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Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.
In Mahabharat, ALL the characters had served one purpose or other. Everyone played a part in unfolding the story as it did. Subhadra did serve the purpose you said, but along with it, she was Arjun's favourite wife too. And Arjun did marry her because he loved her. Krishna supported it seeing the future benefits, but Arjun was very much romantically interested in her & it wasn't just a convenient political alliance.
@Bold Well.... I think it's subjective, from my pov, Arjun definitely is an upgradation. Duryodhan was not heir. He was just the 1st child of Dhritarstra. The real heir to Hastinapur's throne was Yudhistir. That's the reason Shakuni & Duryodhan had to resort to trickery & crimes in order to make Duryodhan the heir. And being Krishna's sister, I doubt Subhdra would have liked this side of Duryodhan. Arjun is not only more righteous, but more famous & is considered to be Aryavart's greatest warrior of that time. Arjun did not need a throne to be respected & neither he was interested in one to lose his sleep over it. Maybe back in those days, materialistic comfort was given more consideration, but from my pov Arjun was way better a man than Duryodhan was. And well...he was a prince too, so it's not like there was any shortage of materialistic comfort. I will count Arjun as a promotion only, considering all sides.
Agree with you Arjuna was an upgrade but disagree re: fav wife, etc.
In case of both Panchali and Subhadra, Arjuna is said to have been attracted. Arjuna-Panchali marriage was Vyasa's idea, and Arjuna-Subhadra marriage was Krishna's idea. Nowhere is love mentioned or favorite wife. Vyasa never refrained from mentioning favorites, and he never said anything about either woman being Arjuna's favorite.
Ulupi wanted Arjuna, but he doesn't acknowledge her until much later. He made an effort to visit Chitrangada, but she was the one who declined to return with him.
Arjuna was as much a political animal as any of the rest. If there was a love in his life, it seems to have been his family.
Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.
In Mahabharat, ALL the characters had served one purpose or other. Everyone played a part in unfolding the story as it did. Subhadra did serve the purpose you said, but along with it, she was Arjun's favourite wife too. And Arjun did marry her because he loved her. Krishna supported it seeing the future benefits, but Arjun was very much romantically interested in her & it wasn't just a convenient political alliance.
@Bold Well.... I think it's subjective, from my pov, Arjun definitely is an upgradation. Duryodhan was not heir. He was just the 1st child of Dhritarstra. The real heir to Hastinapur's throne was Yudhistir. That's the reason Shakuni & Duryodhan had to resort to trickery & crimes in order to make Duryodhan the heir. And being Krishna's sister, I doubt Subhdra would have liked this side of Duryodhan. Arjun is not only more righteous, but more famous & is considered to be Aryavart's greatest warrior of that time. Arjun did not need a throne to be respected & neither he was interested in one to lose his sleep over it. Maybe back in those days, materialistic comfort was given more consideration, but from my pov Arjun was way better a man than Duryodhan was. And well...he was a prince too, so it's not like there was any shortage of materialistic comfort. I will count Arjun as a promotion only, considering all sides.
Can you elaborate on Subhadra being Arjun's favorite wife? Is it just an opinion or he said it?
The real heir is very tricky, King's eldest son being the next King is how it works from my understanding and if you follow the pattern of British Monarchy. Queen's eldest son Prince Charles is next in the line, It will Be Prince William after Prince Charles, Charles has two other brothers, I am not sure if they have kids but I don't think they can sit on the Throne.
Duryodhana was right in asking for the Kingdom so was Yudhishtira but Duryodhana resorted to treachery which led to his downfall.
When Arjun married Subhadra, Duryodhana was crown prince and heir of his father while Yudhishtira was King. I was comparing Arjun and Duryodhana's status because Subhadra, obviously didn't know about their ethical and moral standards. Now, it's not like Arjun and his brothers were best of husbands considering the whole gambling fiasco and Draupadi's humiliation, I won't say he was righteous and his warrior thing didn't work out well for his wife, maybe he didn't stand up for her because she wasn't his favorite and things would have been different for Subhadra.
MahanalayakKarn 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I tried to change my username,but site is not letting me. I would like my actual name (Priyamvada), but no idea how to change it.
Originally posted by: MahanalayakKarn
Agree with you Arjuna was an upgrade but disagree re: fav wife, etc.
In case of both Panchali and Subhadra, Arjuna is said to have been attracted. Arjuna-Panchali marriage was Vyasa's idea, and Arjuna-Subhadra marriage was Krishna's idea. Nowhere is love mentioned or favorite wife. Vyasa never refrained from mentioning favorites, and he never said anything about either woman being Arjuna's favorite.
Ulupi wanted Arjuna, but he doesn't acknowledge her until much later. He made an effort to visit Chitrangada, but she was the one who declined to return with him.
