Why Krishna sided with Arjun?? - Page 2

Originally posted by: Rani_Sahiba

@bold Thanks for the information, I didn’t know about this.

@red I am not saying this was a sin or not? And definitely not on the Draupadi’s part. But just because we associate divinity with someone or something does it make their actions all right? We never says that Pandavas were Adharmi cause Krishna sided with them? Can a divine reason give legitimacy to something. I can understand that behind every action there was a greater purpose but is it okay to make someone so powerful that you can’t even question that and this statement is coming from the videos and comments when people try to say Arjun was not that great then they are bashed by his supporters.

Red-- Definitely not. In fact, all devi --devatas erred at one point and they redefined /rectified it with their Godly powers and with divine wisdom.

Green--Pandavas are not Dharmis or Adharmis, they were mere pawns in the hands of fate, and also with a few human follies, they suffered a lot, ultimately fought for their kingdom and won it with the help of Sri Krishna, with the Divine help.

Blue-- Without conducting adequate study or reading the Epics, the serial makers give all erroneous information in an effort to pique viewers' interest.

Originally posted by: Rani_Sahiba

I seriously want to know the answer of this question cause I can’t see beyond Arjun’s playboy ways. In Tv shows Krishna was constantly saying that Pandavas are the embodiment of Dharma. But how? Arjun could not even respect his wife enough to not go for a second marriage, he called his wife a Daan as far as the show is considered, he couldn’t even take stand for his wife when she was staked by Yudhisthira. Then they go on to show that Arjuna never loved Subhadra and he married her just because she was Krishna’s sister. He was always belittling karna just because of his caste but suddenly changes his tunes when he got to know he is his brother. In original MB he almost killed and fully insulted Yudhisthira when Yudhisthira cursed him for not killing Karna? He could stand against Yudhisthira when Yudhisthira insulted his bow but not when Yudhisthira insulted his wife by staking her. Then during MorDhwaja episode it was clear that he was too high on victory and that’s why Krishna had to do all the drama of killing an innocent child just to break his superficial ego. Where is that Dharma of Arjuna, the makers of the show were constantly bragging about?

Yudhisthira staked his wife and married his younger brother’s wife who was like his younger sister. He staked his brothers just to satisfy his ego that he follows the path of Dharma no matter what? Bheem too insulted his elder brother just because he was from Lower caste and same goes with Nakul.

I really want to see that Dharma which was represented by the Pandavas, may be I am missing the main point everyone else is seeing so please help me. And I am posting this question here cause I don’t know where else to post😅

And Neha and Rakhi, please tag the members of Mahabharat forum and anyone else who can explain about this.

Answer-- When Draupadi was divided among his brothers, he didn't protest. But we have to keep this in mind that the only drawback in Arjun was he was scared of committing a ‘sin'.. Marrying before his elder brother and not accepting his mother's order in those days was a 'sin’. However, that never made him love her less. Here Maharishi Ved Vyas didn't mention his feelings, but later his confessions on the 17th day of the war to Yudhishthir shows that he was indeed hurt about this incident.

Love is not only of physical attraction and claiming someone physically. It's more emotional than physical. The emotional bond he had with Draupadi was intact irrespective of their complicated marriage.

Answer-- This is not correct. Acco to Ved Vyas Mahabharath, Arjun was smitten by Subhadra's beauty and went to Dwaraka to see Shubhadra and expressed his love for her and then he abducted her, it states that he picked her up in his chariot and flew away. He did that because, Balaram was against his sister's marriage with Arjun, he wanted to marry her to his student Duryodhan. Krishna knows this , so he arranged everything for Arjun and Subhadra's marriage. Later they were called to Dwarka and they got married with the blessings of Balaram and other elders of the family.

The reason Krishna encouraged this relationship is that, he wanted his sister to have a child who would grow up to be a great warrior and the first of the great dynasty's heirs, later was Parikshit.

Arjun loved Subhadra , and married her with the help of Krishna, and she was the only Pandava wife, whom Draupadi allowed to live in the Royal Palace along with her.

