i hated that scene too. felt bad for arjun. they really dint have anyone to support them completely unless krishna came along.
what i meant was it should be arjun who should be holding a grudge against karna and not vice versa
i dont understand karnas obsession with Arjun though. did Arjun do any bad to him or insult him.
⭐️MB's Arjun sure dint but i dont know about the epic Arjun.
Why did he have to wash Karna's feet?
Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.
This part is actually very confusing. I am no way a Karna supporter, but Karna being a part of Bheem's poisoning does not add up. When Bheem's poisoning happened, Karna & Duryodhana probably did not even meet each other. In Shanti Parva, Narada told that Duryodhan & Karna met in Drona's Gurukul and Karna was jealous of Yudhistira's intelligence, Bheema's strength, Arjuna's Dhanurvidya & the twin's humility. If it's so, then how can Karna be a part of Bheem's poisoning which happened before they joined Gurukul?
While the poisoning incident is being described, there also was no mention of Karna
“Meanwhile the wicked Duryodhana had mixed a powerful poison with a quantity of food, with the object of making away with Bhima. That wicked youth who had nectar in his tongue and a razor in his heart, rose at length, and in a friendly way fed Bhima largely with that poisoned food, and thinking himself lucky in having compassed his end, was exceedingly glad at heart. Then the sons of Dhritarashtra and Pandu together became cheerfully engaged in sporting in the water.”
Bheema also confirmed that only Duryodhan was responsible.
“Then Bhima, endued with great strength and prowess, related to his brothers everything about the villainy of Duryodhana, and the lucky and unlucky incidents that had befallen him in the world of the Serpents.”
Karna is not mentioned anywhere here. But later while recounting the sins of Karna, Vasudeva mentions that Karna was part of Bheem's poisoning. There is an inconsistency here.
Going by the events' chronology it does not look like Karna & Duryodhan knew each other at the time of Bheema's poisoning. So I don't count that part. But Karna was a jalkukda through & through for sure and totally egged on Duryodhan against the Pandavas.
"When that terrible poison intended for the destruction of Bhima failed of its effect, Duryodhana. Karna and Sakuni, without giving up their wicked design had recourse to numerous other contrivances for accomplishing the death of the Pandavas. And though every one of these contrivances was fully known to the Pandavas, yet in accordance with the advice of Vidura they suppressed their indignation.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01130.htm
The exact portion of Bheem poisoning does not mention Duryodhan, but the Sambhavna Parva has Karna among the ones plotting after Poisoning plan failed. This accompanied by Vasudev mentioning about the Poisoning thing makes this pretty clear that he was a part of the plan even if he wasn't as active participant as he was for Lakshagriha conspiracy or DiceHall disrobe
I have read that mention of Narad mentioning Karna n Duryodhan getting acquainted at Dron Ashram, but I am not taking it at face value, I rather think it probably before the DronAshram Karna wasn't someone important to Duryodhan.
I have a theory about it
I personally feel that probably Adhirath was a friend/charioteer of Dhritrashtra, since there is no other reason why he and his family lived in Hastinapur and they got Karna trained by Dronacharya.
Anyhow maybe not a rule, but there was a trend of the hereditary with the next generation inheriting the duties of his father, hence Karna would probably have been looked upon as the next generation king's charioteer. That explains why Bheem got angry at him challenging Arjun.
We all know that a good charioteer is very important for any warrior and there needs to be good coordination between the two. Hence probably to ensure a good level coordination, mutual trust and team work, Dhritrashtra (who wanted Duryodhan to succeed him) got Karna as his accomplice (read loyal servant, man in waiting etc.) And definitely that experiment helped, since both got way too coordinated.
There would definitely have been multiple servants who would have helped Duryodhan in this act and not all could be mentioned
I think by the time of Bheem poisoning, Karna was just one of Duryodhan's servants on whom he trusted more than others, hence no one actually paid much heed to his role (i.e. the role of a servant) the entire blame went to the master Duryodhan
Post this during the DronAshram, maybe mutual dislike of Pandavas or maybe Karna's unfaded loyalty brought them closer and Karna slowly became a friendly accomplice to Duryodhan and not a servant anymore. Henceforth people actually started noticing him because he was now somehow an equal to Duryodhan.
Over the years their affection continued to grow and by the time of Rangbhumi or after that they became best friends.
