Pati patni aur panga - Page 5

Originally posted by: Sharpener

Very well articulated!

I have never said that it's wrong or not not realistic for people to identify with the opposite gender. If a man identifies with a female body and wants to transition into that, more power to him! All I'm saying is that he can become a transwoman, but never technically become a woman, that's all.

I think it's more to do with the heavy insistence of trans people "technically" not being a man/woman.

Nobody is claiming that the body of a transwoman/transman is 100% equivalent to a biological woman/man.

But you have to realize that it's the BIGGEST, HARSH reality of their lives.

The fact that they're trans, is because they're born in the wrong body. That's the whole point they want transition i.e, to become who they really are.

So, when you look at it like, "Oh! a man is becoming a woman, OR a woman is becoming a man" it sort of complicates the whole thing and sounds insensitive.

Why can't we look at it like, "Oh! this person was born trans, but now they're taking medical help and transitioning their body as per their inner gender"?

Off course, they would never be able to 'technically' be 100% close to biological men/women but they will still become pretty close to their inner-real self, right? Because they're not 100% man/woman even before transition, because their mind and body are functioning in opposite directions. It's an inbuilt feeling they are born with and it only gets worse and worse with age. That's why so many of them end up taking their lives.

We can't even imagine what having that feeling must be like.

So why every time transsexuality is mentioned, we end up saying stuff like "Transman is still a woman, or Transwoman is still a man" ? Can you imagine how hurtful it must be for the community, coz we're in a way negating their whole existence/experience. By saying this, we're in a way telling them there is no place for them in the world, their feelings are not real etc etc.

Unfortunately, Transexuality is often poorly represented in the media. With so many cases of fraud trans folks nowadays, the concern is real.

e.g. men taking hormones to look like women just to get work in sexually exploiting industries, though in reality they've no really gender dysphoria OR doctors performing forced sex-changes etc etc etc.

All of this is very problematic & creating issues for 'real' trans folks who actually need help.
I think that's why OP created this post, that the film/series in question might send a wrong message.

This discussion is no more on BW.

Shall we carry on this debate on the forum specially dedicated for such debates!!

Originally posted by: diasingh2

I think it's more to do with the heavy insistence of trans people "technically" not being a man/woman.

Nobody is claiming that the body of a transwoman/transman is 100% equivalent to a biological woman/man.

But you have to realize that it's the BIGGEST, HARSH reality of their lives.

The fact that they're trans, is because they're born in the wrong body. That's the whole point they want transition i.e, to become who they really are.

So, when you look at it like, "Oh! a man is becoming a woman, OR a woman is becoming a man" it sort of complicates the whole thing and sounds insensitive.

Why can't we look at it like, "Oh! this person was born trans, but now they're taking medical help and transitioning their body as per their inner gender"?

Off course, they would never be able to 'technically' be 100% close to biological men/women but they will still become pretty close to their inner-real self, right? Because they're not 100% man/woman even before transition, because their mind and body are functioning in opposite directions. It's an inbuilt feeling they are born with and it only gets worse and worse with age. That's why so many of them end up taking their lives.

We can't even imagine what having that feeling must be like.

So why every time transsexuality is mentioned, we end up saying stuff like "Transman is still a woman, or Transwoman is still a man" ? Can you imagine how hurtful it must be for the community, coz we're in a way negating their whole existence/experience. By saying this, we're in a way telling them there is no place for them in the world, their feelings are not real etc etc.

Unfortunately, Transexuality is often poorly represented in the media. With so many cases of fraud trans folks nowadays, the concern is real.

e.g. men taking hormones to look like women just to get work in sexually exploiting industries, though in reality they've no really gender dysphoria OR doctors performing forced sex-changes etc etc etc.

All of this is very problematic & creating issues for 'real' trans folks who actually need help.
I think that's why OP created this post, that the film/series in question might send a wrong message.