Originally posted by: Rani_Sahiba

I seriously want to know the answer of this question cause I can’t see beyond Arjun’s playboy ways. In Tv shows Krishna was constantly saying that Pandavas are the embodiment of Dharma. But how? Arjun could not even respect his wife enough to not go for a second marriage, he called his wife a Daan as far as the show is considered, he couldn’t even take stand for his wife when she was staked by Yudhisthira. Then they go on to show that Arjuna never loved Subhadra and he married her just because she was Krishna’s sister. He was always belittling karna just because of his caste but suddenly changes his tunes when he got to know he is his brother. In original MB he almost killed and fully insulted Yudhisthira when Yudhisthira cursed him for not killing Karna? He could stand against Yudhisthira when Yudhisthira insulted his bow but not when Yudhisthira insulted his wife by staking her. Then during MorDhwaja episode it was clear that he was too high on victory and that’s why Krishna had to do all the drama of killing an innocent child just to break his superficial ego. Where is that Dharma of Arjuna, the makers of the show were constantly bragging about?

Yudhisthira staked his wife and married his younger brother’s wife who was like his younger sister. He staked his brothers just to satisfy his ego that he follows the path of Dharma no matter what? Bheem too insulted his elder brother just because he was from Lower caste and same goes with Nakul.

I really want to see that Dharma which was represented by the Pandavas, may be I am missing the main point everyone else is seeing so please help me. And I am posting this question here cause I don’t know where else to post😅

And Neha and Rakhi, please tag the members of Mahabharat forum and anyone else who can explain about this.

Hiya! So, I'm going to write an essay now, that hopefully will help you navigate your feelings about these characters a little better, please forgive the length...and also I don't actually have most of the texts with me, so you can check out the Scriptures thread in the old MB ka forum if you wanna read up ❤️ Also, do let me know if you'd like any clarifications anywhere. :)

Also, if there are any corrections to be made, that also please let me know.

Based on the TV shows we have you are absolutely right with your observation...TVArjun is one dicey character.

Wives...back in the OG-MB, it was very common for warriors like Krishna and Arjun to take multiple wives for alliances and stuff. It was in fact less common for people to get married because of love. Vyasa doesn't actually go into much detail about what any character is feeling, so it's kind of hard to figure out what exactly went on behind closed doors.

From what I've read, I felt like Arjun had a working relationship with all four of his wives, and he let them do their own thing and never really spent much time with any of them. Out of them, Uloopi and Chitrangada stayed hundreds of miles away, so no chance of either romance or fighting on those fronts; Subhadra was always shown as the quiet, compromising type, and didn't make any fuss so long as she and her son were fed and clothed. Draupadi is the only one in the book to have shown any special affection for Arjun but that's probably because Arjun went out of his way to avoid her for the most part (probably the guilt about 'ruining' her life with the marriage thing) and that he barely stayed home anyway.

Yes, he did call Draupadi 'alms' but let's not forget that he was young and he made a stupid joke that backfired quite spectacularly on him.

Dice Hall...he (and the other 4) was considered a slave of Duryodhan, and hence nothing he said would actually help. Plus, Arjuna did vow to kill Karna during that incident only. He couldn't have actually killed Karna right there because all 5 of them were unarmed and there were at least 99 others waiting to pounce, they only needed to make one wrong move. He pretty much hashed this part out with Yudhishthir when they were fighting right before Karna Vadh (as you also mentioned). That incident was basically the straw that broke the camel's back for the two of them. It wasn't an off-hand fight, but one that was a long time coming.

Mordhawaja...there are several such weird-and-wacky stories scattered all over the entire Hindu mythology collection. This particular one can be found in, as far as I know, Jaimineya and Kashidasi MBs. I at least can't find it in Kaliprasanna Simha's translation of Vyasa's MB.

Karna...nobody insulted him because of his caste. They insulted him because Karna was a guy 15-20 years Arjun's senior and still a jealous prick, who insisted on fighting with kids less than half his age. Karna constantly lied to people, abandoned Duryodhana at least 3 times in the middle of battles, and he was the one who actually ordered Dusshasana to disrobe Draupadi (let's not forget what names he called her!).

Sutaputra is a patronym, not a slur. It's in fact similar to how Krishna is called Gopal. It was Karna who was ashamed of his family, and took offence whenever people tried to refer to him by a name reminiscent of his past. His whole shtick was that he, the gifted, brilliant archer, could not belong to such a 'lowly' family.

