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AninditaB thumbnail
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Posted: 2 months ago
#31

That's Uttara Ramayana or Uttara Kaand you're talking about. It's not clear who had added those verses but many scholars have an opinion that it was added in 4th Century CE-6 Century CE.


Tulsidas's Shri RamcharitaManas which is a long poem on Ramayana in Awadhi language has an abrupt ending with Shri Rama and Shri Sita going back to Ayodhya after the victory and the coronation. It is said that He couldn't bear the pain of Sita in later parts of Ramayana, so he didn't add in Shri RamcharitaManas

lkdaswani thumbnail
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Posted: 2 months ago
#32

Oh yeah! That's Uttara Ramayana! Couldn't recall the name. 😛
But why is it amusing then? Apologies, I seem to be a bit slow today. 🙈🤦🏾‍♀️
I am unaware of the history between Tulsidas Ji and Akbar- only know bits and pieces involving an arrest of some sort.


Edited by lkdaswani - 2 months ago
So-So thumbnail
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Posted: 2 months ago
#33

As far as I know, there's no historical evidence or record that Akbar imprisoned Tulsidas. There's no evidence of any conflict or interaction between Akbar and Tulsidas. Some believe Tulsidas wrote to Abdur Rahim Khan I Khanan about his behaviour while giving alms to the poor.

lkdaswani thumbnail
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Posted: 2 months ago
#34

I don't know if it's a story or historical fact but it's said that Akbar heard about Tulsidas via Rahim and Todarmal and asked Tulsidas Ji to visit his court, on his denial he was forcibly bought and asked to perform a miracle.
Akbar was denied again and at this, he imprisoned Tulsidas ji where he composed Hanuman Chalisa.
This composition bought thousands of monkeys which surrounded Fatehpur Sikri...

Again, I will repeat, I don't know whether this is fact or fiction.

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Posted: 2 months ago
#35

Exactly, what you've written is the story that is being told. I don't know if it's a fact either, it is said that there is no historical record of it. It will remain a historical mystery

lkdaswani thumbnail
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Posted: 2 months ago
#36

Indeed, it will remain a mystery...much like many things about that time. ❤️

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Posted: 2 months ago
#37

Happy Janmashtami, guys! smiley31 I hope everyone's having a nice day aaj! smiley40

IshqHaiWoEhsaas thumbnail
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Posted: 2 months ago
#38

Originally posted by: lkdaswani

I don't know if it's a story or historical fact but it's said that Akbar heard about Tulsidas via Rahim and Todarmal and asked Tulsidas Ji to visit his court, on his denial he was forcibly bought and asked to perform a miracle.
Akbar was denied again and at this, he imprisoned Tulsidas ji where he composed Hanuman Chalisa.
This composition bought thousands of monkeys which surrounded Fatehpur Sikri...

Again, I will repeat, I don't know whether this is fact or fiction.

It is fiction indeed, but while we're at it, why not mention the complete story? smiley17

Copying from wikipedia for that is the only place where this story is mentioned: "Ever since, Akbar became a close friend of Tulsidas and he also ordered a firman that followers of Rama, Hanuman, and other Hindus, were not to be harassed in his kingdom."

I'm 100% sure this story is false, because it makes zero practical sense for someone as shrewd as Akbar to imprison a religious figure of the same people he wanted to "appease". Also makes zero sense for Tulsidas Ji to maintain friendship with a close aide of Akbar (Rahim) after he had been so badly treated at the court. Also makes zero sense for Akbar to go after a Saint that Rahim revered so much, given that he is known to have had immense affection for his step-son. Also makes zero sense because Akbar was literally issuing farmans for protection of saints around his Empire, why question a single one if he was okay with the rest? (I've linked the farman in the Janmashtami post).

But then I've heard such stupid and vile stories on the internet about him, this one seems pretty tame and I'm okay if people choose to believe it, given they also believe the later close friendship that apparently emerged. smiley4

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Posted: 2 months ago
#39

My replies are in bold.

Originally posted by: AninditaB

Hello. An interesting thread for sure!!! I wouldn't also like to chip in for discussions but again I am not an history student or have that taste to read books related to it smiley36. Still I would like to provide my two cents for sure.