You are right, it does sound insensitive to say a transwoman is still a man. They are transwomen in all their right and they can resonate with or identify with women as much as they'd like to, they should have that right to go through surgeries and hormone replacements to align their bodies with their spirit. Still though, they are not women and they can't claim to be a woman.

I work in healthcare so there is no such thing as men by birth now identifying as women or women by birth identifying as men. XX is a man, XY is a woman (of course there are exceptions like intersex people).

Originally posted by: Sharpener

You are right, it does sound insensitive to say a transwoman is still a man. They are transwomen in all their right and they can resonate with or identify with women as much as they'd like to, they should have that right to go through surgeries and hormone replacements to align their bodies with their spirit. Still though, they are not women and they can't claim to be a woman.

I work in healthcare so there is no such thing as men by birth now identifying as women or women by birth identifying as men. XX is a man, XY is a woman (of course there are exceptions like intersex people).

I think you meant XX is woman n XY is a man 👍✔️

Originally posted by: Sharpener

The XX chromosomes. Something a man or a transwoman can never have.

That's your own definition. Science doesn't say that it's necessary to have XX chromosomes to be called a female.

There are women who are born with a Y chromosome and still look completely female.

Originally posted by: Harley_Quinn

That's your own definition. Science doesn't say that it's necessary to have XX chromosomes to be called a female.

There are women who are born with a Y chromosome and still look completely female.

We aren't talking about abnormalities or exceptions, I am talking about the norm. If you are XX your genetic and physiological make-up is that of a woman and XY of a man. So it's pretty simple ~ men are men, trans men are trans men, trans women are trans women and women are women, and quite inaccurate & borderline delusional and misleading to claim otherwise.

Originally posted by: Sharpener

We aren't talking about abnormalities or exceptions, I am talking about the norm. If you are XX your genetic and physiological make-up is that of a woman and XY of a man. So it's pretty simple ~ men are men, trans men are trans men, trans women are trans women and women are women, and quite inaccurate & borderline delusional and misleading to claim otherwise.

It's you who is being delusional by claiming that anything other than XX can't be a woman and anything other than XY can't be a man, when that's not true. It's not that simple.

"Abnormalities and exceptions" existing itself is a fact sex is not binary. And the norm which you are talking about is just man-made BS due to which trans people suffer.

Originally posted by: Harley_Quinn

It's you who is being delusional by claiming that anything other than XX can't be a woman and anything other than XY can't be a man, when that's not true. It's not that simple.

"Abnormalities and exceptions" existing itself is a fact sex is not binary. And the norm which you are talking about is just man-made BS due to which trans people suffer.

everything you said 👏

the way humans have this notion that anyone other then XY can’t be called men and anyone other then XX can’t be called women is sickening and wrong on so many levels

Originally posted by: Harley_Quinn

It's you who is being delusional by claiming that anything other than XX can't be a woman and anything other than XY can't be a man, when that's not true. It's not that simple.

"Abnormalities and exceptions" existing itself is a fact sex is not binary. And the norm which you are talking about is just man-made BS due to which trans people suffer.

There is nothing delusional about stating medical facts. Any doctor would tell you that XX and XY is the norm, anything else is an abnormal genetic mutation that results in rare disorders.

Originally posted by: Sharpener

There is nothing delusional about stating medical facts. Any doctor would tell you that XX and XY is the norm, anything else is an abnormal genetic mutation that results in rare disorders.

“The idea that a person’s sex is determined by their anatomy at birth is not true, and we’ve known that it’s not true for decades,” said Dr. Joshua D. Safer, an endocrinologist and executive director of the Center for Transgender Medicine and Surgery at Mount Sinai Health System in New York.

There you go ... are now gonna talk over a doctor as well who knows his shit and is one of the most experienced doctor ?!!
and when people say educate yourself you read the articles and statements given by doctors in 2020 and not in 1720 and you listen to trans ppl who have been saying how ppl should identify them and not speak over them