physical description of pandavas and pandav queens - Page 6

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Krishna was deified and worshipped by Parikshit and Vajra. Vajra was the first one to make his idol and get it installed at several places including Mathura to start his worship on par with Shiva and Devi. As till then only Shiva Linga and Devi Murthy existed. Only these two had temples no one else.

Once Krishna was declared lord and master of universe. Dwarkadhish was a natural epithet.

But the Dwarkadhish means God of Dwarka.

Dwarka Ish - war.

And not king of Dwarka.

Ugrasen was alive till Ashwamedha. Then Vasudeva became King after that Balrama's turn it would have been and then Krishna and then Pradyumna.

Balrama's problem was that Krishna was better than him in all respects and he was scared of losing his rightful place to Krishna.

Was Vajra a Vaishanavite? Or did Krishna start as an independent God only to be highjacked by the Vaishanavites as happened with Buddha?

Krishna (and Ram) were worshipped as VishnuAvtaar during Buddha's time, if we consider that Mahabharata happened around 1200BCE(I don't think around 3000BCE is a possibility since there are only around 45 kings between Jarasandh and Chandragupta Maurya. 45 kings can't rule for 2700 years, an average of 60 years per king is nearly impossible, an average reign of 20 years per king seems more possible to me, plus Nandas although being 9 kings were only two generations. I know you opine differently) Krishna had become a Vishnu Avtaar in 700 years.

I do think that Vajra didn't call him an Avtar of Vishnu since till later Vedic period Vishnu was just the younger brother of Indra (Upendra), His Godly status started in the end later Vedic age.

Vajra would have just started the worshipping of Krishna like people of today started for Sai Baba, later the Vaishnavites just made Krishna their own

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Krishna was deified and worshipped by Parikshit and Vajra. Vajra was the first one to make his idol and get it installed at several places including Mathura to start his worship on par with Shiva and Devi. As till then only Shiva Linga and Devi Murthy existed. Only these two had temples no one else.

Once Krishna was declared lord and master of universe. Dwarkadhish was a natural epithet.

But the Dwarkadhish means God of Dwarka.

Dwarka Ish - war.

And not king of Dwarka.

Ugrasen was alive till Ashwamedha. Then Vasudeva became King after that Balrama's turn it would have been and then Krishna and then Pradyumna.

Balrama's problem was that Krishna was better than him in all respects and he was scared of losing his rightful place to Krishna.

@ chiilii

Mb unbrigade version had Urvashi cursing arjun to be eunuch thing is present coz he refused her sexual advances but bori ce no Urvashi curse & says arjun choose to act as eunuch to protect draupadi .

I m failing to believe bori version coz if arjun choose to act as eunuch to protect draupadi , then it was of no use coz kichak was constantly haressing draupadi then why arjun dint protected her , first she complained to Yudi , who told her to bear with it , latter she approached bheem who killed kichak. Draupadi would had directly approached arjun who was closet to her at time.

Whatever I read 4 arjun I found he had metrosexual characteristics, means his love 4 female activities like dancing , singing , spending time with women , infact both krishna & arjun had these characteristics in them .

I feel like YBNS choose to do what they r good at , arjun too choose to do what he was good at apart from his archery skills. Draupadi to was said to be expert in all kind of fashion during agyatvas.

I read when arjun as brihanlala came before viratraj , he refused to believe arjun to be eunuch .

Plus viratraj was definitely not a fool who will let anyone enter women quarter as eunuch without checking him .

Ya maybe by simply by seeing d talent & behaviour Viratraj allowed arjun

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

@ chiilii

Mb unbrigade version had Urvashi cursing arjun to be eunuch thing is present coz he refused her sexual advances but bori ce no Urvashi curse & says arjun choose to act as eunuch to protect draupadi .

I m failing to believe bori version coz if arjun choose to act as eunuch to protect draupadi , then it was of no use coz kichak was constantly haressing draupadi then why arjun dint protected her , first she complained to Yudi , who told her to bear with it , latter she approached bheem who killed kichak. Draupadi would had directly approached arjun who was closet to her at time.

Whatever I read 4 arjun I found he had metrosexual characteristics, means his love 4 female activities like dancing , singing , spending time with women , infact both krishna & arjun had these characteristics in them .

I feel like YBNS choose to do what they r good at , arjun too choose to do what he was good at apart from his archery skills. Draupadi to was said to be expert in all kind of fashion during agyatvas.

I read when arjun as brihanlala came before viratraj , he refused to believe arjun to be eunuch .

Plus viratraj was definitely not a fool who will let anyone enter women quarter as eunuch without checking him .

