Your thoughts on... Karn? - Page 9

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Posted: 4 years ago
#81

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

Actually that subhdra falling as sleep when arjun was explaining about chakravyuh is not mentioned anywhere in the epic. Surprising considering the fact that how famous this story is . But abhimanyu does talks about arjun teaching him how to enter chakravyuh. So i think it was part of his pre-war training. But nothing is mentioned about Krishna interrupting him so not sure about that . Maybe arjun never got the chance to complete this part of his training.


I don't know if Subhadra falling asleep part is mentioned anywhere, though it's quite famous story. Almost everyone has heard of it.


In KMG 's version, this Abhimanyu being Chandra Deva's son & him wishing for his son's return after 16 years is mentioned I guess. I just want to know if Krishna had played any part in helping this return, but can't find much reference on it other than online blogs.

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Posted: 4 years ago
#82

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

Corrected about what exactly ?? Because i would like to disagree with all your points

I stand corrected about the point that I thought you judged me as a misogynist.

You replied saying that it was my post that reeked of misogyny and that you didn't judge me as a person.

So, I accepted that probably my point was not really well made and somehow my post was misogynistic. I accepted my weak comprehension.


About my points on Karna, you can quote your points where you disagree and I can probably try to counter your points.

Agni_Jytsona thumbnail
Posted: 4 years ago
#83

Can anybody please give me the citation where vyasa refers arjuna as nara . Not the opening quote which starts with salutations to Narayana and nara. But within the text like how while explaining drapaud about drapaudi s previous birth boon he refers panchali as sree krishna as hari and arjun as shakra(indra).

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Posted: 4 years ago
#84

I’m probably really odd one considering the ones I love in epic are Karna, Arjun and Yudhi 😆. I do criticize the A LOT but lets discuss in their respective thread whenever made.

PS: I don’t consider Karna tragic at all but I get it why other’s do.😊

PPS: Its literally a thousand words draft but probably my last comment on all the said matter


PPPS: Something wrong with my keyboard it's joining words😕

Regarding Trafficking:


It was very Bitter conversation, agreed probably one of the most bitter by Karna. Both were insulting each other. Regarding Karna giving away wives the person who addressed that point agreed to it being hyperbole so the debate ended there IMO (Since Krisna made the same statement).

But slavery or trading of women were not really uncommon practices. Probably not even considered wrong.

.

Bhima gave a hundred of female slaves to visoka :

Bhima said, "Since, O Visoka, thou tellest me ofArjuna's arrival, I will give thee four and ten populous villages and a HUNDRED FEMALE SLAVES and twenty cars, being pleased with thee, O Suta, for this agreeable intelligence imparted by thee!"

Karna Parva: Section 76

2. Yudhistira gambled away hundred thousand women at dice game

Yudhishthira said,-'I have a hundred thousand serving-girls, all young, and decked with golden bracelets on their wrists and upper arms, and with nishkas round their necks and other ornaments, adorned with costly garlands and attired in rich robes, daubed with the sandal paste,wearing jewels and gold, and well-skilled in the four and sixty elegant arts,especially versed in dancing and singing, and who wait upon and serve at mycommand the celestials, the Snataka Brahmanas, and kings. With this wealth, Oking, I will stake with thee!'"


Yudhi other incidence:


