Your thoughts on... Karn? - Page 16

Karan was glorified? By whom?

He was always insulted. Kunti left him, Pandavas made fun of him being soot putra, Draupadi insulted him during swayamvar, Drona refused to teach him, Kunti didn't accept him as her elder son. He learnt shanur vidya on his own. His parents also left him.

It was only Duryodhan who offered him friendship & didn't insult him. He gave up dharma for loyalty towards his friend.

If Krishna had not supported Arjun he would not have been able to defeat karan on his own. Arjun was never the best. Eklavya & Karan were better than him.

Originally posted by: Ranjali

Karan was glorified? By whom?

He was always insulted. Kunti left him, Pandavas made fun of him being soot putra, Draupadi insulted him during swayamvar, Drona refused to teach him, Kunti didn't accept him as her elder son. He learnt shanur vidya on his own. His parents also left him.

It was only Duryodhan who offered him friendship & didn't insult him. He gave up dharma for loyalty towards his friend.

If Krishna had not supported Arjun he would not have been able to defeat karan on his own. Arjun was never the best. Eklavya & Karan were better than him.

This is exactly what the glorification & whitewashing of Karn by these tv serials have done to viewers😆 You are talking about tv serials' or modern literature's Karn, not Mahabharat's Karn.

@ Bold : These things never happened in Mahabharata. Draupadi never insulted him (in fact, it's hinted at that Karn was unsuccessful in the task). Pandavas never insulted him until he became Duryodhan's ally. Neither he learnt archery on his own. Unlike how it's portrayed in these television adaptations, Karna was very much Drona's student & learnt archery from him. It's only when Drona decided to teach the celestial weapons only to Arjun, Karn took it as favouritism & went on to learn them from Parasuram. By lying that he is a Brahmin.

@Underlined : It's debatable. We don't know whether Eklavya would have been a greater archer because we never got to see him as a fully trained grown up Warrior. Maybe he could be. Who knows? But there's no way that Karn was better than Arjun. In Mahabharat, there are 3 incidents which tells otherwise. Arjun did fight Karn before Kurukshetra too & Arjun was the winner in all those duels. Twice Karn had to flee because Arjun had injured him severely & had cut the string of his bow. In fact, how great Karn was as an warrior you can judge by how he killed Abhimanyu. Abhimanyu defeated him thrice in Kurukshetra & he couldn't defeat Abhimanyu one on one & hence carried on the joint attack & killed him through trickery. Arjun may not be the best warrior ( I personally think Bhisma was better than him & Abhimanyu had the potential of being better than him, if he wasn't killed), but he in no way was inferior to Karn. Karn was a formidable warrior, but not better than Arjun.

At least that's how Karn was in Mahabharat. If you wish to discuss the whitewashed & glorified Karn from these tv serials, that's different things 😆😆 In that case, I wouldn't argue with you. Television ka Karn is something else altogether I know 😆

Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.

This is exactly what the glorification & whitewashing of Karn by these tv serials have done to viewers😆 You are talking about tv serials' or modern literature's Karn, not Mahabharat's Karn.

@ Bold : These things never happened in Mahabharata. Draupadi never insulted him (in fact, it's hinted at that Karn was unsuccessful in the task). Pandavas never insulted him until he became Duryodhan's ally. Neither he learnt archery on his own. Unlike how it's portrayed in these television adaptations, Karna was very much Drona's student & learnt archery from him. It's only when Drona decided to teach the celestial weapons only to Arjun, Karn took it as favouritism & went on to learn them from Parasuram. By lying that he is a Brahmin.

@Underlined : It's debatable. We don't know whether Eklavya would have been a greater archer because we never got to see him as a fully trained grown up Warrior. Maybe he could be. Who knows? But there's no way that Karn was better than Arjun. In Mahabharat, there are 3 incidents which tells otherwise. Arjun did fight Karn before Kurukshetra too & Arjun was the winner in all those duels. Twice Karn had to flee because Arjun had injured him severely & had cut the string of his bow. In fact, how great Karn was as an warrior you can judge by how he killed Abhimanyu. Abhimanyu defeated him thrice in Kurukshetra & he couldn't defeat Abhimanyu one on one & hence carried on the joint attack & killed him through trickery. Arjun may not be the best warrior ( I personally think Bhisma was better than him & Abhimanyu had the potential of being better than him, if he wasn't killed), but he in no way was inferior to Karn. Karn was a formidable warrior, but not better than Arjun.

At least that's how Karn was in Mahabharat. If you wish to discuss the whitewashed & glorified Karn from these tv serials, that's different things 😆😆 In that case, I wouldn't argue with you. Television ka Karn is something else altogether I know 😆

Besides Tv show I have read devdutt Patnaik's Jaya. Unlike Ramayan I never developed much liking for mahabharat characters. I find them all selfish & egoistic.

Originally posted by: Ranjali

Karan was glorified? By whom?

He was always insulted. Kunti left him, Pandavas made fun of him being soot putra, Draupadi insulted him during swayamvar, Drona refused to teach him, Kunti didn't accept him as her elder son. He learnt shanur vidya on his own. His parents also left him.

It was only Duryodhan who offered him friendship & didn't insult him. He gave up dharma for loyalty towards his friend.

If Krishna had not supported Arjun he would not have been able to defeat karan on his own. Arjun was never the best. Eklavya & Karan were better than him.

