Originally posted by: proteeti
Nope Abhi's wife Uttara was a Matsya princess (however, her ancestor King Matsya was the twin brother of Satyavathi). But wouldn't it be soo neat if he had married a Yadava?!
It is said he did this because the ancient King Yayati had disowned his eldest son Yadu and made his yougest son Puru the King of the Kuru clan.
Krushna as a King was exceptional, it seems
Originally posted by: CaptainSpark
Krishna supported the Pandavas. Arjun was closest to him and also the recipent of the Geeta hence he is considered to be one of the players. Arjun is not the only main character out here, so I don't understand why he will be the only player.
Your question was- Why did he not protect her? I simply answered that question. Your replies seem like you are thinking I am justifying what he did while I said at least twice or more that I am not? He was wrong is an established fact. What exactly is unreasonable in what I said? Arjun was wrong in Dyut Sabha, so was all the other Pandavas. He obviously would not do anything that would wage war and he did not do anything against the orders of his elder brother. That was Dharma then according to him. These are facts. Why are u considering this as justification of his acts and thinking i am justifying and supporting Arjun?
I said, Arjun was "Key" player, The MVP of Mahabharata, Krushna was Lord himself, he is not a player but a moderator according to the story, The fact that Krushna was with Arjun makes him the MVP, if I remember correctly then Bheema had expressed how helpless they are without Arjuna, moreover I didn't say "He is the only player"
You said that Arjun didn't care about Draupadi and he didn't go to swayamvar with his will. Arjun wasn't someone who would let a man insult a woman because he didn't 'care' about her, people protect strangers then Draupadi was in every part of his life, she shared every relationship with him that a woman shares with a man except his mother, grandmother and daughter, Draupadi was his wife, his friend, mother of his child, his bhabhi, his bahu and most importantly she is his queen, I didn't debate whether he cared for her or not because I would care for a dog who has been living with me for one month.
That was just his relationship with her, Arjun was a Kshatriya, Kshatriya Dharma compels them to protect everyone, so 'Arjun didn't care about Draupadi' is just bizarre
His character is way more complex than this, one dimensional 'I don't like her so go have your way with her, even though she is my wife'
I never thought you were justifying Arjun, I just said that the reason you gave is too one dimensional and robotic
Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.
On topic, I think at the point when Draupadi was staked & won over, Arjun already was won over by Duryodhan & was forced to sit through the whole humiliation because he was just a mere slave by then. He was stripped off his status & power as a Prince & he had to surrender his weapon & royal belongings when he became slave. By which means he could have protected her? Was he ashamed? Yes. But could he do something at that point? No. The staking was done by Yudhistir, and Yudhistir lost in the game. By the manipulating game rule, Draupadi was indeed the Kaurav's property once Yudhistir staked her & lost. And the Pandavas always play by the rule. Arjun could not protest because --
a) The rules were manipulating & humiliating, but they indeed lost.
b) He himself was won over & had no powers to protect Draupadi as he was a slave for the Kaurav's by then.
My question will be more in the line of why didn't he stop Yudhistir from playing this game in the first place (i.e, when he was still a Prince & younger brother of Yudhistir, not Kaurav's slave)? And why Yudhistir did not stop after he lost all his material properties? Why he agreed to stake his brothers & wife? He could have simply lost & bowed out. Star Plus's presentation is exaggerated. They wanted to present Yudhistir as the victim of Shakuni's manipulation to justify this gamble to today's viewers. But it can not be justified. Originally Shakuni didn't need to trick or coerce him like this. Yudhistir put the stakes himself because he was hoping against hope that he will win at some point eventually & win back all the things he lost so far. And so the flagbearer of Dharma staked his dear ones in the gamble like properties. Why is Arjun being blamed in it? His only blame in my opinion is that he didn't stop his brother from playing this disastrous game. Once lost, he couldn't even protect himself, how could he have protected anyone else?
Thank You, I didn't know that Arjun was a slave
Yes, We are discussing how Krushna in same time period didn't do wrong only because his elder brother asked him to do it, Arjun was weak here or maybe he didn't want to jagao Yudhishtira 😂
Every time I watched the show, Yudhishtira came out more of an imbalanced ego maniac to me, I don't know why I always had this negative impression of him, a man who bets his kingdom, his brother and wife is not worthy of being The King, he didn't have anything going for him apart from his being the eldest son of Pandu.