Where's the dharma...Arjun, throughout the epic, has been hailed as a person who is always calm, humble and helpful. His entire life is an example of 'karmanye vaadhikaaraste ma phaleshu kadaacha na'. At Draupadi's swayamvar also, I think he just blindly went and did the fish's eye thing, and then realized ke achha ladki bhi thi. He always wanted to mind his own business but others kept dragging him. I personally think Krishna chose Arjun to be his best friend because Arjun was the only one who was truly there for him.

Yudhishthira...he was a product of his times. He was a good king, a good scholar and a good administrator. Where he faltered was his family life. He had to become the head of the family at a very young age. He took care of his brothers, become a shoulder to cry on for his mother and simultaneously navigate the politics of Hastinapur. Only after they were well-settled in Indraprastha, did Yudi loosen up a bit, but what happened was that all that parentification at such an early age meant that he had about zero ideas of how to act like a responsible adult in a fun setting or to handle familial conflicts in a productive manner. I think he just lost control in the dice hall, given Duryodhana, Shakuni AND Dhritarashtra were playing mind games will him all at the same time.

He's a flawed character...you know, the kind whose actions you can explain but can't excuse.

Marrying brothers' wives was pretty common back then, but that usually happened if the brother died/became a hermit/went missing. Also, polyandry was uncommon at that age but not unheard of. Basically, Yudi didn't exactly break any contemporary law when he agreed to Vyasa's proposal of the six-way-ceremony.

Dharma...we must not judge MB ka dharma based on our 21st-century morality. According to them, a Kshatriya Dharmic person was pretty much a guy who

- respected elders and brahmins (dodgy)

- didn't kill unarmed/sleeping/underage people

- made donations

- did yajnas

- didn't fight too much or phaltu mein

- had knowledge of the Vedas

...baki jo chahe kare.

Originally posted by: Rani_Sahiba

Merko vs nahi chahiye bas yeh janna hai ki jab koi Arjun ke flaws point out karta hai toh baaki log kehte hai ki agar Arjun Adharm karta toh sab uski taarif karte and all, jaake Dhrama padho😂

Merko sach mein usme koi dharma nazar nahi aaya jisko Mahabharat ka basis banaya gaya hai ki yeh throne ki ladayi thi meri nazron mein jis par sirf bheeshma ka haq tha.

Ab opinions hai toh different bhi honge but yeh mera hai🤷‍♀️

that is not good way to deal , we can ask question we can read things n dharma Arjun followed definitely but we have to understand the situation was different from here n then time

but none can right by saying dharma padho...its not good or right tbh

u know tv channels n their fiction for TRP make manything distorted so ppl confuse with this all

sec if also Arjun know staking brothers indrapastha n Draupadi wrong, he can't go against his elder brother (openly it will give Wrong signal, politics that not meaning he didn't do wrong or he did repent over that hell dice game or Draupadi's insult ) neither his Samrat then he was slave though he knows its wrong but five brothers with the conflict of situation trapped by Sakuni's cunning mind n shrewdness...

yes he did wrong (Arjun ) but he try to rectify it infact many folklore or others' puran versions gave many stories of how Sri Krishna used to break Arjun's pride to make him right....

this is for certain reason..

Arjun is like Nar who has flaws yet who can rectify it n for Dharma who can fight against Adharmi n closed one....Arjun has purpose ,n More Arjun is devoted to Krishna fully ....

he falters but the lord guides him path where other choose wrong...

its about our choice karma

God give everyone equal choices time but human don't see it

Bhagavad Gita: Chapter 18, Verse 78

yatra yogeśhvaraḥ kṛiṣhṇo yatra pārtho dhanur-dharaḥ

tatra śhrīr vijayo bhūtir dhruvā nītir matir mama

BG 18.78: Wherever there is Shree Krishna, the Lord of all Yog, and wherever there is Arjun, the supreme archer, there will also certainly be unending opulence, victory, prosperity, and righteousness. Of this, I am certain.

Originally posted by: metacrisis

Hiya! So, I'm going to write an essay now, that hopefully will help you navigate your feelings about these characters a little better, please forgive the length...and also I don't actually have most of the texts with me, so you can check out the Scriptures thread in the old MB ka forum if you wanna read up ❤️ Also, do let me know if you'd like any clarifications anywhere. :)

Also, if there are any corrections to be made, that also please let me know.

Based on the TV shows we have you are absolutely right with your observation...TVArjun is one dicey character.