Having beheld Yudhishthira's prosperity, whatever I enjoy brings me no gratification. The prosperity of Kunti's son that is possessed of such splendour maketh me pale. Knowing the affluence of the foe and my own destitution, even though that affluence is not before me, I yet see it before me. Therefore, have I lost colour and become melancholy, pale and emaciated. Yudhishthira supporteth eighty-eight thousand Snataka Brahmanas leading domestic lives, giving unto each of them thirty slave-girls. Beside this, thousand other Brahmanas daily eat at his palace the best of food on golden plates. The king of Kambhoja sent unto him (as tribute) innumerable skins, black, darkish, and red, of the deer Kadali, as also numberless blankets of excellent textures. And hundreds and thousands and thousands of she-elephants and thirty thousand she-camels wander within the palace, for the kings of the earth brought them all as tribute to the capital of the Pandavas. And, O lord of earth, the kings also brought unto this foremost of sacrifices heaps upon heaps of jewels and gems for the son of Kunti. Never before did I see or hear of such enormous wealth as was brought unto the sacrifice of the intelligent sons of Pandu. And, O king, beholding that enormous collection of wealth belonging to the foe, I can not enjoy peace of mind. Hundreds of Brahmanas supported by the grants that Yudhishthira hath given them and possessing wealth of kine, waited at the palace gate with three thousands of millions of tribute but were prevented by the keepers from entering the mansion. Bringing with them clarified butter in handsome Kamandalus made of gold, they did not obtain admission into the palace, and Ocean himself brought unto him in vessels of white copper the nectar that is generated within his waters and which is much superior to that which flowers and annual plants produce for Sakra. And Vasudeva (at the conclusion of the sacrifice) having brought an excellent conch bathed the Sun of Pritha with sea water brought in thousand jars of gold, all well adorned with numerous gems. Beholding all this I became feverish with jealousy. Those jars had been taken to the Eastern and the Southern oceans. And they had also been taken on the shoulders of men to the Western ocean, O bull among men. And, O father, although none but birds only can go to the Northern region Arjuna, having gone thither, exacted as tribute a vast quantity of wealth. There is another wonderful incident also which I will relate to thee. O listen to me. When a hundred thousand Brahmanas were fed, it had been arranged that to notify this act every day conches would be blown in a chorus. But, O Bharata, I continually heard conches blown there almost repeatedly. And hearing those notes my hair stood on end. And, O great king, that palatial compound, filled with innumerable monarchs that came there as spectators, looked exceedingly handsome like the cloudless firmament with stars. And, O king of men, the monarchs came into that sacrifice of the

Do I think it was wrong – Yes.

Do I hold it against Karna- Maybe I will but Dwarparyugis won’t. So either blame everyone including Krishna or don’t blame anyone.Holding it just against Karna is not fair.

2. Draupadi comment: No matter who says what he and everyone was wrong😡

3. Arjun vs Karna

Yes I have grown to love Arjun after I read the epic, but despite my love I don’t think he was or Karna was better to each other. They were equal IMO

Karna as a warrior

Even Krishna said Karna is invincible until he has weapons irrespective of his KK, that’s the reason he was killed when he was disarmed. Not because Arjuna had an upper hand. Even Draupadi’s swayamvar doesn’t prove anything. Karna retreated after Arjuna lied he was a brahmana. Karna isn’t superior to Arjuna or vice versa.

Karna & Drona:

Regarding Drupada war, he was same Karna who won him inhis Digvijay. CE does not mention Karna in Drupada war. Also Drona asked for gurudakshina from Ps& Ks. Karna was neither.

I don’t believe Karna learned under Drona as

  • · Karna was the only low born in Drona’s gurukul,why? Certainly not for his motives he had Arjuna for that and IMO Drona was no charity teacher.
  • · Karna was 16 years older to yudhi, Why did Adirath wait so long for Karna to join school. Did he wait for Drona to turn teacher to pandavas. Because there is no reference of Drona being teacher before he comes to HP
  • · Karna is only addressed as P’rama shishya not Drona's
  • Karna's KK were supposed to unique was he that forgettable that he was asked to introduce himself? So I believe Rangbhoomi is the first where Karna enters again Just MY deduction.

Was he considered Low born

Yes he was ridiculed for his birth, Yudhi called mixed birth people low born people, considering few believe so for most of characters then everyone was just hypocrite IMO.

"Yudhishthira said, 'There are men who belong to the mixed castes, and who are of very impure birth. Though presenting the features of respectability, they are in reality disrespectable. In consequence of these external aspects we may not be able to know the truth about their birth.

Reference - Shanti Parv, 13

Shalya's view

Filled with wrath, I can split the very Earth, scatterthe mountains, and dry up the oceans, with my own energy, O king. Knowing me, Omonarch, to be so capable, of afflicting the foe, why dost thou appoint me tothe office of driver in battle for such a low-born person as Adhiratha's son?

Agriculture and tending of cattle and gift are the occupations of the Vaishyas according to the scriptures. Shudras have beenordained to be the servants of the brahmanas, the kshatriyas, and the vaishyas. Similarly, the Sutas are the servants of kshatriyas, and not latter the servants of the former

Kunti's view

Endued with every virtue, thou art the first of all myrelations. Let not the epithet Suta's son attach to thee

Even Bhishma ridiculed him, but I’m considering him dueto the last convo.

Krishna Karna

Yes Krishna did not propose Drau to Karna in any form other than saying something on the lines The Ps that ridiculed you would keep you at highest.

