Imtiaz Ali and the manic pixie dream girl - Page 3

Originally posted by: Grumpydwarf24

It does not have to be about professional evolution. Like I said going from a womanizer to a man who finds his emotional core is a far more in-depth journey. Then becoming slightly more secure of yourself.

No, of course it isn't (at least not in JHMS). It's exactly like you write...it's an "in-depth journey"...imo, with the same value for both of them...only that Sejal acts earlier on her evolution and Harry still needs a male friend to act on it. Sejal did become more secure than only "slightly", I think.

Harry isn't a 'womanizer-by-heart', but out of loneliness and opportunity.

As for Tamasha...I agree until the moment where Ved has to do his "in-depth jouney" himself and it's the storyteller who works as a catalyst.

There obviously are similarities and favoured subjects in Imtiaz' movies, but still they are different. With that MPDG-theory, I'm just tempted to (re-)watch his movies from Socha Na Tha to Chamkila (including the 3 he had been writer but not director)...

To this I say what I said to a dear friend while discussing a recent crush :

"Yahan zinda rehne ki mental energy nahi milti, admiyon par kya hi waste karna."

The idea of real manic pixies existing or being one (men really just do not understand that women's kindness is not a free pass to expect free therapy from us) in this dystopian world is too tiring lol

Originally posted by: Clochette

No, of course it isn't (at least not in JHMS). It's exactly like you write...it's an "in-depth journey"...imo, with the same value for both of them...only that Sejal acts earlier on her evolution and Harry still needs a male friend to act on it. Sejal did become more secure than only "slightly", I think.

Harry isn't a 'womanizer-by-heart', but out of loneliness and opportunity.

As for Tamasha...I agree until the moment where Ved has to do his "in-depth jouney" himself and it's the storyteller who works as a catalyst.

There obviously are similarities and favoured subjects in Imtiaz' movies, but still they are different. With that MPDG-theory, I'm just tempted to (re-)watch his movies from Socha Na Tha to Chamkila (including the 3 he had been writer but not director)...

Also, adding to this that Ved is such a headcannoned character for so many neurodivergent folks. Ved is such an important character in so many ways.

It is sad that women or nonbinary folks never get such poignant and layered representation. We don't get our intersectional existence acknowledged let alone represented. I can only think of Ghaywan, lately, who has given us intersectional experiences beyond the framework of cishet (uc) man, y'know.

Imtiaz is probably just one of many who make movies in this format.

Anyway, I have a challenge for Imtiaz Ali. I feel like I am nobody to be telling anybody what to do. But it is completely his choice if he wants to take it up or not. The challenge is just make one film from the female character's perspective. It does not have to be a feminist movie. It can be about dinosaurs for all I care, just make sure she is the main protagonist not any male.

It will help him grow as a filmmaker as he will understand the female perspective better. It will help him write better characters in the future. And the concept of MPDG, as many critics have pointed out in the West is really dangerous to portray in cinema. As young impressionable teenage girls will get the completely wrong idea about what their aims in life should be.

My take is and this might be a really naive one, as a man he is just not interested in women's issues or struggles nor he can relate to them. Just like I can not relate to any of the problematic male crybaby characters that he creates. I will be honest and say I just skimmed through JHMS and Rockstar before I made this post or else I have no interest in watching toxic immature males who even need a woman in their life to simply grow up. Women have historically had it much harder and they struggle every day to prove themselves and lead independent lives in a society that believes that they exist solely for serving the men in their lives.

The whole concept of empathy involves being able to put yourself in the shoes of a wronged person or people and see their perspective. Women have been historically wronged far more than men ever will be. It is very easy to empathize with people who we naturally relate to as I am sure he relates to his male characters. But it is very hard to empathize with people who are not as easy to relate to. There are so many female autobiographies out there if he wants to use them.

Again this is just me being super naive and saying he just does not have a good understanding of the female perspective. Even his friend Anurag Kashyap, who openly says he loves Vangha and loved Animal, depicts females in a much more balanced way in his movies than Imtiaz. For example, Manmarziyan many women related to. It had male characters that evolved. However, it did not throw the female perspective out the window pretending like she was just there to be the servant of men.

Originally posted by: Blueeeee

Also, adding to this that Ved is such a headcannoned character for so many neurodivergent folks. Ved is such an important character in so many ways.

It is sad that women or nonbinary folks never get such poignant and layered representation. We don't get our intersectional existence acknowledged let alone represented. I can only think of Ghaywan, lately, who has given us intersectional experiences beyond the framework of cishet (uc) man, y'know.

This might be my bias, but I think women who still face a lot more challenges in society then men what make for a much better story if they were given such a poignant and layered representation. Imagine if a woman who also faces the challenged of a patriarchal society had to rediscover her creative side when she had been forced into 9-5 job due to societal norms.

I honestly feel like he makes the same movies over and over again and JWM was a fluke - or ghost directed by someone else

Originally posted by: Shaitan-Haiwan

I honestly feel like he makes the same movies over and over again and JWM was a fluke - or ghost directed by someone else

From what I have read on Reddit is his wife was a huge guiding force in terms of giving him ideas. How ironic? Again that might be wrong.

The main thing I hope and pray to God he stops doing is portraying women as if their supposed to be men's therapists. It is beyond wrong. I mean disgustingly wrong to have to watch.

I have not seen ALL of imtiaz movies. I saw socha na tha where the leads ayesha and abhay refuse arrange marriage with each other but end up falling in love which was cute and weird lol but loved their cute love story. second movie I watched of imtiaz was jab we met where the whole movie focused on kareena's character, even shahid said in an interview the name of the movie was kareena's character but Shahid told imtiaz to change the name of the movie. Last movie I watched of imtiaz was LAK with dp and saif, I liked their pairing. But the rest of movies of imtiaz, I have not seen at all. Cocktail was written by Imtiaz and he gave the BEST and strongest role to deepika's character which was veronica. At least Imtiaz makes sure female leads have roles unlike some directors where the female leads is just there for song and dance.