Wives...back in the OG-MB, it was very common for warriors like Krishna and Arjun to take multiple wives for alliances and stuff. It was in fact less common for people to get married because of love. Vyasa doesn't actually go into much detail about what any character is feeling, so it's kind of hard to figure out what exactly went on behind closed doors.

From what I've read, I felt like Arjun had a working relationship with all four of his wives, and he let them do their own thing and never really spent much time with any of them. Out of them, Uloopi and Chitrangada stayed hundreds of miles away, so no chance of either romance or fighting on those fronts; Subhadra was always shown as the quiet, compromising type, and didn't make any fuss so long as she and her son were fed and clothed. Draupadi is the only one in the book to have shown any special affection for Arjun but that's probably because Arjun went out of his way to avoid her for the most part (probably the guilt about 'ruining' her life with the marriage thing) and that he barely stayed home anyway.

Yes, he did call Draupadi 'alms' but let's not forget that he was young and he made a stupid joke that backfired quite spectacularly on him.

Dice Hall...he (and the other 4) was considered a slave of Duryodhan, and hence nothing he said would actually help. Plus, Arjuna did vow to kill Karna during that incident only. He couldn't have actually killed Karna right there because all 5 of them were unarmed and there were at least 99 others waiting to pounce, they only needed to make one wrong move. He pretty much hashed this part out with Yudhishthir when they were fighting right before Karna Vadh (as you also mentioned). That incident was basically the straw that broke the camel's back for the two of them. It wasn't an off-hand fight, but one that was a long time coming.

Mordhawaja...there are several such weird-and-wacky stories scattered all over the entire Hindu mythology collection. This particular one can be found in, as far as I know, Jaimineya and Kashidasi MBs. I at least can't find it in Kaliprasanna Simha's translation of Vyasa's MB.

Karna...nobody insulted him because of his caste. They insulted him because Karna was a guy 15-20 years Arjun's senior and still a jealous prick, who insisted on fighting with kids less than half his age. Karna constantly lied to people, abandoned Duryodhana at least 3 times in the middle of battles, and he was the one who actually ordered Dusshasana to disrobe Draupadi (let's not forget what names he called her!).

Sutaputra is a patronym, not a slur. It's in fact similar to how Krishna is called Gopal. It was Karna who was ashamed of his family, and took offence whenever people tried to refer to him by a name reminiscent of his past. His whole shtick was that he, the gifted, brilliant archer, could not belong to such a 'lowly' family.

Where's the dharma...Arjun, throughout the epic, has been hailed as a person who is always calm, humble and helpful. His entire life is an example of 'karmanye vaadhikaaraste ma phaleshu kadaacha na'. At Draupadi's swayamvar also, I think he just blindly went and did the fish's eye thing, and then realized ke achha ladki bhi thi. He always wanted to mind his own business but others kept dragging him. I personally think Krishna chose Arjun to be his best friend because Arjun was the only one who was truly there for him.

Yudhishthira...he was a product of his times. He was a good king, a good scholar and a good administrator. Where he faltered was his family life. He had to become the head of the family at a very young age. He took care of his brothers, become a shoulder to cry on for his mother and simultaneously navigate the politics of Hastinapur. Only after they were well-settled in Indraprastha, did Yudi loosen up a bit, but what happened was that all that parentification at such an early age meant that he had about zero ideas of how to act like a responsible adult in a fun setting or to handle familial conflicts in a productive manner. I think he just lost control in the dice hall, given Duryodhana, Shakuni AND Dhritarashtra were playing mind games will him all at the same time.

He's a flawed character...you know, the kind whose actions you can explain but can't excuse.

Marrying brothers' wives was pretty common back then, but that usually happened if the brother died/became a hermit/went missing. Also, polyandry was uncommon at that age but not unheard of. Basically, Yudi didn't exactly break any contemporary law when he agreed to Vyasa's proposal of the six-way-ceremony.

Dharma...we must not judge MB ka dharma based on our 21st-century morality. According to them, a Kshatriya Dharmic person was pretty much a guy who

- respected elders and brahmins (dodgy)

- didn't kill unarmed/sleeping/underage people

- made donations

- did yajnas

- didn't fight too much or phaltu mein

- had knowledge of the Vedas

...baki jo chahe kare.

Radhi, I consider this as one of your best posts in this IF. 🤗 Well defined, well explained one.