I’m not stressing on that. It’s weird why people cannot accept different views than theirs and keep pressing when clearly theirs is a perspective too. No matter what

Abhimanyu vadh

Abhimanyu vadh was one of the most unfortunate incidences. There was an entire thread on discussion that and conclusion was Karna only did break his bow, fairly, I’ll try to find the link if anyone’s interested.Even the Sanskrit shloka was dissected there..

And One against many isn’t the only occurrence in case of Abhi. Bhishma, Karna and Ashwi were attacked too. So it was not exactly wrong judging by what’s going on there

Edited by Sanskruthi - 4 years ago
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Posted: 4 years ago
#85

Can we discuss karna without infamous jambu fruit, it was banned in this forum anyway.

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Posted: 4 years ago
#86

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark


Umm, Karna, as per KMG already knew his birth secret so Krishna could not have broken his strength or used it against him technically.

Citation below:


Karna said, 'Without doubt, O Kesava, thou hast said these words from thy love, affection, and friendship for me, as also in consequence of thy desire of doing me good, O thou of Vrishni's race. I know all that thou hast said unto me. Morally, I am the son of Pandu, as also in consequence of the injunctions of the scriptures, as thou, O Krishna, thinkest. My mother, while a maiden, bore me in her womb, O Janardana, through her connection with Surya. And at the command of Surya himself, she abandoned me as soon as I was born. Even thus, O Krishna, I came into the world.


@Bold part - He didn't react much because he was already aware (I don't know how though, have been looking for it and if I come up with something I would share).


Karna's target since the beginning was Arjun and he wanted to prove himself better than him and kill him. He has said it several times. It was since childhood (Drona's gurukul) that he had such intentions. So, he would anyway not be interested in killing YBNS. His rivalry was personal.

He was not exactly fighting the war to support Duryodhan but in works of Shakespeare, "to feed fat the ancient grudge that he bore" 😆


Brishti dii is that you?😃 I'm sanskruti went by sansi, sans by many here, remember me? if you don't its fine😆


BTW even I think Krishna wasn't first to tell Karna but before him nobody is mentioned

About K vs A don't wanna do that😆 didn't we do that enough?

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Posted: 4 years ago
#87

Excuse its a humble to request to karna fans to stop dragging drapaudi to justify your favourite deeds please trafficking seriously ???? Bullshit absolutely bullshit. What pandava and panchali had is called marriage marriage for heavy sake stop demeaning thay relationship by calling it a trafficking and no drapaudi was not arjuna s wife drapaudi first was married to yudhishtra and then the rest I am sure there are various other way to glorify the oh so good karna no need to drag drapaudi and Krish into the mess


The point being simple that they were MARRIED MARRIED for f*ck sake stop reducing it something so vile.

Edited by Poorabhforever - 4 years ago
Sanskruthi thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago
#88

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

Excuse its a humble to request to karna fans to stop dragging drapaudi to justify your favourite deeds please trafficking seriously ???? Bullshit absolutely bullshit. What pandava and panchali had is called marriage marriage for heavy sake stop demeaning thay relationship by calling it a trafficking and no drapaudi was not arjuna s wife drapaudi first was married to yudhishtra and then the rest I am sure there are various other way to glorify the oh so good karna no need to drag drapaudi and Krish into the mess


The point being simple that they were MARRIED MARRIED for f*ck sake stop reducing it something so vile.


See I'm sorry for offending you, I edited my comment. She was married yes but what I'm saying is human slavery was not uncommon. About Drau I was refering to VH since it was brought up.

I'm not sorry for Krishna though he did make that statement either blame all or none

Agni_Jytsona thumbnail
Posted: 4 years ago
#89

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi


See I'm sorry for offending you, I edited my comment. She was married yes but what I'm saying is human slavery was not uncommon. About Drau I was refering to VH since it was brought up.

I'm not sorry for Krishna though he did make that statement either blame all or none

Seriously you quoted a sequence from drapaudi s Swamyvaar and later of potter house incident to show that arjun did human trafficking of his wife


Stop justifying it please. Stop justifying.

And Krishna also made another statement a promise rather to panchali that Karna will be dead so that sums it up for me what he actually wanted.

Edited by Poorabhforever - 4 years ago
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Posted: 4 years ago
#90

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

Seriously you quoted a sequence from drapaudi s Swamyvaar and later of potter house incident to show that arjun did human trafficking of his wife


Stop justifying it please. Stop justifying.

And Krishna also made another statement a promise rather to panchali that Karna will be dead so that sums it up for me what he actually wanted.


I was wrong there I'm not justifying that..

Edited by Sanskruthi - 4 years ago
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