Thank you for expressing your opinion on my shared views. Let us not get at loggerheads with each other but understand this thread as a paradigm churning, A Meemansa or A Manthan.
I saw your video on myths of Mahabharata (not in full owing to lack of time then). You have already studied the critical edition of Mahabharata. so we both agree that Mahabharata started as an orally transmitted tale and the recovered Original Vyasa written "Jaya" was just 8800 verses. Sukhtankar himself agreed that it was impossible to reconstruct an actual fluid text of the whole Mahabharat.
So the way Ganesha wrote Mahabharat is added later on, I wonder how many incidents are actually authentic?? Even in current times of preserving written texts there's so much deviation from historical facts in media e.g. the famous misnomer of Jodha Bai. So one can only imagine what happened in the BC and BCE era.
What's best for us is to interpret the teaching/learning we take from these epic scriptures. The scriptures can be interpreted in multiple ways...... Each one is right and from the creator's viewpoint perhaps none.
I have a firm belief that dharma starts degrading as a slow process. It's that state like cancer when there's a choice to revert back..... When you don't, it becomes a state/ a phase which the creator cascades to the worst possible limits and then creates final destruction.......
In DKDM, I loved one dialogue of Mahadev in the Jalandhar track .... A person is always given two choices..... destiny is all about the result of the choices he has made...... And a sentence that appears in the last Krishna Chapter in Mrityunjay, the Marathi Novel..... I am always telling you what's right or wrong but when you unhear me constantly, then I create death in front of you..... That moment between life transitioning to death always brings the TRUE REALISATION!
You are an erudite yourself on Mahabharata. So let us both, Instead of judging from outside, make an effort to understand character psychology. You are defending Shantanu and Satyavati whereas I held them equally responsible along with Bheeshma...... I am fully aware of and agree with the data points you gave about Shantanu Period..... Now let's discuss about whether he's allowed to have personal wishes?....... When his personal wish starts interfering with the future of Kingdom, then no! You have assumed a position which requires a lot of personal wish sacrifices...... You needed a wife? Fine! Choose any beauty who does not take away your legal heir ke rights....... Satyavati's adoptive father put forth the conditions, then Satyavati could make her father understand that she becoming the queen itself was itself a great feat achieved and if she ever got sons they would still be princes...... How can a condition be put forth based on a future occurrence? All girls born hoti toh kya karate? Bachche hote hi nahi toh kya karate?...... And with such condition, Shantanu should not start pining to such a level that his son, the prince, understood something was wrong........Devadatta/Devavrata, The prince should not have taken an oath like ab jaan gayee toh bhi nahi todunga.
Ram could not unify with Seeta for 14 years after his marriage and thereafter he had to send a pregnant Seeta to the jungles to fend for herself during which he remained faithful with Seeta........ I have a personal experience to share. I lost my mother in my childhood but my father refrained from remarrying because he wasn't sure whether any stepmother would give correct treatment. He dedicated his life to first raise me and thereafter my kids while I lived abroad for my career........... With such example benchmarks seen at multiple places, I will not spare Shantanu as never have faltered. Of course, I agree that he was a good administrator...... but then so was Raavana for Lanka and in current times, Hitler for Germany. Can they be spared as no fault of theirs?
So the destiny of these choices made by Shantanu, Satyavati and Devavrata is the birth of incapable Vichitraveerya and Chitrangada....... The cascade starts from thereon leading to a blind Dhrutarashtra and an anemic Pandu and a servant heir Vidur further.
Regarding Bheeshma and Rajdharma......... I wonder what he and Satyavati were doing when Vichitraveerya got addicted or when Chitrangada started getting air in his head?...... Aaj bhi bachche wrong path pe ja rahe hain, toh ek chamaat hum log laga hi dete hain for their own betterment...... So doesn't Bheeshma's Rajdharma include guiding these two heirs to proper kinghood...... And if he was as such the de facto King, then follow your parampara and make Dhrutarashtra the king..... Bheeshma and Pandu could easily take care of duties which he couldn't cater to...... Agar Vichitraveerya King ho sakata hai toh Dhrutarashtra kyun nahi?
If Bheeshma was truly fulfilling his duties, then he would give the example of Bharata and advise Satyavati on a deserving candidate from their huge family clans as there used to be. Or he would accept the non-fulfilment of his own oath...... By staying stuck on that oath, he only creates his name as Bheeshma...And this is his ahankaar... No benefit thereon for the great Kuru empire which had been running through generations...... In all further period, he is not decisive with anybody. With every non-choice of his, Hastinapur destiny gets worse and worse.
Dhrutarashtra and Pandu as per IVF logic given by you can be said sons of Ambika and Ambalika. But the claim that they are the heir of Kuruvansh ancestral property, Hastinapur kingdom, can be disputed even today, especially with DNA parenting becoming a vital test to prove the parentage.
Destruction is planned by Vidhata due to an overall social degradation including Varnabhed for treating Vidur as Daasiputra or Karna as Sootapootra, also treating the kingdom like personal property and not acting as public servant to Mother Earth and the Praja, gambling, disrespect for women.
Panchali and Arjun are Vidhata's mediums to bring the degradation cascade to the absolute base of Vastraharan and the real purpose of the entire Mahabharat, the Geeta.
I am not aware of Dhritarashtra not being considered the king. In that case, was Hastinapur Throne kept vacant till Kauravas and Pandavas grew old enough to show their colours? This is just my query.
Also, as per my information, Karna didn't live in the palace. He met Duryodhan and the other clan for the first time during the competition. Because he wanted to prove his archery skills against Arjuna and was denied the opportunity, his jealousy against Arjuna fired up.
Arjun had everything while Karna had none. Karna had his own set things too.:- I have a nephew who's an adopted child to middle-class parents. Today he has strived to become a successful businessman. By some conspiracy of the Universe, if he had Akash Ambani as an Opponent in some business competition, what would my nephew's winning chances be? Though his capabilities are much better because he didn't get anything on silver platter and then had to understand his being original orphan, so the mental trauma and adjustment thereafter. That's why I mentioned comparing Orange to apple.
I thought of Karna being devoted to Krishna based on my various readings and multiple serial depictions right from B R Chopra Mahabharat to Radha Krishna of StarPlus recently. If you have any PDF of the authentic Mahabharat edition, please do share across or copy paste the part where he tried to arrest Krishna. I have the belief, it was Duryodhana ordering his soldiers to arrest Krishna.
Pandavas are not Doodh ke dhoole, I agree. But that's the beauty of the scripture. I derive this trust that Narayana /Krishna is a true kamalnayan..... Like the Lotus grows in the mud-slush but the dirt doesn't touch it; so I may have multiple avagun, par voh chit nahi dharega..... he will see the goodness of my soul.
To Sima,
I humbly request once again. Could you please change the title from DOTM. The word debate gets a connotation like swords leke khade ho gaye...... Meemansa or Manthan is a much better way of having healthy sharing/discussion of paradigms. After all, what's the use of Mythology if we don't take learnings from it and implement in our lives?
In next one, if the title continues, I'll follow CB di's way and not share my views.
Edited by Loving2Missing2 - 2 months ago
i am also reading Valmiki Ramayan and facing same problem 
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...... Aur vaise bhi main thodi late lateef hoon, duniya mein bhi Nau mahine aur 12 din ke baad aayee
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