To think of it, Duryodhan n Karna weren't name sake friends, they literally resonated each other's thought. They could communicate among themselves without words, this kind of relationship needs time to develop and couldn't be just overnight. So I think DuryKarna knorw each other before DronAshram
Although going by this explanation you might exclude Karna from poisoning crime since he was just following his master as a servant
Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.
@Bold : That's another debate altogether... I was just saying that the use of Bramhastra may have ended with a same side goal type of result 😆😆 And if he was attempted to be punished for that, well...he could obvio destroy the rest of his own army & score a few more same side goals 😆😆 Pandavas would have thanked him for that🤣
@Underlined : Lol 😆 What a twist it would have been 🤣🤣
About Bheema : Well it is not like Bheema could do anything regarding the Shaanti Prastav. It was Yudhistir's idea and you know the "dharma" in those days. He could not have opposed Yudhistir's decision openly. So he was okay with the Shanti Prastav, no idea if he was content. But once it was war & they were in war field...things get different. He very well would have fulfilled his oath regardless of whether Dury survived or not. Unless Yudhistir poked in again & clearly forbade him from doing so.😆
I meant exactly the same about Bheema, Yudhishtir's words were more important to him than his oath
Going by Yudhishtir's character, he would have definitely asked Bheem to stop attacking Dusshashan (or anyone) after the death Duryodhan and ending of the war.
For the first part, I think Ashwathama would have to use Brahmashira against Karna then
Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism
Why did he have to wash Karna's feet?
Because Karn passed on a really insulting comment towards Arjun (I don't remember exactly word by word... but it was intended as to call Arjun a male courtesan) when he was playing Veena in the celebratory dinner kept for the return of the princes. Karn passed on the comment, Duryodhan & gang laughed... Arjun got offended & took out a sword and challenged Karn in a duel. Bhisma intervened & decided Arjun have insulted their guest Anggraaj by raising weapon against him & he deserves a punishment. Karn decided (or Duryodhan? I don't remember exactly) he wanted Arjun to wash his feet & say sorry. To keep Bhisma's honour Arjun had to do it. Karn's typical smirk & Arjun's frustrated face....such a cringe it was🤢
Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism
I meant exactly the same about Bheema, Yudhishtir's words were more important to him than his oath
Going by Yudhishtir's character, he would have definitely asked Bheem to stop attacking Dusshashan (or anyone) after the death Duryodhan and ending of the war.
For the first part, I think Ashwathama would have to use Brahmashira against Karna then
Oh yes! Ashwatthama was there. Even Drona was there. Karn could have been thrashed if the chance occurred 😆
Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism
"When that terrible poison intended for the destruction of Bhima failed of its effect, Duryodhana. Karna and Sakuni, without giving up their wicked design had recourse to numerous other contrivances for accomplishing the death of the Pandavas. And though every one of these contrivances was fully known to the Pandavas, yet in accordance with the advice of Vidura they suppressed their indignation.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01130.htm
The exact portion of Bheem poisoning does not mention Duryodhan, but the Sambhavna Parva has Karna among the ones plotting after Poisoning plan failed. This accompanied by Vasudev mentioning about the Poisoning thing makes this pretty clear that he was a part of the plan even if he wasn't as active participant as he was for Lakshagriha conspiracy or DiceHall disrobe
I have read that mention of Narad mentioning Karna n Duryodhan getting acquainted at Dron Ashram, but I am not taking it at face value, I rather think it probably before the DronAshram Karna wasn't someone important to Duryodhan.
I have a theory about it
I personally feel that probably Adhirath was a friend/charioteer of Dhritrashtra, since there is no other reason why he and his family lived in Hastinapur and they got Karna trained by Dronacharya.
Anyhow maybe not a rule, but there was a trend of the hereditary with the next generation inheriting the duties of his father, hence Karna would probably have been looked upon as the next generation king's charioteer. That explains why Bheem got angry at him challenging Arjun.
We all know that a good charioteer is very important for any warrior and there needs to be good coordination between the two. Hence probably to ensure a good level coordination, mutual trust and team work, Dhritrashtra (who wanted Duryodhan to succeed him) got Karna as his accomplice (read loyal servant, man in waiting etc.) And definitely that experiment helped, since both got way too coordinated.
There would definitely have been multiple servants who would have helped Duryodhan in this act and not all could be mentioned
I think by the time of Bheem poisoning, Karna was just one of Duryodhan's servants on whom he trusted more than others, hence no one actually paid much heed to his role (i.e. the role of a servant) the entire blame went to the master Duryodhan
Post this during the DronAshram, maybe mutual dislike of Pandavas or maybe Karna's unfaded loyalty brought them closer and Karna slowly became a friendly accomplice to Duryodhan and not a servant anymore. Henceforth people actually started noticing him because he was now somehow an equal to Duryodhan.
