DOTM#2 : Arjuna's skill defines heroism more than Karna's integrity - Page 6

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Posted: 2 days ago
#51

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

First of all sorry for late reply and thanks for tagging 

I have a completely different opinion from most.. I don't think I fall in any group here just want to pen down my thoughts 


I don't think it was Arjun's skills that actually took him to the heroic position. To be honest I don't even think the composer even viewed Arjuna as the hero. The story was always of Yudhisthir, his journey, his misery, his decision, his virtues and ends when he gets his destination.


The reason we are seeing Arjun as hero is because he possesses all the qualities we want to see in our heros (and note, those do not actually define a hero, it's our imagination on what the hero should be). Arjun is a fearless warrior, he respects his elders but also speaks when they are wrong, he loves his wife, doesn't shy away from showcasing the soft side which other warriors feel are effeminacy (like his skills of music and dance) is the best friend of God himself to whom He decided to give the absolute knowledge. He is invincible (at least till the time of war the time till which most know the story about)

What else can we expect a hero to do? Right...

This was the reason why it's always that Arjun becomes the hero for us.

But do we ever wonder why it is so?? Isn't Nakul also proud of his charm and looks? Isn't Bheem a great warrior too? Doesn't he love his wife enough to kill Keechak for protecting her even if it could blow their cover despite his brother asking not to? Why isn't Sahdev and his wisdom ever talked about?


While I completely understand that Arjun was really great, but the reason why we feel him to be the hero is because despite Mahabharata being the journey of Yudhisthir, it was Arjun about whom we get to know the most. The reason for it according to me is pretty simple. Mahabharata as we know is a narration of those events to someone by Vaishampayan.. who is that someone?? Janmejaya, the great grandson of Arjun. Now think of it, when you are hearing a story of your ancestors, whom would you like to know more about?? Your direct ancestor or his brother/cousins??

Yes I agree every character was given its due because at the end of the day it was itihas and had to be told the way it was. But obviously while other's life was just glanced upon, each heroic of Arjun was explained in details. Even Arjun abducting Subhadra(great grandmother of Janmejaya) which wasn't anyway a more important event than say Nakul marrying Karenumati was explained in such a detal. Same as Abhimanyu Vadh, while definitely a sad moment, but was definitely not sadder than the deaths of others in their families especially in a war, yet it was only the grief after his death that was explained in such detail (others are passing references even that of someone as important as Ghatochkach - a theory states that his character was given prominence in Gupta period but that's for other time)

This is because Vaishampayan knew what will interest Janemejaya more. While Arjun's accomplishment was celebrated by him, even the vices of Arjun like the burning of KhandavVan which killed umpteen innocent animals and birds just to please Agni as some really good thing.


I think when knowingly or unknowingly so much importance is given to a character, he obviously will supersede and take the central position that makes him the hero of a story which isn't even his.


Now coming to Karna, I don't think he ever had any moral dillema or even a principle to stand for. There was only one sole objective of Karna, which was to defeat Arjun and prove his superiority. For him actually nothing mattered more.

He claimed he was a real friend of Duryodhan willing to do anything for him yet let him to die at the hands of Gandharva to fend for himself during Goshala Yatra. Denied to fight for him in war under Bheeshma only so that Bheeshma doesn't get credit of his heroics.

Contrary to the population opinion, even his principle of Dana wasn't something always followed to the core. He didn't give away his Kawatch kundal in daan, rather he explicitly traded him stating he would not part away from these unless Indra gives him a infallible weapon. He never had a moral dillema and was always sure at ease on what he is doing. Never did he lament his ills, not even at the end when Krishna reminded him of those.

Undoubtedly he was wronged, he might have even known by himself that he isn't a Suta but a nobel born by his strength which might have put him depressed, but even post that his life was better than majority population. He got to study from the best of teachers, he got to rule a state. His overlord actually took him as the go to man. It was his issue that he only focused on his problems and not the blessings.

To be honest I think had Kunti not abandoned him, his life as an illegitimate child would have been all the worse.


There was absolutely no reason why Karna should have been the hero. His skills were less than Arjun, his whole personality was defined by his obsession to Arjun, he was from the side of the losers and the story was being told to someone who was from opposite side (thereby by their perspective)


Wow this is an intresting perspective 🤔


I thought Arjun subhadra family equation was explained in details because 

1. Subhadra is Krishna's sis 

2. Abhimanyu is great warrior who learnt chakravyuh in his mother's womb 

3. Only his son is gonna survive after the war to continue the lineage of Pandavas 



 what's your pov on Krishna Arjuna bond then?

