Kangana demands drug test for Rahul Gandhi - Page 3

Originally posted by: SavitaBarbie

You have a fair point when you ask what the Congress has done in all these years . The Congress has been quite elitist pretty much . But what he's said is not 'random'. That there hasn't been any Dalit representation in these pageants is quite telling. Yes it's a beauty contest . There are plenty of Dalit women who are beautiful. So isn't it odd that we haven't heard of any winner or finalist in all these years who is Dalit ? The point is that a de facto casteist hierarchy is still in place that keeps those at the bottom from getting to the 'top'. This is not about beauty contests alone . It goes for pretty much everything. If you just step out of your home and find out the caste of the sweepers ,cleaners , porters etc in your area they're all most likely going to be Dalit or OBC. Thats not a coincidence. How many Dalit actors do we have in Bollywood or any wood in India ? There's a great overlap of caste and class and while elitist contests like Miss India or Miss Whatever don't specifically ask for your caste it's a fact that only the privileged have access to these. Not just financial privilege but all kinds of other things associated with it ,like the ability to speak English well for example. In the IITs Dalit students often have a hard time keeping up because of the English -Regional language divide and they're even openly mocked for not following English. Access to good English medium schools depends on money and you cannot land a well paying job without a decent education ,to be able to afford good schools for your kids to be able to pay for extra hours of coaching or expensive books. So it's a catch 22 .

No ,caste based oppression or discrimination didn't happen 500 years ago. It still continues to happen in this country . Even now as we speak. From stereotypical things like not being allowed to drink water from well or getting beaten for riding a mare during a wedding to ostracism at educational insitutions ,bullying , denial of housing , exclusion at the workplace etc. When a building as a policy that requires the maid to take the stairs and never the elevator it's not just discrimination against blue collar workers ,caste and people's obsession with it have a a role to play there. And we still have a system that keeps some people confined to the horrors of caste in one way or the other. Thats what RG was hinting at. Putting Mallikarjun Kharge at the top is probably just a hollow attempt by the Congress at 'inclusivity' ,we don't know if he has any real say or power but that doesn't make RG's point comparable to the ravings of a drug addict like Kangana. Not speaking about caste is not going to make it go away. I don't want to get into the reservation debate but when you're so deep in denial of the problem maybe it colours your view. Reservation and meritocracy aren't really mutually exclusive . Replace Dalit with women and see how that sounds. Men still tell us we are playing the victim card when we talk about representation or equal pay or anything that challenges the status quo.

govt should spend more on govt schools and raise educational standards. Ensure everyone has access to schools. Provide financial aid based on need> Aid should not be based on whether someone can get a fake certificate showing they are a dalit. We have SC/ ST politicians who are rich but whose children keep getting quota benefits. Should not happen.

So, help the poor get educated.

But, there should be no reservations in unvs or jobs (and beauty contests) because it takes away opportunity from meritorious people. We should want to create a merit based society, not one based on entitlements. Do you want your doctors to be quota people? Your army officer? Your IAS officer? Will you be good marrying someone who lacks merit just because they are dalit?

beyond that, if you or someone wants to help the dalits or your preferred class of people, start an NGO. Raise funds. It should be NGOs that fill the gap, not hardworking meritorious people and certainly not taxpayers. Why screw ordinary tax payers because you or pappu have your own social upliftment agenda.

talking about IITs or even elite medical colleges, people who get in through the quota system would flunk any exam in any language. They get in only because their cut-offs are low. In AIIMS, they are still made to pass though they have no ability! It's also unfair that in a place like AIIMS Vellore, 20% get in through competitive merit based system. How would you like it if you were smarter than the quota doctor but couldn't get in because you didn't have the golden dalit certificate?

Originally posted by: SavitaBarbie

Reservation was never meant to lapse after 10 years. This is just a lie that has been repeated over the years. (The 10 period limit applied only to election of representatives to the assemblies ) . If that were true what's the point of having it in the first place? It's like saying affirmative action in the U.S was supposed to last 15 years after the Civil Rights Movement and by 1982 Black America would have magically arrived on an equal footing as whites . After making such claims you really shouldn't be saying somebody else has a low IQ .

please look it up. It's hard to debate someone like you who is either clueless or in denial of facts. Just pointing that out since you so gratuitously alluded to my IQ... speaking of which, it's much higher than yours! Way higher

the US has a different political system than India's. So don't give us your nonsense if you cant debate civilly,

now, here's some easy reading for ya from the net:

Constitutional Provision:

• The Constitution of India initially provided for reservations in legislatures (Lok Sabha and State Legislative Assemblies) for SCs and STs under Article 334. These reservations were intended to last for a period of 10 years from the commencement of the Constitution (which was in 1950).
• This meant that reservations were initially supposed to lapse in 1960. However, Article 334 allowed the possibility of extending these reservations.