Arjuna was as much a political animal as any of the rest. If there was a love in his life, it seems to have been his family.
I second this.
Arjun spent most of his youth wandering, he was exiled for 25 years of his life, Then he also spent years to bring weapons for the war (Was it a part of one of his exiles?). I mean he really wasn't someone who had something holding him back to his home
Originally posted by: MahanalayakKarn
I tried to change my username,but site is not letting me. I would like my actual name (Priyamvada), but no idea how to change it.
I like this one, Priyamvada 🤗🤗
I think you can change it one time
Originally posted by: MahanalayakKarn
Vyasa met Pandavas twice after burning attempt. Once to ask them to go to Ekchara. 2nd time to go and tell them to win Panchali.
Neither Yudhishtira's hormones nor Kunti's planning had anything to do with polyandry. It was VYASA'S idea.
All 5 brothers are said to be heavily attracted at the swayamvar. Attraction isn't a sin. Plus, they'd already decided on winning her. So where's the problem in being attracted?
The drama put on by mother and sons was likely for Panchali's benefit. Yes, Arjuna knew fully well what was going on.
Moreover, when Drupad objects, it is again Vyasa who talks the king into agreeing, not Yudhishtira. I have my issues with the eldest Pandava, but polyandry cannot be blamed on him.
FYI. When Vyasa talks to Drupad, he actually says Indra (who became Arjuna) met Sri (who became Panchali) before.
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01200.htm
If you believe in avatars, Arjuna Panchali never met. If you don't believe in avatars, the couple who met WAS actually Arjuna Panchali. There was no romance then, either. She is said to have been crying. We are not told what about. She basically uses her weeping to lure him to Mahadev who then orders her to basically shove Arjuna into a cave. So yeah, Star was right in a way.
I don't much believe in divine aspect/reincarnation/previous birth theories.
At swayamvara? No....
The story goes like this, contest opens for Brahmins, since it's archery Arjuna wins the girl. They take her to their momma and she asks them to share whatever they got.
She gets shocked since they got Draupadi suddenly afraid her words will become untrue. Since they cannot actually share a woman
Yudhi senses goddess of desire hitting Ps and declares drau to be a common wife
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It was after kunti's "share your alms" they saw Draupadi in different light IMO and it was by observing them yudi then said she'd be the common wife,
I'm not saying they were not attracted towards her during swayamvara but she was won by their brother and they respected it until they saw the chance they could have her.
So yeah for the unity of brothers both ku-Yu convinced Drupad and son after which Vyasa came to add the final stamp (thus manipulated the scene)
^^^ this is how I meant it. I did not say YBNS getting attracted to Drau was wrong but her sharing definitely was wrong. Poor girl was quiet throughout nobody asked her opinion probably all those circumstances built her character which we all admire now.
PS- I don't believe that kunti knew they got Draupadi as alms and it was a calculative move on her part.
Can you give citation where Vyasa asks yudhi to make drau a common wife before yudhi's declaration that Draupadi's would be the common wife? 😕 I'd have read again but I'm too lazy to go through those bulls and horses plus I'm sleepy🥱
Originally posted by: Sanskruthi
I don't much believe in divine aspect/reincarnation/previous birth theories.
At swayamvara? No....
The story goes like this, contest opens for Brahmins, since it's archery Arjuna wins the girl. They take her to their momma and she asks them to share whatever they got.
She gets shocked since they got Draupadi suddenly afraid her words will become untrue. Since they cannot actually share a woman
Yudhi senses goddess of desire hitting Ps and declares drau to be a common wife
----------
It was after kunti's "share your alms" they saw Draupadi in different light IMO and it was by observing them yudi then said she'd be the common wife,
I'm not saying they were not attracted towards her during swayamvara but she was won by their brother and they respected it until they saw the chance they could have her.
So yeah for the unity of brothers both ku-Yu convinced Drupad and son after which Vyasa came to add the final stamp (thus manipulated the scene)
^^^ this is how I meant it. I did not say YBNS getting attracted to Drau was wrong but her sharing definitely was wrong. Poor girl was quiet throughout nobody asked her opinion probably all those circumstances built her character which we all admire now.
Can you give citation where Vyasa asks yudhi to make drau a common wife before yudhi's declaration that Draupadi's would be the common wife? 😕 I'd have read again but I'm too lazy to go through those bulls and horses plus I'm sleepy🥱
Vyasa goes to Pandavas BEFORE swayamvar TWICE. The 2nd time is when he talks about polyandry.
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01159.htm
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01172.htm
All of them, Kunti and the Pandavas, knew what was supposed to happen. It wasn't because of Yudhshtira's lust or Kunti's words. ARJUNA knew fully well what was supposed to happen. They were under orders from Vyasa. If that scene at potter's hut about sharing alms is not an interpolation, it was a deliberate drama put on by mother and sons.