Bold-- Apt description of Dharmaraj's character. Yes, he is a flawed character, even after losing his kingdom and everything, he played the Dice game again only to suffer in the forest for 13 years, didn't learn a lesson from his previous misdeeds.

He explained how Dharmaj fell in love with Draupadi's beauty when his mother urged them to wed her in Vyas Mahabharath. He didn't resist marrying her, immediately he agreed for his mother's proposal.

Originally posted by: Rani_Sahiba

@bold right bro, but isn’t this is essence of human life, learn from past, learn from your mistake and that is how you would be better human being. yup

I don’t have much knowledge of Dharma and all but what I understand about Dharma is that it means you stand with right and against wrong, even if it is your loved ones who are on the wrong side. Dharma means compassion that you understand the pain of others and do something for the world not for your selfish reasons. And main part is that Dharma is your duty, like a king’s duty is to protect his subjects and to work for their betterment, A husband’s dharma is to stand with and up for his wife and vice versa, to respect each other and like this with every relationship comes it’s own form of duty. And if we see in this sense were they dharmic?? I am not siding with anybody as I know they all committed some crimes but I just want to know the reason behind why people thinks Arjun was the only one who followed Dharma or the Pandavas were the embodiment of Dharma. true n Arjun fought for Draupadi but this is the conflict came ...Arjun alone is not husband of draupadi ,firs tYudisthir can't stake Draupadi ,sply after he lost himself, sec he didn't take permission of 5others third ,even if he said anything will not help anything as they r slave n Kaurava wanted that time Arjun or any other pandava do that ...Dwpad yug accepting order from elder brother is dharma though saving n supporting wife also but conflict of dharma emotions mind the game played by (Mind ) kaurava make Arjun also confuse n they never mostly expect that kaurva stoop to that level , for that they repent also... pandava r indeed follow dharma though they falter like any other human but with those flaws they try to rectify it n fought...its more Pandava like Madhuri n Pro said they r trapped by those Family members n conflict n they r mere pawn in the hand of destiny to establish dharma...

They all had their fair share of mistakes, Bhishma never corrected his mistakes but still people says he was with Dharma but the only applaud worthy thing he did was the oath and even that was selfish on his part, to make his father happy he sacrificed the happiness and welfare of his people which was his duty as a crown Prince.

agree..Bhishma was good man had good heart yet confuse with dharma , he choose that oath cause of his father n his satisfaction but saving his people or protecting the throne came with judgment of right n wrong

protecting throne came with protection from greedy people

again he did wrong n paid the price heavily

yes Bheeshma rightfully deserve but he didn't take it so this al hellabu came from the time Sakun an outsider (though uncle)included in family politics n greed...

I think I wrongly framed my question as my question was not about Pandavas vs Kauravas, it was only about the what was the Dharma on the basis of which Krishna sided with them??

Got it Dharma which Pandava follows ,but Kaurva didn't...Pandava was happy with anything be it in Woods or in palace but its Kaurava the moment they came back to hastinapur , they start creating problem from poisioning Bheem to lakshagriha to Dice game or any other...

even with shanti parva they never left their greed

infact Dhritarashtra was never true king , its Pandu's rightful place which he gave as caretaker but Dhrtirasthra never gave back to yudisthri neither he wanted it ....even as elder Yudisthir was elder still...

after giving khandavvan which is a desert filled with snakes one side another forest that place Pandava makes Amravati in Earth ,establish indrapastha but then also Kaurva greed for that

TV show start blaming draupadi for calling blind man's son is blind is wrong as there is no evidence of that n then all blame game start that this all start by pandava n draupadi nope even without that incident Duryodhon already seething with greed, envy against pandavas...Karna was seedhing in face kauravas

The dice game was the base for Kururksthrtra

with the advice of Shakuni n own greed n Blind love for son, he supported all wrong demands of Duryodhon ...

Karna was an opportunist for the time, he wanted to prove himself right for any reason, he has an inferiority complex being Adhirathi , sutaputra but its not a slur ...

he was elder n much elder than Arjun yet has envy feeling for Arjun, whole life Karna fought to show Arjun down ,his one aim s that

I got ur point its not about pandava vs kaurva its about dharma vs Adharma

its about Accused vs Victim

well here both pandava n kaurava has more or less grey shades but more than pandava its Kaurava who r with wrong ...