Extensions:

• Over the years, the provision for caste-based reservations has been extended multiple times through constitutional amendments. The reservation for SCs, STs, and now OBCs (Other Backward Classes) in jobs and educational institutions continues to exist without a fixed end date. The reservations in legislatures have also been extended multiple times, most recently extended until 2030.

Originally posted by: MaxMayfield

the whole point of removing caste based discrimination is to first stop asking people what is your caste? I have no idea what my ancestors’ caste is..I’m guessing we were a business family so perhaps we are the least controversial one. But honestly growing up..no one ever asked anyone around me..which caste you belong to. Men are men..women are women..there should not be a ohh but she is a Dalit woman or a Brahmin woman or a Kshatriya..That is exactly where we have completely failed as a country. The fact that we still ask or care..thats the first step to this problem never getting solved. And where the discrimination still happens..it should be addressed absolutely..but they are not the ones benefiting from reservations atm..rather the Dalit card is being exploited by rather well off ones..whose parents are civil service officers and yet their kids use the Dalit card…it’s a crime to be general category in India..diversity and inclusion ke naam pe..undeserving people are getting posts of those who worked bloody hard for it...we have teachers who are not experts in their subject..we have doctors who can’t medically treat people properly..and they still want to remove the damn cap. Reservation was a short term solution…maybe I’m in denial because I did not experience it first hand..I come from a metro city…getting personal just because I have an opinion ..usual IF stuff ..some country made an obese women their beauty queen..so in the name of equality and breaking glass ceiling..we will now promote unhealthy lifestyle too.

That is not the point of reservation. It's not to get people to stop asking others what their caste is. I don't know how you ended up having that idea. The point of affirmative action is to try to make up in some way , for the unspeakable crimes ,injustice and marginalisation some communities were put through. In India that's centuries worth of cruelty. Which like I said is still going on. Reservation is an attempt to give those castes and tribes a shot at things that were perpetually denied to them. That you dont know what your caste is , is a privilege only the upper castes have. Dalits and other 'lower' castes are brutally reminded of their caste every other day . We didn't have to worry about it because we weren't given steel tumblers when we visited our friends houses or told to wait outside. Thats not the experience of people who are told their presence could pollute entire water bodies.

That some 'undeserving' folks use reservation to get somewhere is not an excuse to deny it to the hoards of others who actually need it. There are ignorant and unprofessional people everywhere. My cousin is a lecturer ,with a PhD in the concerned subject and she's a fck in idiot. She didn't get any quota ,she's just entitled and lazy. I have personally met doctors (all upper caste ) who have said shockingly ignorant things about this health condition I have. India is teeming with people who are poorly educated despite their degrees and that has nothing to do with reservation.

That minorities ,specifically Muslims shouldn't be made to pay the price for what Muslim invaders did to Hindus centuries ago is not a double standard from people who call out casteism. Islamic conquests from history aren't a bigoted social institution that's still in place. Indian Muslims who are alive now don't enjoy the legacy of that plunder . Whereas you and I still live with caste privilege in a country where nobody can escape caste. It exists even in metros. Forget metros ,Indians take caste abroad. Our diaspora is notorious for it.

ETA. There's caste based discrimination among Muslims and Christians as well. The ones in India ,that is. Many of them converted to these faiths long ago to escape caste but it followed them just the same.

Originally posted by: Daebak

Coz she went on record to say she used to do drugs. THAT IS HOW A LOTTA PEOPLE "KNOW THAT" ABOUT HER.

What do you know about me to get personal like that? Did I say anything about you? Bann gaye cool? Smartass retort likhke? NOT FUNNY, NOT COOL And for what? An actor?

Go be her advocate now.

(Also, to give your kaleje ko thandak, I cannot stand Rahul Gandhi.)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hindustantimes.com/bollywood/i-used-to-be-a-drug-addict-kangana-ranaut-s-video-from-march-goes-viral-as-bollywood-tackles-allegations-of-drug-abuse/story-JZUPYJN362TsqiDvu3mKrN_amp.html

It is sad people think it is cool to get personal and abusive with forum members.

She/he is following FOD's footsteps. I have never seen any normal post from this member. Better to avoid.

I would never understand the constant need to diminish how deeply rooted casteism is in almost every institution. A quick survey of lead actors roles in Bollywood will show you that there are barely even any characters in films that belong outside the "Upper" caste.

One might not agree with affirmative action as a solution to casteism, but that doesn't mean you have to deny the issue itself.