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Posted: 2 days ago
#52

Originally posted by: RamAayeHain


Wow this is an intresting perspective 🤔


I thought Arjun subhadra family equation was explained in details because 

1. Subhadra is Krishna's sis 

2. Abhimanyu is great warrior who learnt chakravyuh in his mother's womb 

3. Only his son is gonna survive after the war to continue the lineage of Pandavas 



 what's your pov on Krishna Arjuna bond then?

Thanks for the response. Krishna and Arjun definitely shared a great bond, They were closest to each other and could always rely onto one another


I am not saying that whatever was told was false, rather I am saying that when it came to Arjun, things which could have been communicated in a line was explained in a complete paragraph.


About your third point. Yes and it was the son of this son who was currently hearing the story hence they were given the requisite importance, else Subhadra was definitely not the only sister of Krishna. How much do we know about the daughters of Krishna?


Abhimanyu learning Chakravu technique in womb is another thing Mahabharat never says. What I mean is that Abhimanyu was a great warrior, but so were many others, yet they weren't given so much focus. 


P.S. long back I had made videos about myths of Mahabharat. Check it if you feel like. It also has a part 2


https://www.youtube.com/live/npgv93RU6I0?si=dT8ccnwZ636UmmqA 

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Posted: 2 days ago
#53

Ah Karna v/s Arjuna a debate that never ends.

I present my opinion from a logical perspective. Please feel free to dissect it.

Karna knew since he was a kid that he was adopted and he had a divine Armor and earrings whic resembled Suryadev's

That Karna was a suryaputra would be obvious to not just Karna but anyone who would see that Armor.


But as Surya had promised Kunti her virginity and his silence he never acknowledged Karna as his son till the very end, Same with Kunti herself. To protect her honor and her other 5 sons inheritance she never accepted Karna as her son.

Now imagine that the whole world knows you are Suryaputra but are never acknowledged as one.


On the other hand we have Arjuna... Whom Kunti showcases to the whole world as her son born to Indra. Indra himself leaves no single opportunity to tell the world that Arjuna is his son and even favours him all the time.

His birth is celebrated by Devas who come down for lavish ceremony at Shatasringa (word of it for sure would have spread every where). 

He tells Krishna after defeat Govardhan to b friend and guide his son Arjun

 He blesses his son during Khandavadahan after staging his bravery showcase for the whole world

 It was showcase much better than Rangabhoomi because Indra through Agni and Varuna also arranged for Arjuna to have the best chariot Bow Quiver and Conch

Then even takes him to heaven during exile and makes him sit on his own throne.

Finally makes Karna give up his Armor for his son.


It would I am sure boil Karna's blood as to how easily Arjuna could tom tom he was Pandu Putra and Indra Putra 

While Karna could only call himself son of Adhiratha 

That and the fact the Arjuna excelled every time Karna failed .....

 That was all it was about Karna versus Arjuna. Why Karna was so jealous of Arjuna wanted him to be defeated and killed by him.

He could have let it go like other Pandava brothers, their divine fathers too never made noise like Indra though they did acknowledge Pandvaas as their sons


But Karna could never let it go. He took shortcuts cheated lied abused assaulted and did whatever else he could to prove himself better than Arjuna but only ended up proving himself worst, justifying Surya and Kunti 

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Posted: a day ago
#54

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Thanks for the response. Krishna and Arjun definitely shared a great bond, They were closest to each other and could always rely onto one another


I am not saying that whatever was told was false, rather I am saying that when it came to Arjun, things which could have been communicated in a line was explained in a complete paragraph.


About your third point. Yes and it was the son of this son who was currently hearing the story hence they were given the requisite importance, else Subhadra was definitely not the only sister of Krishna. How much do we know about the daughters of Krishna?


Abhimanyu learning Chakravu technique in womb is another thing Mahabharat never says. What I mean is that Abhimanyu was a great warrior, but so were many others, yet they weren't given so much focus. 


