ahankar - episode 21 - Page 2

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Mano.M

@Mano.M

Achiever

+ 3

Posted: 8 years ago

#11

And to today ep

High point was the heated argument btw

Dasharat and Kaikeyi

And point to be noted was

In real sense Kaikeyi didn't want Bharat to be the future ruler

nor does she has any ill feelings for Ram

But Dashrat is not ready being questioned

And is too protective for Ram

Words spilled can't be taken back

It remains me this great Tamil literature called Thirukurral"

which is called an universal bible

It says,

"Theeyinal Sutta Pun Ullarum Aaradhe Navinal Sutta Vadu"

Means"

The wounds of fire would vanish with time but the wounds caused by words never"

Edited by -Mano- - 8 years ago

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Naam Main Kya Rakha Hai

@darkchocolates

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 8 years ago

#12

A perfect title and analysis for an awesome episode as well as quite dramatic one.

Loved it. Dilip Tahil is outstanding. The Mithila scene was also nice.

Overall a good episode!!!!

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deejagi

@deejagi

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 8 years ago

#13

Hi nice topic and equally great write up.

The condition of the one who lifts the Bow will be the match is to ensure that no one else get in between the couple. and not to give word of promise to someone else and regret later.(we have read and heard about this in case of Subadhra & Arjun when she was destined to marry Arjun, her brother Balram fixes her marriage with Duryodhan and then Arjun had to elope with Subadhra and also had to fight.)

And about Dashrath And Kaikeyi, to begin with Kaikeyi was not even wanted to make her son a king but she was annoyed for a simple reason, her husband had kept a secret from her which involve her and her son. So all she wanted was to know whether her husband had made a promise to her father during their marriage as she never knew she was a bite for some deal. things would not have aggravated, had Dashrath was open minded and not defensive. the way he behaved with her brother, no sister can bear to keep patience. king dashrath had literally snatched the morsel of food from Yudhjeet's mouth. he should have atleast waited till he finished the meal and would have talked to him in the confines of his room. there was literally no need for him to barge into the dining hall and sushed his wives who wanted to feed the brother.

Even after that he could have patiently explained that to Kaikeyi that even though he had promised her father about her son succeeding his throne, since Bharath is not the elder son, they shall not change the practice od Raghukul and hence Ram will be the next king, she would never have raised any objections to that and would have trained her son I n such a way that he will be Ram's right hand. But unfortunately, king Dashrath was overwhelmed with what had happened in the last few weeks or so and Ram being the one who won the archery test at Gurukul, then Ram was the reason for his reconciliation with Kausalya nd also Ram was the one who made it possible for the parents to reach out to their long lost daughter Shanta. Since Shanta had said she was not angry with her father for deserting her for his wish to have son, he was elated to think he sacrificed his daughter and so even though it was his wives who gave birth to sons' he took all the credit on himself for getting the sons.

Had he not gone vocal about his wives inability to give birth to sons which was a blow below the belt and had no Raghuvanshi pride in that. Overall, it was not Kaikeyi or Mathara or kaikeyi's father or brother who were the root cause for Ram's exile for 14 years but it was Dashrath's lack of patience and over pride and arrogance which caused separation of his children from him. Had he had some patience, kaikeyi would not have sent Bharath to her maternal home which resulted in Shathrugan following him and later Ram's exile and Lakshman following him to forest.

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Ramyalaxmi

@Ramyalaxmi

Dazzler

Posted: 8 years ago

#14

Originally posted by: Arshics

Please understand, in this day and age, anyone who thinks and acts like Dashratha will be condemned, so if the epic is seen through the eyes of a woman of today, these questions, these accusations are very justified.
We have long looked at Ramayana from a Bhakti bhava, we have never dared to question the actions of characters and never tried to put their motives on trial

This version of Ramayana dares to do so, and bravo! It does not put the characters on a pedestal of divine faith, it dares to say that Dashratha was wrong, Rishi Gautam was wrong, I hope it will even dare to say that Rama was wrong!!! For in my eyes, Rama was wrong, and no amount to devotion and faith has been able to take that out of my conscious and subconscious!

perfect words. When CV's showed Dhasarath was gender biased, I didnt liked those episodes. But it is certain, that in one day a loving mother kaikeyi turned to be a vamp by the words of manthara is just unacceptable. Its the anger and revenge which changed kaikeyi day-by-day not just by the dhasarath love towards Ram but by his arrogance and ego towards the rest.

