowledgement forcing herself in his space after multiple denial.. is harassment..

Maahi I dont really want to argue on this.,,. thats not my intention..Genuinely.. I might be coming across toxic negative to a lot of forum members today.. But I still want to hold my point here.. just wanted to let you know.. even a person gives mixed signals.. even he flirts...even he invites for a one night stand ....the moment he days no..it has to end there...if at the end of the day, if someone enters his personal space after a lot of denial.. its wrong and is harassment..

I am extremely sorry if by putting out my opinion I have come across negative/rude/argumentative/aggressive..