Arjun, his brothers and Krushna should have realized this but it was very weird for me when it was shown that he was the only one who went to Swarg 🤦♀️ WTF
Thank You, I didn't know that Arjun was a slave
Yes, We are discussing how Krushna in same time period didn't do wrong only because his elder brother asked him to do it, Arjun was weak here or maybe he didn't want to jagao Yudhishtira 😂
Every time I watched the show, Yudhishtira came out more of an imbalanced ego maniac to me, I don't know why I always had this negative impression of him, a man who bets his kingdom, his brother and wife is not worthy of being The King, he didn't have anything going for him apart from his being the eldest son of Pandu.
Arjun, his brothers and Krushna should have realized this but it was very weird for me when it was shown that he was the only one who went to Swarg 🤦♀️ WTF
I suggest to read the epic starting with kmg or bibek debroy s CE or any other translated version you prefer it will give you more clarity about the epic and the characters
Originally posted by: Poorabhforever
This actually makes him look very shallow to participate in somebody s Swamyvaar for the competition knowing fully well what swamyvaar actually means plus vyasa clearly mention that all the five brothers were attracted to drapaudi. I have my issues with arjun but i don't think he was that shallow
Yes, all 5 were attracted to Draupadi upon seeing her. But the competition is one which involves archery. Now it's natural that only Arjun could have won this competition. Had it been a mace fight, Bheem would have done so. Vyasa met them way before the Swayamvara and told them about it already. (In case you want to see the citations I can share them here)
I don't see what is shallow about this. He was the archer out of the 5, so he went for the Swayamvara as the aim was to win Draupadi's hand. He didn't go to show his skills. I am saying he was the one who participated because he had the skills to win the contest. They were attracted to Draupadi but for Arjun his brother's orders have always had more importance, as seen several times in the epic. Hence when Yudhishthir suggested all 5 should marry her, he agreed. Had he been madly in love, would any man agree to share his wife whose hand he won? What do you think?
Thank You, I didn't know that Arjun was a slave
Yes, We are discussing how Krushna in same time period didn't do wrong only because his elder brother asked him to do it, Arjun was weak here or maybe he didn't want to jagao Yudhishtira 😂
Every time I watched the show, Yudhishtira came out more of an imbalanced ego maniac to me, I don't know why I always had this negative impression of him, a man who bets his kingdom, his brother and wife is not worthy of being The King, he didn't have anything going for him apart from his being the eldest son of Pandu.
Arjun, his brothers and Krushna should have realized this but it was very weird for me when it was shown that he was the only one who went to Swarg 🤦♀️ WTF
in mahabharath each character have some set of dharma n beliefs...failed in their life by living in that way..so we cant blame anybody in draupati incident..
but krishna was exceptional case in MB..he could clearly vision dharm and adharm in his own way..krishna avatar was his redemption of rama vatar..remember in rama avatar he follwed rajya rules strictly and sacrifice his wife(even his loving bro laxman did not like thas idea) and made her agni pariksha for ppl wish..
no..the every person participated MB war which happened in Kuruksetra goes to swarg..it was one of the promise given by krishna...yudy gone to swarg alone was illusion arranged by dharm deva for his last trial..
I said, Arjun was "Key" player, The MVP of Mahabharata, Krushna was Lord himself, he is not a player but a moderator according to the story, The fact that Krushna was with Arjun makes him the MVP, if I remember correctly then Bheema had expressed how helpless they are without Arjuna, moreover I didn't say "He is the only player"
You said that Arjun didn't care about Draupadi and he didn't go to swayamvar with his will. Arjun wasn't someone who would let a man insult a woman because he didn't 'care' about her, people protect strangers then Draupadi was in every part of his life, she shared every relationship with him that a woman shares with a man except his mother, grandmother and daughter, Draupadi was his wife, his friend, mother of his child, his bhabhi, his bahu and most importantly she is his queen, I didn't debate whether he cared for her or not because I would care for a dog who has been living with me for one month.