Ya maybe by simply by seeing d talent & behaviour Viratraj allowed arjun

No one could become a eunuch due to the curse of someone. If we believe that Urvashi arranged for him getting castrate then that's a different case, but then Arjun remained so for his complete life. But that seems remotest of possibility because Urvashi was kind of a courtesan at the place of Arjun's biological father (whosoever it was, maybe Sakra-- I personally think, completely my belief he could have been the Pharaoh of Egypt since Egyptian considered the Pharaoh as the God on earth and considering Aryan invasion theory true, that's around the place where their gods came from). Anyhow so definitely Urvashi wouldn'thave dared to go into such extreme measures against the son of her master.

This one year eunuch thing is definitely an added addition. Arjun just posed as one, or worst case he was castrated n remained so throughout his life but was given kind of a justification/glorification that is was just for a year, just as that mahan YakshaPrashan episode was added to make Yudhishtir seem great. And yes castration doesn't take away your strength/greatness. Even if he was he would have still remained as great an archer and as good a person as he always was

Coming to why he didn't help Draupadi. Yudhishtir didn't want them to do any such thing. Plus Arjun wasn't physically strong to defeat Keechak, his strength was archery and they didn't carry their weapons with them to Matasya desh. Draupadi knew Arjun wouldn't be able to do much in this case.

BORI has removed miracles from the epic. So curse is not there. Neither is Krishna hiding the sun to kill Jayadrath.

Brihannala was a disguise that Arjun chose was for two reasons

1. It was least expected from the most formidable warrior of the time to take on the disguise of eunuch.

Duryodhan's spies would look for him as soldier bodyguard of King or servant.

He had numerous marks on his arms on account of the several battles he had fought. He could not cover them as a servant

Bangles provided that cover. And as a eunuch he could also keep himself draped at all times

2. Knowledge of music and dance provided him the Employement otherwise what use would a king have for an Eunuch in woman's quarters. It would be either the role of bodyguard. Where he could be found out or this..

And no one yet knew that he had learned music and dance in swarga. They may have found out about weapons but not this.

Protecting Draupadi was not the reason though many presume it was. Because Arjun was always at Uttara's side not Drauapdi's who had to run errands for the queen as her maiden.

He was in no position to tag along Draupadi as an when required.

There is an invisible Rakshasa sent by Surya at Draupadi's prayer who pushes Keechaka when he assaults her.

But I feel that was Draupadi herself and not Arjun as Arjun as Brihannala is not invisible and he wouldn't dare push Keechaka in public lest he wanted to be found out

Originally posted by: Chiillii

BORI has removed miracles from the epic. So curse is not there. Neither is Krishna hiding the sun to kill Jayadrath.

Brihannala was a disguise that Arjun chose was for two reasons

1. It was least expected from the most formidable warrior of the time to take on the disguise of eunuch.

Duryodhan's spies would look for him as soldier bodyguard of King or servant.

He had numerous marks on his arms on account of the several battles he had fought. He could not cover them as a servant

Bangles provided that cover. And as a eunuch he could also keep himself draped at all times

2. Knowledge of music and dance provided him the Employement otherwise what use would a king have for an Eunuch in woman's quarters. It would be either the role of bodyguard. Where he could be found out or this..

And no one yet knew that he had learned music and dance in swarga. They may have found out about weapons but not this.

Protecting Draupadi was not the reason though many presume it was. Because Arjun was always at Uttara's side not Drauapdi's who had to run errands for the queen as her maiden.

He was in no position to tag along Draupadi as an when required.

There is an invisible Rakshasa sent by Surya at Draupadi's prayer who pushes Keechaka when he assaults her.

But I feel that was Draupadi herself and not Arjun as Arjun as Brihannala is not invisible and he wouldn't dare push Keechaka in public lest he wanted to be found out

I think Deepika has a point. How did Virat allow him in female compartment without some examination

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Was Vajra a Vaishanavite? Or did Krishna start as an independent God only to be highjacked by the Vaishanavites as happened with Buddha?

Krishna (and Ram) were worshipped as VishnuAvtaar during Buddha's time, if we consider that Mahabharata happened around 1200BCE(I don't think around 3000BCE is a possibility since there are only around 45 kings between Jarasandh and Chandragupta Maurya. 45 kings can't rule for 2700 years, an average of 60 years per king is nearly impossible, an average reign of 20 years per king seems more possible to me, plus Nandas although being 9 kings were only two generations. I know you opine differently) Krishna had become a Vishnu Avtaar in 700 years.

I do think that Vajra didn't call him an Avtar of Vishnu since till later Vedic period Vishnu was just the younger brother of Indra (Upendra), His Godly status started in the end later Vedic age.