P.S. long back I had made videos about myths of Mahabharat. Check it if you feel like. It also has a part 2


https://www.youtube.com/live/npgv93RU6I0?si=dT8ccnwZ636UmmqA 



Wow your channel is full of topics I am interested in 🤩🤩🤩 weekend plans 🤩🤩


B- damn my Mahabharata knowledge is so weak 😮🙃 I know more fiction than original text 🤦, I have to read Mahabharata soon,  the story is so big that I get lazy just thinking about reading it smiley36but I have to 😅


Subhadra is definitely not the only sister 😮then why only she's prayed with krishna and balram in Jagannath 

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Team Arjun

Posted: a day ago
#55

Originally posted by: RamAayeHain



Wow your channel is full of topics I am interested in 🤩🤩🤩 weekend plans 🤩🤩


B- damn my Mahabharata knowledge is so weak 😮🙃 I know more fiction than original text 🤦, I have to read Mahabharata soon,  the story is so big that I get lazy just thinking about reading it smiley36but I have to 😅


Subhadra is definitely not the only sister 😮then why only she's prayed with krishna and balram in Jagannath 


I m currently reading Vyasa's MBsmiley36 nd yep its really big.. nd due to time constrain i give like half hr only 


Subhadra was Yogmaya i think thats why only she is give importance over othet sisters of Krishna. Vasudevji had wives apart from Devaki and Rohini (i think 7 wives not sure)

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Posted: a day ago
#56

Originally posted by: RamAayeHain



Wow your channel is full of topics I am interested in 🤩🤩🤩 weekend plans 🤩🤩


B- damn my Mahabharata knowledge is so weak 😮🙃 I know more fiction than original text 🤦, I have to read Mahabharata soon,  the story is so big that I get lazy just thinking about reading it smiley36but I have to 😅


Subhadra is definitely not the only sister 😮then why only she's prayed with krishna and balram in Jagannath 

Thankyou dear. Hope you like the content,


I know even I was surprised when I read Mahabharat the first time. It was like everything I knew was wrong. Such a rude shock it was.


@bold, will it surprise you to know that even Balram wasn't the only brother of Krishna? He had multiple brothers. Harivanshpurana mentions his father totally had 86 children from his various wives (definitely not all would have stayed alive) Krishna is sometimes mentioned as Gada's brother, Gada was therefore another brother of Krishna

These three however were most important and widely known. Hence this is how only they are worshipped.


My personal opinion (this is strictly my inference not conclusive)-- The third deity being worshipped in Jagganath wasn't originally Subhadra but Ekanamsha


Some of the oldest excavations in India(dating from 50 BCE-100CE) especially around the Mathura region (but also as far as in present day Afghanistan) show the glimpses of the 5 Vrishni heroes-- Krishna(Vasudeva), Balrama (Samkarshan), Pradumnya, Anirudhha and Samba. However at places there are also only 3 heroes available all with weapons where two are males Vasudeva and Samkarshan along with a female Ekanamsha. All three here are having their weapons and are represented as warriors.


Unfortunately we don't know now much about her, but at a time, she was highly worshipped by the worshippers of Vrishni. Some later texts state she was The daughter of Nand and Yashoda that was exchanged at birth (hence adopted Vrishni)

Whatsoever slowly her worship decreased and today most even don't know her name. I personally feel that originally the Jagganath was worshipped along with Baldev and her, but as people forgot her, slowly that third deity was accepted as Subhadra. All the more reason because some folklore says she was later reincarnated as Subhadra

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Posted: a day ago
#57

Originally posted by: RainOfDew


I m currently reading Vyasa's MBsmiley36 nd yep its really big.. nd due to time constrain i give like half hr only 


Subhadra was Yogmaya i think thats why only she is give importance over othet sisters of Krishna. Vasudevji had wives apart from Devaki and Rohini (i think 7 wives not sure)

@bold is this part there in Mahabharat? I don't remember that

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Team Arjun

Posted: a day ago
#58

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

@bold is this part there in Mahabharat? I don't remember that


Nope i havent came across that yet. They shown that in SPMB but i m not sure.

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Team Arjun

Posted: a day ago
#59

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Thankyou dear. Hope you like the content,


I know even I was surprised when I read Mahabharat the first time. It was like everything I knew was wrong. Such a rude shock it was.




I m feeling the same since last 2 yrssmiley1Such a brutal betrayal and shock it is. If we would tell anyone today most of them wont believe it coz they r brainwashed by TV shows and other sources so badly.

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Posted: a day ago
#60

Originally posted by: RainOfDew


I m currently reading Vyasa's MBsmiley36 nd yep its really big.. nd due to time constrain i give like half hr only 


Subhadra was Yogmaya i think thats why only she is give importance over othet sisters of Krishna. Vasudevji had wives apart from Devaki and Rohini (i think 7 wives not sure)


I totally understand smiley36i am also reading Valmiki Ramayan and facing same problem 


B- ohh this one is fact, chalo kuch to sahi information di gayi hai serial mein 😅

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