See, I think you mentioned you have not read much of the epic. I must implore you to do so and share your thoughts here after reading, hoping you would see my point then. Not caring about her is not the main reason I stated, I said for Arjun, his brothers and mother was always more important than his wife. And again, he would by no means wage war, for him probably standing by the promise his elder bro made (that is Yudhi's putting Drau on bet) was more important. I don't see him in bad light for other reasons I have, infact I am considered an Arjun fan in the forum😆 In today's lenses, ofcourse he will be considered an ardent anti feminist misogynist. But I do feel the things I stated above were more important to Arjun than his wife was at that time. (She was his wife, not Queen as Arjun wasn't a King 😛). That I feel, was the reason for his silence.
That was just his relationship with her, Arjun was a Kshatriya, Kshatriya Dharma compels them to protect everyone, so 'Arjun didn't care about Draupadi' is just bizarre
Alright, I take back those few words but you might want to go back and read my post again. This isn't the only thing I stated. I said many more important reasons why he might have been silent as I have stated in this post too. But yet I stand by my words because if someone would have cared, they would have bothered to atleast speak up rather than still remaining quiet, like Bheem did. Lastly, dharma is quite complicated. In my eyes too, he should have protested, but again, Dharma also teaches to stand by an elder brother, and be loyal to all his decisions. Dharma sankat isn't that easy to be solved, I guess.
His character is way more complex than this, one dimensional 'I don't like her so go have your way with her, even though she is my wife'
I never thought you were justifying Arjun, I just said that the reason you gave is too one dimensional and robotic
My answers in bold :)
Originally posted by: Swarnalatha5
in mahabharath each character have some set of dharma n beliefs...failed in their life by living in that way..so we cant blame anybody in draupati incident..
but krishna was exceptional case in MB..he could clearly vision dharm and adharm in his own way..krishna avatar was his redemption of rama vatar..remember in rama avatar he follwed rajya rules strictly and sacrifice his wife(even his loving bro laxman did not like thas idea) and made her agni pariksha for ppl wish..
no..the every person participated MB war which happened in Kuruksetra goes to swarg..it was one of the promise given by krishna...yudy gone to swarg alone was illusion arranged by dharm deva for his last trial..
In Chirharan incident, The blame goes to Yudhishtira who thought it is okay to bet his brothers and wife, The blame also goes to everyone who claimed to follow Dharma but failed to stop Dusashan when he dragged Draupadi to the Hall.
What I was trying to say is that when I say that I know about this particular rule of law or rule of dharma, if I see the CJI is giving judgment in a case, wouldn't I follow him? When the Lord himself didn't follow the rule of "Brother is always right", why should anyone else? One can obviously contemplate on CJI's decision, if wrong and correct it, to do what is right, ultimately Right is Dharma, If brother is wrong then he is wrong
Thanks for the last Para information, I always believed that it was Yudhishtira who went to swarg, it was a part of my school curriculum
Draupadi was Arjun's queen because she was wife of the King Yudhishtira. Draupadi served as queen, she handled finances of her Kingdom.
This stand of "Brother is right" even if he causes public humiliation and assault on a woman, renders her a slave not only her but his other brothers as well, that too for a game, is something I don't understand to be honest.
One thing or another was more important to people sitting in that hall, none of Draupadi's husbands tried to stop it, I blame Arjun more because he is the one who decides to participate in her swayamvar. He takes her responsibility and remains a viewer to her being assaulted and disrobed in front of 100 people.
The thing is that 'he did not care' applies to everyone sitting there, it's not exclusive to Arjun that's why I don't see it as a good reason, although someone in the thread explained how Arjun was a slave himself and if I remember correctly, he did say that Yudhishtira, who lost himself in the bet had no rights to bet Draupadi
Originally posted by: Poorabhforever
I suggest to read the epic starting with kmg or bibek debroy s CE or any other translated version you prefer it will give you more clarity about the epic and the characters
You know if I sit down to read it, I will feel guilty for not reading reference books for my exam, I just couldn't get this out of my head so posted here, it was going on and on
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