Bhagavad Gita: Chapter 18, Verse 78

yatra yogeśhvaraḥ kṛiṣhṇo yatra pārtho dhanur-dharaḥ

tatra śhrīr vijayo bhūtir dhruvā nītir matir mama

BG 18.78: Wherever there is Shree Krishna, the Lord of all Yog, and wherever there is Arjun, the supreme archer, there will also certainly be unending opulence, victory, prosperity, and righteousness. Of this, I am certain.

replied in green

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

Answer-- When Draupadi was divided among his brothers, he didn't protest. But we have to keep this in mind that the only drawback in Arjun was he was scared of committing a ‘sin'.. Marrying before his elder brother and not accepting his mother's order in those days was a 'sin’. However, that never made him love her less. Here Maharishi Ved Vyas didn't mention his feelings, but later his confessions on the 17th day of the war to Yudhishthir shows that he was indeed hurt about this incident.

Love is not only of physical attraction and claiming someone physically. It's more emotional than physical. The emotional bond he had with Draupadi was intact irrespective of their complicated marriage.

Answer-- This is not correct. Acco to Ved Vyas Mahabharath, Arjun was smitten by Subhadra's beauty and went to Dwaraka to see Shubhadra and expressed his love for her and then he abducted her, it states that he picked her up in his chariot and flew away. He did that because, Balaram was against his sister's marriage with Arjun, he wanted to marry her to his student Duryodhan. Krishna knows this , so he arranged everything for Arjun and Subhadra's marriage. Later they were called to Dwarka and they got married with the blessings of Balaram and other elders of the family.

The reason Krishna encouraged this relationship is that, he wanted his sister to have a child who would grow up to be a great warrior and the first of the great dynasty's heirs, later was Parikshit.

Arjun loved Subhadra , and married her with the help of Krishna, and she was the only Pandava wife, whom Draupadi allowed to live in the Royal Palace along with her.

@red so disrespecting his wife was not a sin, I can understand the fact that marriage was more or less a political tool in that days. But what he did was still a sin.

@bold His hurt and apologies doesn’t matter at that stage. This incident doesn’t justified what happened to Draupadi. Btw thanks for sharing this information I didn’t know about this.

@green I know this was wrong that’s why I used the word according to show.

Thank you Madhu di for your insightful views💖

Originally posted by: metacrisis

Hiya! So, I'm going to write an essay now, that hopefully will help you navigate your feelings about these characters a little better, please forgive the length...and also I don't actually have most of the texts with me, so you can check out the Scriptures thread in the old MB ka forum if you wanna read up ❤️ Also, do let me know if you'd like any clarifications anywhere. :)

Also, if there are any corrections to be made, that also please let me know.

Based on the TV shows we have you are absolutely right with your observation...TVArjun is one dicey character.

Wives...back in the OG-MB, it was very common for warriors like Krishna and Arjun to take multiple wives for alliances and stuff. It was in fact less common for people to get married because of love. Vyasa doesn't actually go into much detail about what any character is feeling, so it's kind of hard to figure out what exactly went on behind closed doors.

From what I've read, I felt like Arjun had a working relationship with all four of his wives, and he let them do their own thing and never really spent much time with any of them. Out of them, Uloopi and Chitrangada stayed hundreds of miles away, so no chance of either romance or fighting on those fronts; Subhadra was always shown as the quiet, compromising type, and didn't make any fuss so long as she and her son were fed and clothed. Draupadi is the only one in the book to have shown any special affection for Arjun but that's probably because Arjun went out of his way to avoid her for the most part (probably the guilt about 'ruining' her life with the marriage thing) and that he barely stayed home anyway.

Yes, he did call Draupadi 'alms' but let's not forget that he was young and he made a stupid joke that backfired quite spectacularly on him.

Dice Hall...he (and the other 4) was considered a slave of Duryodhan, and hence nothing he said would actually help. Plus, Arjuna did vow to kill Karna during that incident only. He couldn't have actually killed Karna right there because all 5 of them were unarmed and there were at least 99 others waiting to pounce, they only needed to make one wrong move. He pretty much hashed this part out with Yudhishthir when they were fighting right before Karna Vadh (as you also mentioned). That incident was basically the straw that broke the camel's back for the two of them. It wasn't an off-hand fight, but one that was a long time coming.

Mordhawaja...there are several such weird-and-wacky stories scattered all over the entire Hindu mythology collection. This particular one can be found in, as far as I know, Jaimineya and Kashidasi MBs. I at least can't find it in Kaliprasanna Simha's translation of Vyasa's MB.