Glad to see you here! smiley4

1. For me of all the conquests, Chittor siege has to be the biggest blot in Akbar's life and for Maharana Pratap too. Akbar was cruel, imagine killing someone with slow poison, so that the person doesn't die immediately but with each every passing second. That's what he did. Killed the people slowly for 4 months, stopping their rations and food, so that the royals became desperate at least for their citizens. And after that killing everyone possible, women, children, old aged, handicapped. It was an unbecoming of a person who went to preach religious unity. Moreover, he considered the win as some regilious win, calling it as Jihad!!! I can't ever forget this even if he mended his ways. I guess after that he rarely went for annexations and fights.

Absolutely, I shudder to think of the barbarity that was unleashed on the innocents of Chittor. And I struggle to reconcile that image of Akbar with the one that we see on the show and have grown to love. It is truly the single largest blot on his legacy, and absolutely un-erasable no matter what.

Two things that I would like to correct, though: 1) It was unbecoming for someone who preached unity, yes. But the Akbar of 1568 (the year of Chittor) was not yet preaching religious unity or peace or anything. All that comes later, then he was just another ruler looking to expand his territory by hook or by crook. 2) The Fatehnama-i-Chittor is a tough read indeed.. I couldn't believe it when I first came across it. However, the reason why he called it jihad/religious win was more to use religion as a motivating force for his soldiers than it was a reflection of his own beliefs. Politicians then and now are smart people who use religion to let the common man fight their battles - religion is a great force, people are ready to die and kill for it. If you remember, it's exactly like Khilji uses the flag falling to motivate his despairing soldiers in Padmaavat. It is not a justification of the barbarity by any means, just an argument for Akbar's religious views. He was a cruel barbarian indeed, but never a religious bigot. Chittor was fought solely for political purposes, but given the colour of religion because that works better on the ground. He had been as cruel in his treatment of the Muslim rebellions against him, or in his siege of the Muslim kingdoms of Gujarat. Basically, he wasn't there to kill Hindus, but literally everyone who opposed him. That doesn't make him any better, but it helps one understand the continuity in his religious views at least - they do not change overnight.

I know you're not interested in the reading of History specifically, but I highly recommend reading this old post by a fellow Forum member, it clearly mentions the atrocities of Chittor and Akbar's motivations behind it: https://mariam-uz-zamani.blogspot.com/2015/08/fatehnama-i-chittor-mughal-rajput-war-last-pt7.html

2. He seemed to have a heavy reliance on Ameris. I have read somewhere that when he used to go to wars, Ameris used to protect the Haram and Palace. It shows that he used to believe them more than his own relatives. And Man Singh was considered as his Farzand (son), Daniyal was given to Ameris for raising, Bhagwant Das was given important responsibilities.

Yup, all of this is mentioned in the Akbarnama itself. When he went on his Gujarat campaign, he left Raja Bharmal in charge of his Harem and palace, which was the biggest deal possible and one can't find such a parallel of absolute trust anywhere else in my opinion! The other things are true as well. Ameris were definitely more family to him than his own family... somewhere in 1603/1604, when one by one all his loved one are dying and he's increasingly alone, he calls Man Singh back from Bengal and asks him to stay with him. Speaks volumes about the emotional support he would've been to Akbar!

3. I also find very sad that Mariam Uz Zamani's bane isn't mentioned anywhere in the texts. Her whole family was important for Akbar and yet her name is missing. She seemed to be an influential woman, who used to trade. Even Jahangir also helped her but her real name isn't mentioned. Even Mariam Makani Hamida Banu or Shah Begum's Man Bai name is present but not any solid proof of name of Mariam Uz Zamani.

It is sad, indeed. But also, the fact that despite such obviously malicious effort to erase her name, not only is she still known but also highly admired. Her name might not have been mentioned, or deliberately suppressed later, but her amazing personal achievements and Akbar's high regard for her have definitely immortalized her.

Yes, her whole family and she herself was VERY important for Akbar, but none of the royal females are mentioned by name in the Akbarnama. No one, including Ruqaiya, Salima, Hamida Banu, Man Bai, Bakshi etc. By her title, Mariam-uz-Zamani is mentioned literally everywhere - Akbarnama, Jahangirnama, Khulasat-ut-Tawarikh, and her own farmaans which call her "Wali Nimat Mariam-uz-Zamani Begum Sahiba". The monuments built by her - the Shahi Mosque of Lahore and the Baoli at Bayana, both have her title inscribed on them also.

AninditaB thumbnail
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Posted: 2 months ago
#40

Happy Janmashtami everyone present here!!

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