😆. None of this happened. He was very much drona s student. He had a great parents who never left him. Drapaudi did not insult him that is later interpolation

And also arjuna defeated karna in virat war without krishna.

Originally posted by: Ranjali

Karan was glorified? By whom?

He was always insulted. Kunti left him, Pandavas made fun of him being soot putra, Draupadi insulted him during swayamvar, Drona refused to teach him, Kunti didn't accept him as her elder son. He learnt shanur vidya on his own. His parents also left him.

It was only Duryodhan who offered him friendship & didn't insult him. He gave up dharma for loyalty towards his friend.

If Krishna had not supported Arjun he would not have been able to defeat karan on his own. Arjun was never the best. Eklavya & Karan were better than him.

If you believe that these things happened then my friend that is the precise reason why he was glorified

Actually Pandavas or Draupadi never mocked him

Drona did teach him the basics only he refused to teach him the advanced level of archery, he didn't learn the advance archery on his own but by lying to Parashuram hi.

Kunti didn't accept him agreed but I doubt many unwed mothers would and then he did find a lovable family, so not much of a problem

Arjun had defeated Karna many times before the Mahabharata war, these statements that without Krishna's help, Arjuna would have lost find no base in the epic

Originally posted by: Ranjali

Besides Tv show I have read devdutt Patnaik's Jaya. Unlike Ramayan I never developed much liking for mahabharat characters. I find them all selfish & egoistic.

Jaya includes lots of folklores and personal biases. It is no better than the TV shows.

Originally posted by: Ranjali

Besides Tv show I have read devdutt Patnaik's Jaya. Unlike Ramayan I never developed much liking for mahabharat characters. I find them all selfish & egoistic.

Modern literature & tv adaptations have whitewashed & glorified Karn a lot because that's what sells. 😆 We love heroes who rise from the dust with his struggle & mettle & Karn has been modified tremendously to fit in this character sketch. I personally believe Karn had more comfortable life than the Pandavas. Yes, Kunti left him, but his adopting parents were way better to him than what Kunti alone could be. He grew up in middle class environment with loving parents. Where as Pandavas lived in forest in childhood & after their father's death, even though returned to Hastinapur, but was never accepted by Duryodhan gang. I wouldn't call it a comfortable life. Karn had better life than them. The only problem was that under Drona's tutelage, Drona touted Arjun as his best student & this gave birth of jealousy / envy in Karn's mind. And sadly, this jealousy was what became the deciding factor in Karn's life. And now modern literature & television soaps spin the story to suit their narrative that Karn was some tormented poor fellow

As for Ramayana vs Mahabharat, yeah. Ramayan is simpler 😆 Everything is quite black & white there. You are either good or bad. Mahabharat is complex & so are its characters. As a human, I find Mahabharat's characters more relatable as no one is flawless here. Everyone has a few flaws or more......even the good guys hesitate to oppose wrong deeds sometimes & sometimes even support some apparent bad deed for the greater good. That makes them interesting & more relatable to me. Ramayan's good characters are almost totally flawless....that's not very relatable.😆

^^ Satyug principles can’t be applied today, people will take advantage and you will be left with nothing. The teachings and lessons of Mahabharata are relatable.

Originally posted by: attiya1.3

As a non Hindu whose perception can be built by tv shows, popular books and vision of directors, I am inclined towards Karn and that must be feeling if every individual who have not read real scripture. We cannot have real insights about other religion facts so I rely on somebody else vision. If I go by director's vision, yes they made Karn glorify in front of Arjun. We all know that we chose pandwas in front of dushasan gang but, one is in confusion when it comes to Karn vs Arjun.

His many antics were at fault be it with draupadi, be it his anger towards society or his mother but, it was all defended with what happened to him as a child. And on that basis, if draupadi was justified belittling him than ,he was justified as well in Sabah as both were human reactions. Either both can be wrong or both can be justified. Yes, we are sensitive over women's honour but,can't ignore the insults of a man as well.

As an interest, I read books on mahabharat but, I felt that all authors have same feelings for Karn as throne belong to him. I can't understand the real version but, as an outsider , the shows, popular books and opinion of people have made me a Karn fan as it was a grey character, with his flaws, confusions, pain and decisions.

If you just talk about StarBharat and consider it to be a fanfic account of the epic, your perspective matters.

But as per the epic that isn't how it goes..

Secondly in no way you could consider a demeaning comment equal to the order of disrobe of the woman

Rest I think the books you read are mostly the ones written from Karna's perspective because in no manner could he get the throne

Originally posted by: attiya1.3

You are quite rude to Karn😅😂

But one cannot ignore his positive traits.

+ One cannot ignore extra efforts of Arjun guru to make him superior. We cannot ignore ek lavya, ignoring Karn...point is not who is best .point is who struggled to get there and who got things easily.

Secondly, I don't know about his betrayal. Can you brief me?

About Krishna...we cannot interpret it.

Btw.. he was eldest na...so if things got in right way, he would have been rightly for throne?

He had positive traits even Duryodhan had a few, that doesn't make him acceptable.

Arjun was the best student in the Gurukul, so he was taught Archery of the highest order which no one else got, it wasn't like he was very cute and hence Dron started liking him. Eklavya wasn't his student but someone who learnt from him while having hidden, you do punish such students

Karna was born before marriage of Kunti and without the knowledge of her husband. He wouldn't wouldn't have been eligible for the throne