Karna...nobody insulted him because of his caste. They insulted him because Karna was a guy 15-20 years Arjun's senior and still a jealous prick, who insisted on fighting with kids less than half his age. Karna constantly lied to people, abandoned Duryodhana at least 3 times in the middle of battles, and he was the one who actually ordered Dusshasana to disrobe Draupadi (let's not forget what names he called her!).

Sutaputra is a patronym, not a slur. It's in fact similar to how Krishna is called Gopal. It was Karna who was ashamed of his family, and took offence whenever people tried to refer to him by a name reminiscent of his past. His whole shtick was that he, the gifted, brilliant archer, could not belong to such a 'lowly' family.

Where's the dharma...Arjun, throughout the epic, has been hailed as a person who is always calm, humble and helpful. His entire life is an example of 'karmanye vaadhikaaraste ma phaleshu kadaacha na'. At Draupadi's swayamvar also, I think he just blindly went and did the fish's eye thing, and then realized ke achha ladki bhi thi. He always wanted to mind his own business but others kept dragging him. I personally think Krishna chose Arjun to be his best friend because Arjun was the only one who was truly there for him.

Yudhishthira...he was a product of his times. He was a good king, a good scholar and a good administrator. Where he faltered was his family life. He had to become the head of the family at a very young age. He took care of his brothers, become a shoulder to cry on for his mother and simultaneously navigate the politics of Hastinapur. Only after they were well-settled in Indraprastha, did Yudi loosen up a bit, but what happened was that all that parentification at such an early age meant that he had about zero ideas of how to act like a responsible adult in a fun setting or to handle familial conflicts in a productive manner. I think he just lost control in the dice hall, given Duryodhana, Shakuni AND Dhritarashtra were playing mind games will him all at the same time.

He's a flawed character...you know, the kind whose actions you can explain but can't excuse.

Marrying brothers' wives was pretty common back then, but that usually happened if the brother died/became a hermit/went missing. Also, polyandry was uncommon at that age but not unheard of. Basically, Yudi didn't exactly break any contemporary law when he agreed to Vyasa's proposal of the six-way-ceremony.

Dharma...we must not judge MB ka dharma based on our 21st-century morality. According to them, a Kshatriya Dharmic person was pretty much a guy who

- respected elders and brahmins (dodgy)

- didn't kill unarmed/sleeping/underage people

- made donations

- did yajnas

- didn't fight too much or phaltu mein

- had knowledge of the Vedas

...baki jo chahe kare.

Thanks buddy🤗it really helped me a lot in understanding them especially Arjun.

Next time will keep these facts in mind too👍🏼

Originally posted by: Rani_Sahiba

I think I wrongly framed my question as my question was not about Pandavas vs Kauravas, it was only about the what was the Dharma on the basis of which Krishna sided with them??

Bro help me about this too?

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

Radhi, I consider this as one of your best posts in this IF. 🤗 Well defined, well explained one.

Bold-- Apt description of Dharmaraj's character. Yes, he is a flawed character, even after losing his kingdom and everything, he played the Dice game again only to suffer in the forest for 13 years, didn't learn a lesson from his previous misdeeds.

He explained how Dharmaj fell in love with Draupadi's beauty when his mother urged them to wed her in Vyas Mahabharath. He didn't resist marrying her, immediately he agreed for his mother's proposal.

Thank you! ❤️

I've always felt Yudi thought himself to be somewhat inferior, especially when faced with his rather daunting destiny. I think in the dice game he truly underestimated exactly how much damage he could do as a Gambling-Samrat. The second time was probably a gamblers' delusion ka case.

However, I had read one post on IF only I think (can't remember by who exactly), where the OP proposed that Yudhishthir was being forced by Dhritarashtra to keep playing. Dhritu was the presiding chair, and the monarch of the nation, and as his guest/hostage, Yudi pretty much had to do whatever he was ordered to. Personally, I find this possibility very interesting, because really, as a King, even Dhritu's polite requests and jovial invitations would bear a much more sinister undercurrent.

Maybe, that's why nobody reacted? Were they afraid of a coup, and stepped up only when they knew the situation was too far gone on the morality front to be resolved by an internal upheaval?

I'm probably stretching the line right now, but it's a nifty line of thought, right?