Originally posted by: CuckooCutter7

please look it up. It's hard to debate someone like you who is either clueless or in denial of facts. Just pointing that out since you so gratuitously alluded to my IQ... speaking of which, it's much higher than yours! Way higher

the US has a different political system than India's. So don't give us your nonsense if you cant debate civilly,

now, here's some easy reading for ya from the net:

Constitutional Provision:

• The Constitution of India initially provided for reservations in legislatures (Lok Sabha and State Legislative Assemblies) for SCs and STs under Article 334. These reservations were intended to last for a period of 10 years from the commencement of the Constitution (which was in 1950).
• This meant that reservations were initially supposed to lapse in 1960. However, Article 334 allowed the possibility of extending these reservations.

Extensions:

• Over the years, the provision for caste-based reservations has been extended multiple times through constitutional amendments. The reservation for SCs, STs, and now OBCs (Other Backward Classes) in jobs and educational institutions continues to exist without a fixed end date. The reservations in legislatures have also been extended multiple times, most recently extended until 2030.

Yes I'm sure your IQ is exceptional. And good for you. ( Although I never alluded to it. I didn't bring up anybody's IQ or any Q )

But reading skills aren't your strong suit . Please what you have copy pasted from the internet and you ll see that the 10 year period applied only to reservation in legislatures ,like I had mentioned in my previous comment to you .

Why is it hard to debate someone as 'clueless' as me ? Clue me in with facts. It's easy. But only if you have facts 😁.

Originally posted by: CuckooCutter7

govt should spend more on govt schools and raise educational standards. Ensure everyone has access to schools. Provide financial aid based on need> Aid should not be based on whether someone can get a fake certificate showing they are a dalit. We have SC/ ST politicians who are rich but whose children keep getting quota benefits. Should not happen.

So, help the poor get educated.

But, there should be no reservations in unvs or jobs (and beauty contests) because it takes away opportunity from meritorious people. We should want to create a merit based society, not one based on entitlements. Do you want your doctors to be quota people? Your army officer? Your IAS officer? Will you be good marrying someone who lacks merit just because they are dalit?

beyond that, if you or someone wants to help the dalits or your preferred class of people, start an NGO. Raise funds. It should be NGOs that fill the gap, not hardworking meritorious people and certainly not taxpayers. Why screw ordinary tax payers because you or pappu have your own social upliftment agenda.

talking about IITs or even elite medical colleges, people who get in through the quota system would flunk any exam in any language. They get in only because their cut-offs are low. In AIIMS, they are still made to pass though they have no ability! It's also unfair that in a place like AIIMS Vellore, 20% get in through competitive merit based system. How would you like it if you were smarter than the quota doctor but couldn't get in because you didn't have the golden dalit certificate?

Your idea of merit is divorced from the realities that help people achieve or hone merit. And your solution is for NGOs to step in or for the govt to 'help' the poor. You flatly refuse to see the links between casteism and poverty or the system that keeps the inequality in place. You can't go around with a jug collecting money to throw at the poor. And while it's easy to say the govt should provide better education ,the reality is that the govt doesn't. The public school system in developed countries like the UK and the US is shit. India is a poor third world country riddled with corruption . The govt ain't gonna educate nobody the way you think it should. Not anytime soon.

I don't have any agenda. Personally I stand to lose , I don't get any quota while others around me do. But the world doesn't revolve around me. Or you. Acknowledging reality is not an agenda.

Originally posted by: SavitaBarbie

...And while it's easy to say the govt should provide better education ,the reality is that the govt doesn't. ...

Picking only this line from you, Sabita, because that is the crux for so, so many things throughout so so many years (whatever the government)...the difference between "should" and really invest the needed meaures to change things...

Originally posted by: MaxMayfield

they think they are countering the religious card with the caste card..meanwhile minority is absolutely thriving with no dip in their number count ..while Hindus are back to internal fighting..we will never learn. I guess RaGa will become the PM one day and that’s when everyone will realize how the previous PM was so much better..also he is still around because the liberals have daddy zoned him and will overlook any bakwaas he or Mamta do…I mean Mamta is literally threatening civil unrest and no one can do anything about it...is simply shocking and sick.

the hypocrisy of caste based reservervation is they will continue to expect that meritorious people make way for reservations types, but they themselves will never give up anything. So easy to demand sacrifices from others

Originally posted by: Clochette

Picking only this line from you, Sabita, because that is the crux for so, so many things throughout so so many years (whatever the government)...the difference between "should" and really invest the needed meaures to change things...

so go after the government to ensure equal access to education is provided to all. Why screw merit people to suit cuckoo communistic ideas one might have? Seems we are barking up the wrong tree

and for people here thinking that reservations are a good idea, how about giving up your job, your seat in a university, your role in society to one of these disadvantaged types. How about funding programs to help them. Being armchair social warriors is easy when others have to make sacrifices, not when one has to do it themselves.