Afterward, Vyasa tells Drupada that Sri had already met Shakra before swayamvara.
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01200.htm
Since I don't go by avatars, I take this to be Arjuna Panchali. So yeah, she, too, knew exactly what would happen. I really don't see what is so pitiable about her since she went into the arrangement with eyes open.
Krishna also knew since Hari is mentioned.
The only ones who needed convincing were Drupada and Dhrishtadyumna.
It is so strange how Vyasa's part in all this gets ignored. Most of the major plot points were his idea - Panchalii/Pandava, khandavadahana, making Yudhishtira swear he would maintain calm with Suyodhana (which then led to dice hall events), Arjuna's trip to Indra to collect weapons for war, persuading Yudhishtira to stay on as king after war, ashwamedha... etc. etc. Narada was the one who worked on Yudhishtira's insecurities, but I can't imagine the devarshi did so without express permission from Vyasa.
Originally posted by: HearMeRoar
Vyasa goes to Pandavas BEFORE swayamvar TWICE. The 2nd time is when he talks about polyandry.
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01159.htm
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01172.htm
All of them, Kunti and the Pandavas, knew what was supposed to happen. It wasn't because of Yudhshtira's lust or Kunti's words. ARJUNA knew fully well what was supposed to happen. They were under orders from Vyasa. If that scene at potter's hut about sharing alms is not an interpolation, it was a deliberate drama put on by mother and sons.
Afterward, Vyasa tells Drupada that Sri had already met Shakra before swayamvara.
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01200.htm
Since I don't go by avatars, I take this to be Arjuna Panchali. So yeah, she, too, knew exactly what would happen. I really don't see what is so pitiable about her since she went into the arrangement with eyes open.
Krishna also knew since Hari is mentioned.
The only ones who needed convincing were Drupada and Dhrishtadyumna.
It is so strange how Vyasa's part in all this gets ignored. Most of the major plot points were his idea - Panchalii/Pandava, khandavadahana, making Yudhishtira swear he would maintain calm with Suyodhana (which then led to dice hall events), Arjuna's trip to Indra to collect weapons for war, persuading Yudhishtira to stay on as king after war, ashwamedha... etc. etc. Narada was the one who worked on Yudhishtira's insecurities, but I can't imagine the devarshi did so without express permission from Vyasa.
Exactly it was well thought of political alliance where both the parties pandava and panchali + krishna had their own role to play. This explains why drapaudi was silent during the potter house thing. Because otherwise for someone like drapaudi to remain silent is bit indigestible i think both sri and narayan or panchali and govind (sorry couldn't help) were aware that potter house scene is just an act but i don't pandavas knew that entire Swamyvaar set up was to seek them out
Plus as i have said earlier as long as long as there was enough love and respect in their marriage polyandrous is not wrong
Originally posted by: HearMeRoar
Vyasa goes to Pandavas BEFORE swayamvar TWICE. The 2nd time is when he talks about polyandry.
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01159.htm
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01172.htm
All of them, Kunti and the Pandavas, knew what was supposed to happen. It wasn't because of Yudhshtira's lust or Kunti's words. ARJUNA knew fully well what was supposed to happen. They were under orders from Vyasa. If that scene at potter's hut about sharing alms is not an interpolation, it was a deliberate drama put on by mother and sons.
Afterward, Vyasa tells Drupada that Sri had already met Shakra before swayamvara.
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01200.htm
Since I don't go by avatars, I take this to be Arjuna Panchali. So yeah, she, too, knew exactly what would happen. I really don't see what is so pitiable about her since she went into the arrangement with eyes open.
Krishna also knew since Hari is mentioned.
The only ones who needed convincing were Drupada and Dhrishtadyumna.
It is so strange how Vyasa's part in all this gets ignored. Most of the major plot points were his idea - Panchalii/Pandava, khandavadahana, making Yudhishtira swear he would maintain calm with Suyodhana (which then led to dice hall events), Arjuna's trip to Indra to collect weapons for war, persuading Yudhishtira to stay on as king after war, ashwamedha... etc. etc. Narada was the one who worked on Yudhishtira's insecurities, but I can't imagine the devarshi did so without express permission from Vyasa.
I know Vyasa visiting the PS but the scene did not have drau thus it was manipulated. I wrote it totally in context of Draupadi's knowledge then considering Vyasa did not have a secret meeting with her which he forgot to mention.
@B- for Draupadi?
Anyways exactly why I said ku-yu manipulated the scene for Drau, why not tell her the birth story on their way home?
Yu because he did the declaration part. And yes I do believe that polyandry was not solely brainchild of Vyasa something like "because it had to be done" there were human emotions involved too. They may not be the primary reasons but they were reasons nonetheless
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