*edited* Any thoughts from Urdu speakers on Urdu in Bollywood songs? - Page 8

Originally posted by: flipfl0p

I did not say that, “you said” Urdu is most beautiful.

I said that was the convention in India till a decade. I said, even I was following the same convention, trying to understand the Urdu words in Gulzar poetry.

I don’t dislike Urdu or English. But I am against common people getting graded because of their language/accent.

There was a time when Kangana was mocked for her English. That was just an elitist attitude, which many nepotistic kids harbour in Bollywood. What is so great about Shashi Tharoor’s English? He had different schooling than she had. That’s it. That does not mean, I dislike English.

Till English replaced it, Urdu enjoyed this elite status in India. (Like “this person has such impeccable Urdu” etc). My rant is only against this special status. Not against any language.

I like Jackie Shoff’s style best. Yes. His Urdu/English/Hindi nothing might be great. But he cuts it straight.

(I did say “la” sound exists in Sanskrit. I said, it is not available in Hindi)

Fair. But this thread is not meant to grade common people speaking casually. This is for professional singers who are singing in a chosen language (it could be any other language say Marathi, Telugu, etc this thread is specifically for Urdu).

The only reason Hindi / Urdu was considered elite was due to the Mughals / Nawabs / Nizams. Had English not arrived Hindi could have engulfed all regional languages from India. But now English has come to engulf everything. 😆

Everyone has their likes and dislikes. The reason I like Urdu is mostly due to the Persian influence. That adds a zing to poetry for me.

Originally posted by: flipfl0p

South Indian language’s script looks different. But vocally we sound similar to Sanskrit. There is only one way of pronouncing it. (Rigid sound structure is common with all Indian languages).

I think Tamil does not have a letter for “Sh”. They only have “S”. Similarly they don’t have “Ka”. They have only “Ga”. Most of Tamil vocabulary does not need these letters. So if a villager uses these “foreign sounds” (non native/non Tamil), he will mix it up. (Shiv becomes Siv).

Just like Persian (which uses “f” and “z” sounds), we do have sounds that are unfamiliar to Hindi speaking people. We also have specific letter to denote those sounds.

For example, My language has a specific “La” sound which is different (and apart) from Hindi/English “La”. We have a specific letter to denote it. (It was in original Sanskrit. Later dropped down in Hindi).

Sometimes Tamilians use “zh” in English to note that special “La” . Actually Tamil itself is mispronounced by outsiders. It is the other “l” in the word.

Similarly Tamil has one special type of “Ra” apart from the usual “Ra”. But Hindi/English does not use that sound in their language. They cannot differentiate between two sounds (Two different “La”s and two different “Ra”s) either.

Hindi does not use (for that matter, any Indian language) “f” and “z” sounds in their vocabulary. So it was not required for Hindi to have equivalent letter for “z” and “f”.
Add to that, the rigid structure of pronouncing the letter, it gets difficult to reproduce those words in our language. Unless one is familiar with those words, it is difficult to make out how they sound from the script. Be it Persian or Tamil.

My funda is simple. Either accept Zindagi = Jindagi.

If you have trouble with the way people pronounce it, don’t bring in Zindagi at all.
But pulling that word in vocabulary, then telling people that they cannot pronounce properly is not done.

Don’t create hierarchy between people because they can’t pronounce a word, which was not native to begin with. No Hindi person is looked down because they cannot pronounce “Tamil” properly.

WOW, Thanks for explaining in detail...so Tamil also is spoken as its written...

@ bold...I really really apologize if anything I said came along like that when the intention was not...I am discussing purely in technical terms.....it has nothing to do with any language being better than the other....we were discussing just in BW terms or when language is used as an art.....I mean Katrina has been bashed for years for not getting the diction right.....because when people pay and go watch a movie....diction matters....I am sure if a Hindi speaking person acts in a Tamil movie.....u want them to get the diction right and not butcher the language....I am discussing just from that point....nothing to do with people being looked down upon because they don't know a certain language...that would be ridiculous.....because if I look down at a person not speaking Hindi correct...I am giving a free hand to all the people from other languages look down upon me because I don't know their language...this is not how it should work...I personally don't associate any pride with any language...

If I was to speak a Tamil word wrong...and someone corrects me...its fine...what is the shame in that....I don't know it...I got corrected by someone who knows better than me...not everyone is supposed to know everything.

I rem Javed Akhtar saying somewhere that the singers these days pronounce the word Phool as Fool..whereas the correct pronunciation is Phool.That ways I think the earlier singers were better than the present ones.

Originally posted by: Unconventional

I rem Javed Akhtar saying somewhere that the singers these days pronounce the word Phool as Fool..whereas the correct pronunciation is Phool.That ways I think the earlier singers were better than the present ones.

I have a wild theory for that. 😃

If I'm not wrong (and please correct me if I am) in Marathi फ is usually pronounced as F (फ़) and not Pha. Now Bollywood being based in Mumbai, most of the folks would've studied Marathi. It is possible they see फूल (Phool) and pronounce it as Fool due to the Marathi influence. And from Bollywood it just percolated everywhere.

Originally posted by: tapori

I have a wild theory for that. 😃

If I'm not wrong (and please correct me if I am) in Marathi फ is usually pronounced as F (फ़) and not Pha. Now Bollywood being based in Mumbai, most of the folks would've studied Marathi. It is possible they see फूल (Phool) and pronounce it as Fool due to the Marathi influence. And from Bollywood it just percolated everywhere.

And I just remembered that Phantom movies animation itself is confusing 😆

They write फ and actually pronounce and in general mean it to be फ़

So that is the root for confusion in Fa and Pha.

https://youtu.be/6sBRw_58kN0

Originally posted by: Unconventional

I rem Javed Akhtar saying somewhere that the singers these days pronounce the word Phool as Fool..whereas the correct pronunciation is Phool.That ways I think the earlier singers were better than the present ones.

Javed Akhter se yaad aaya.😆..Fame Gurukul reality show....JA used to throw a fit everytime someone sang with a wrong diction😆

Originally posted by: blue-ice.1

Javed Akhter se yaad aaya.😆..Fame Gurukul reality show....JA used to throw a fit everytime someone sang with a wrong diction😆

Ke ainve tainu miliya mudke tu aaja

Tu har vele kehndi se down down for me

Ni mere jeha varga labhke dakaja

Baby tu…

Ni kudiye bhul naa jaa

Saade pyaar diyaan mulaqaata

Ni kudiye bhul jaawan

This ?

Originally posted by: MunnaBadnamHua

fame gurukul main qazi toqeer ka bhut craze tha tab toh SM itna bhi nh tha

Qazi Tauqeer fan here...*runs away*😆

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC3UbTf4qrM

Originally posted by: blue-ice.1

Qazi Tauqeer fan here...*runs away*😆

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC3UbTf4qrM

This song title always confused me. Just what is an Afghan jalebi? 😆