Vajra would have just started the worshipping of Krishna like people of today started for Sai Baba, later the Vaishnavites just made Krishna their own

Chhiillli any idea on this

Proving oneself a man is difficult and so was proving paternity in that era. Proving oneself an eunuch is not. Most of the time self acknowledgement of impotency or being an eunuch is enough. Because of the shame associated with it.

Men went out of their way to cover up their impotency like Pandu did with the curse.

Here a man was openly saying he is an eunuch and behaving like one.

Of course Virat may be suspicious just like he was suspicious of Yudhishtir who had the aura of a king but said was a servant or Sudeshna who was unable to believe Draupadi who was more beautiful and regal than an Apsara was a hair dresser.

But these suspicions could be taken care of easily. He didn't have to be physically castrated to prove himself a eunuch. The king or anybody else was not going to ask him to take of the pants every time he came across. Some random guard would be asked to take him to a room and check. That could be easily handled. Arjun would have bribed the guard who did his physical exam. It was that easy.

Or Virat gave them shelter knowingly to get rid of Keechaka who had covertly taken control of his kingdom and Susharma of Trigarth who was threatening his borders.

The Abhi Uttara marriage may have happened after the exile but it could have been negotiated in secret before the exile started.

But never disclosed publicly because the terms of the second dice game was that other than pandavas and Draupadi themselves not just kouravas, no one should know who they were, not even their family.

That is why they didn't go to PAnchal or any of their Sasural.

To ensure Kouravas don't accuse them of cheating.

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Proving oneself a man is difficult and so was proving paternity in that era. Proving oneself an eunuch is not. Most of the time self acknowledgement of impotency or being an eunuch is enough. Because of the shame associated with it.

Men went out of their way to cover up their impotency like Pandu did with the curse.

Here a man was openly saying he is an eunuch and behaving like one.

Of course Virat may be suspicious just like he was suspicious of Yudhishtir who had the aura of a king but said was a servant or Sudeshna who was unable to believe Draupadi who was more beautiful and regal than an Apsara was a hair dresser.

But these suspicions could be taken care of easily. He didn't have to be physically castrated to prove himself a eunuch. The king or anybody else was not going to ask him to take of the pants every time he came across. Some random guard would be asked to take him to a room and check. That could be easily handled. Arjun would have bribed the guard who did his physical exam. It was that easy.

Or Virat gave them shelter knowingly to get rid of Keechaka who had covertly taken control of his kingdom and Susharma of Trigarth who was threatening his borders.

The Abhi Uttara marriage may have happened after the exile but it could have been negotiated in secret before the exile started.

But never disclosed publicly because the terms of the second dice game was that other than pandavas and Draupadi themselves not just kouravas, no one should know who they were, not even their family.

That is why they didn't go to PAnchal or any of their Sasural.

To ensure Kouravas don't accuse them of cheating.

That makes sense. It could have been a mutual symbiotic treaty between them. Poor Keechak could have been actually lured to death.

Anyhow that curse thing actually isn't possible at all

By the way Chiillii did you find the generations of Hastinapur post Janamejay? Hastinapur was not one of the 16 Janpads of India right? So wasn't Indraprasth! Did Koshal take over them and destroyed the entire kingdom by annexing them?

I have read that the kingdom of Anga was annexed by Bimbisar around 5th Century BCE, when did it happen for Hastinapur/Indraprasth

Another question if Jaidrath wasn't killed post sunset, why day 14 was the first day when war continued post sunset. In fact they didn't continue even on the later days

Why was day 14 so special

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Another question if Jaidrath wasn't killed post sunset, why day 14 was the first day when war continued post sunset. In fact they didn't continue even on the later days

Why was day 14 so special

Rules of fair engagement were broken from day one. Bhishma the one who made the rules himself was attacking Charioteers and doing group attacks.

One thing that however continued till Abhimanyu Vadh was ceasefire at night. So that soldiers could rest. Wounded tended to.

Abhimanyu vadh brought an end to that as well.

Day 14 onwards it was non stop fight. Arjun simply continued after sunset.

Ghatothkach's Rakshasa army was lethal in the darkness. They were trained warriors who used to live in the jungles in darkness, where lighting a fire or lamp was impossible most of the time because of wildfires. Unlike in urban settlements. So Rakshasa really came on their own in night battles.

That is why Karna or anybody else who needed visibility to fight were useless against ghatothkach and his army. therefore Karna had to use Shakti eventually.

After Abhimanyu's funeral war did not stop till Duryodhan Bhima battle. At one point Arjun had to engage kouravas non stop to give his soldiers break.