Your thoughts on... Karn? - Page 15

Originally posted by: attiya1.3

You are quite rude to Karn😅😂

But one cannot ignore his positive traits.

+ One cannot ignore extra efforts of Arjun guru to make him superior. We cannot ignore ek lavya, ignoring Karn...point is not who is best .point is who struggled to get there and who got things easily.

Secondly, I don't know about his betrayal. Can you brief me?

About Krishna...we cannot interpret it.

Btw.. he was eldest na...so if things got in right way, he would have been rightly for throne?

The lineage is patrilineal. It doesn't matter if the Queen has an elder son. He wasn't a son from the Kuru dynasty. So weren't the Pandavas, but they were born after marriage and hence considered Pandu's sons. Karn could in no way be the king of Hastinapur.

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

I am not i just see him as he was. And not what popular television potrayal makes him to be

look around you will find all these characters around you they are that real. .

And no Karna never struggled for knowledge that it s a myth. He was very much drona s student.

About betrayal i see it that way you may not. So you should read that up.

He was kunti s eldest who she gave up and was officially adopted by a adhirath so he can only inherit what his adopted father would have left for him and not the kuru throne

And krishna only wanted to manipulate him

I don't know what to read ....that's why I ask

If a parent gave up you and you are adopted by someone else, than you are not entitled for that throne? I guess that's what defines Karn behaviour than!

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

The lineage is patrilineal. It doesn't matter if the Queen has an elder son. He wasn't a son from the Kuru dynasty. So weren't the Pandavas, but they were born after marriage and hence considered Pandu's sons. Karn could in no way be the king of Hastinapur.

Karn was some God gift na...

So he was from dynasty ?

@Attiya : Adoptions rules were pretty strict back in those days too. Kunti gave Karn up. By this not only Kunti gave up her rights on Karn but Karn also had no rights on her the moment Adhirath & his wife adopted him. FRom that moment on, legally, he was Adhirath's son & he could "inherit" properties that Adhirath had, not what Kunti had.

Now let's talk about his birth. Neither Karn, nor the Pandavas were Pandu's biological childre. BUT! Karn was born BEFORE Kunti was married to Pandu. Hence Pandu had no say in his birth & Pandu never acknowledged Karn as his son. Where as Pandavas were born with Pandu's agreement & till the day Pandu died, Pandu acknowledged them as his sons. That's why Pandavas are Pandu's sons, but Karn is not. And if Karn was not Pandu's son, there's no question of him inheriting the throne. Please note, the Hastinapur throne was Pandu's right, not Kunti's.

I just want to clarify one point, Arjun just wasn’t born a favourite for Dhrona, he became one.

Dronacharya had political loyalties and hence the Eklavya issue. Also, Drona always wanted to teach his own son and no one else. He gave others more work so that he has more time to teach his son. Arjun but had thirst to learn more and more. Like, while doing things like filling water, he would notice the one that had the biggest mouth to save time! Even the Dharmic Yudhishthir couldn’t beat him in gaining knowledge. His samarpan towards his guru is unbeatable. Imagine, a student jumping to save your life while your own son watches. Karna lied to Lord Parshuram, who was part avtar of Lord Vishnu! Whatever you gain by deceiving will deceive you in the end !

He had qualities that made people favour him over others.

Read Vidur Niti, which is conversation between Dhitrastra and Vidur during Mahabharat. Vidur is talking about dharma. He criticises Karn to no end and he’s being called Adarmi in the text.😆

Also, Karn fought against knowing Arjun was his brother. The Pandavas would have never fought against him if they knew. That’s why Lord Krishna never told them, especially Arjun who was such a softie 😆

Originally posted by: attiya1.3

Karn was some God gift na...

So he was from dynasty ?

He was not born after marriage. He was not a part of the Kuru dynasty. Children born to Kunti AFTER marriage via Niyog/Vardaan or blessing or normal pregnancy is whom we consider to be a part of the Kuru dynasty. Karna was in no way in line for King at least in the Kuru Dynasty.

Originally posted by: Autumn_Rose

I just want to clarify one point, Arjun just wasn’t born a favourite for Dhrona, he became one.

Dronacharya had political loyalties and hence the Eklavya issue. Also, Drona always wanted to teach his own son and no one else. He gave others more work so that he has more time to teach his son. Arjun but had thirst to learn more and more. Like, while doing things like filling water, he would notice the one that had the biggest mouth to save time! Even the Dharmic Yudhishthir couldn’t beat him in gaining knowledge. His samarpan towards his guru is unbeatable. Imagine, a student jumping to save your life while your own son watches. Karna lied to Lord Parshuram, who was part avtar of Lord Vishnu! Whatever you gain by deceiving will deceive you in the end !

He had qualities that made people favour him over others.

Read Vidur Niti, which is conversation between Dhitrastra and Vidur during Mahabharat. Vidur is talking about dharma. He criticises Karn to no end and he’s being called Adarmi in the text.😆

Great post! I am not a huge fan of Drona but this favouritism towards Arjun is blown out of proportion against him. There is no reason to think he didn't provide other students enough attention. Besides, Arjun's forte was archery and that was what was focused on for him. Also, he learnt alot of things himself. I don't see why a good student won't get more appreciation. Arjun was a good student, as simple as that.

The story of Eklavya and Drona has been taught to us as little children to show samarpan to Guru.

Ekalavya was a prince of Nishada kingdom, an ally to Jasarandha. An enemy of Hastinapur.. teaching eklavya would have betrayed hastinapur who had given him shelter. Dhrona wasn’t the kind of teacher who wouldn’t teach anyone due to personal likes and dislikes. He taught Dhrishtdhyum knowing he would be later killed by him. Also note that Eklavya wasn’t a weak person he was powerful and would have been a threat to the kurus. It’s interesting to note that he had closed a dog’s mouth just because he was barking at him.. doesn’t seem very kind.

He was later killed by Lord Krishna.

It’s always interpreted as Drona’s promise to Arjun which is not right in my opinion. He knew his politics well.

Eklavya's story can be interpreted in many ways imo. First of all the political part... Drona was Hastinapur's employee....he couldn't teach an enemy country's prince. He is not teaching just history or literature, he is teaching "Yuddha Vidya". It will be like Indian Army Captain revealing all the secrets to a Pakistan's soldier (I used India Pakistan just as example. Please don't take it any other way). Drona certainly couldn't have done that.

And....there's this thing that Drona did not teach Eklavya anything on his own volition. Drona did not want to teach Eklavya. Eklavya was sneaking up on his classes & was listening from hiding. This can very well be seen as stealing and severe breach of privacy. DRona could very well be punishing Eklavya for this stealing.

As for Arjun being Drona's favourite....yes he was. And he was so because he earned it with his dedication & learning capabilities. Let's not forget that Drona didn't teach just Arjun. He taught 100 Kauravas, plus the 5 pandavas plus few others, among all these, if Arjun won him over, it can't be just favouritism. If favouritism was what all of it was, why none of Kauravas could earn this favouritism? Arjun certainly had proved his mettle to be his Guru's favourite. I see it like how a class teacher favours the 1st boy in his class than rest.
And as for teaching the Divya astras to only Arjun, well he was the top student. Top students get scholarships & rewards which mediocres don't. It is not favouritism.