Over the years their affection continued to grow and by the time of Rangbhumi or after that they became best friends.
To think of it, Duryodhan n Karna weren't name sake friends, they literally resonated each other's thought. They could communicate among themselves without words, this kind of relationship needs time to develop and couldn't be just overnight. So I think DuryKarna knorw each other before DronAshram
Although going by this explanation you might exclude Karna from poisoning crime since he was just following his master as a servant
Oh. Thank you for the citations😊 So Karna was a part of Bheem's poisoning. 🥱 God....such a pathetic guy he is. By then he was an adult & was planning a child's murder & encouraging another child to do it🤢
And your explanation seems quite plausible. Karna & Duryodhan could have met through Adhiratha.
Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.
Because Karn passed on a really insulting comment towards Arjun (I don't remember exactly word by word... but it was intended as to call Arjun a male courtesan) when he was playing Veena in the celebratory dinner kept for the return of the princes. Karn passed on the comment, Duryodhan & gang laughed... Arjun got offended & took out a sword and challenged Karn in a duel. Bhisma intervened & decided Arjun have insulted their guest Anggraaj by raising weapon against him & he deserves a punishment. Karn decided (or Duryodhan? I don't remember exactly) he wanted Arjun to wash his feet & say sorry. To keep Bhisma's honour Arjun had to do it. Karn's typical smirk & Arjun's frustrated face....such a cringe it was🤢
OMG how could they show such kind of a scene!!!
And Karna was happy at it? I thought StarBharat Karna holier than thou, why did he like this??
By the way which episode is it??
Edit:: OK watched the episode. Arjun was playing Veena because Subhadra wanted it, Karna n Duryodhan enter and Duryodhan gifts an ornament as present to Arjun to humiliate him and asks Karna if he can play some instrument. Karna says that he would have considered this question an insult had someone else asked it since warriors have their music in the voice of the bow.
Bheem and Duryodhan has some banter post which Arjun taunts Karna. Shakuni stops Karna from reacting saying that he would not be able to defeat Pandavas in debate. They hint him to leave. Before leaving Karna says that Arjun should continue playing the instrument, and in fact also dance to please the lady.. Arjun then raises a sword on Karna, Duryodhan was trying to fight when Shakuni caught his hand while hinting at Bheeshm who just entered.
Shakuni turns the narrative as Arjun was attacking the king of an ally state without the permission of the king. He made it sound like Arjun was increasing the royal enemy state count
Dhritrashtra enters the scene as well and he is also presented the same narrative
Hence Dhritrashtra asks for forgiveness from Karna and he agrees. Then Duryodhan asks for a punishment to Arjun. Dhritrashtra says that such acts have only one punishment complete exile, but he wouldn't do that since Arjun is good brother's son and asks Vidur to decide(wasn't Arjun his brother's son as well)
Vidur suggests that they could let Arjun go if Karna forgives Arjun. To this Duryodhan suggests that Karna will definitely forgive Arjun if the latter asks for forgiveness after having washed his feet.
But Karna wasnt happy at it, he was feeling uncomfortable but Duryodhan hinted him to accept this.
On Duryodhan's instance he agreed for this arrangement. But he was uncomfortable throughout
Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.
Oh yes! Ashwatthama was there. Even Drona was there. Karn could have been thrashed if the chance occurred 😆
Nah Dron would have been happy if the war ended and Pandavas won, I am sure he wouldn't have problem with self goal. Kripacharya and Shalya too would have actually felt relaxed
Ashwathama is the only one I think who would have actually attacked Karna. He was anyhow not fond of Karna. They had violent fights multiple times, everytime poor Duryodhan had to intervene and stop them
Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.
Oh. Thank you for the citations😊 So Karna was a part of Bheem's poisoning. 🥱 God....such a pathetic guy he is. By then he was an adult & was planning a child's murder & encouraging another child to do it🤢
And your explanation seems quite plausible. Karna & Duryodhan could have met through Adhiratha.
Exactly that's why i feel Duryodhan was better than Karna, Duryodhan at least had some reasons to hate Pandavas, it was necessary for him to remove Pandavas from the equation to ensure a free ascend to the throne. Karna had none of these reasons
comment:
p_commentcount