@blue: Yes, but I want to know whether sita thought Ram was wrong or she simply accepted it. In which case she too was wrong.

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 8 years ago

#15

Originally posted by: Ramyalaxmi
Its the anger and revenge which changed kaikeyi day-by-day not just by the dhasarath love towards Ram but by his arrogance and ego towards the rest.

On what basis are you saying Kaikeyi was angry and revengeful from day one? Have you actually read the epic, or are you forming your opinion just by what the show is showing?

It is written in the epic very clearly that Dashrath's love for Ram was exceeded only by Kaikeyi's love for him! Kaikeyi loved Ram more than anyone else did. She never wanted Bharat to be King, and whatever insecurities she had did not revolve around Ram. No matter what people believe, Kaikeyi never questioned Dashrath about him making Ram King until Manthara's words worked made her fearful. You may say this is unrealistic, blah blah, but the epic gives us a very clear picture of Kaikeyi and she was not as negative as being portrayed in this show. Neither was Dashrath as arrogant or egoistic. It really saddens me that because of this show, people are learning such wrong facts.

Here is an excerpt from Valmiki about Kaikeyi's reaction to Manthara's news about Ram's coronation.

http://www.valmikiramayan.net/utf8/ayodhya/sarga7/ayodhya_7_frame.htm

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23. devi = Oh; queen! jaataa = having born; naraadhipakule = in royal family; mahishhii = being wife; mahiipate = of a king; katham = why; na buddhyase = not knowing; ugratvam = cruelty; raajadharmaaNaam = in kingly duties.

"Oh, Kaikeyi! Having born in a royal family and being an emperor's wife, how is it that you are not knowing about the cruelty in kingly duties?"

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24. bhartaa = your husband; dharma vaadii = talks of righteousness; shaThaH = but does harm secretly; shlakshhNa vaadii = talks sweetly; daaruNaH cha = but is a cruel man; shuddhabhaave = O; the clean minded! najaaniishhe = you are not able to know; atisandhitaa = that you are cheated; tena = by him; evam = thus.

"Your husband talks about righteousness, but does harm secretly. He says sweet words but behaves cruelly. Because of your clean thinking; you are not able to know that he is cheating you thus."

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25. te bhartaa = your husband; upasthitaH = approaches you; prayuJNjaanaH = employs; anarthakam = useless; saantvam = good words; tvayi = in your instance; adya = today; yojayishhyati = he bestows; arthena = benefit to; kausalyameva = only Kausalya.

"Your husband approaches you and talks good words, which are useless. But he passes on benefit today to Kausalya only."

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26. dushhTaatmaa = the evil minded; saH = he; apavaahya = sent; bharatam = Bharata; tava bandhushhu = to his relatives; kalye = at dawn; sthaapayitaa = is going to install; ramam = Rama; raajye = in kingdom; nihatakaNTake = without hindrance.

"The evil minded Dasaratha sent Bharata to the house of his relatives and at dawn, is going to install Rama on the throne without hindrance."

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27. baale = O; childish one! maatreva = like mother; hitakaamyayaa = being wished well being; tvayaa = by you; aashiivishhaH ankeneva = like a poisonous serpent in your bosom; shatruH = enemy; paridhR^itaH = being worn; patipravaadena = with husband's name.

"O, childish one! Like a mother, you wish for his well being. But he is an enemy, and is called husband for a namesake. He is like a poisonous serpent in your bosom."

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28. tvam = you; saputraa = along with your son; kR^itaa = have been done; raaJNaa dasarathena = by king Dasaratha; adya = today;yathaa tathaa kurvaat = as does; pratyupekshitaH = neglected; sarpo vaa = serpent or; shatruruvaa = an enemy

"King Dasaratha has acted towards you and your son today in the same way as an enemy or a serpent would behave if ignored."

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29. baale = O; childish one! nityasukhochite = you; who are ever deserving of ease; anR^ita saantvena = with his untruthful sweet words; sthaapayitaa = by installing; raamam = Rama; raajye = in kingdom; saanubandhaa = you along with your child; asihi hataa = are being hit; paapena = by the sinful king.

"O, stupid one! With his untruthful sweet words to you, who are ever deserving of ease, the evil minded king is installing Rama on the throne and is thus ruining you along with your son."

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30. kaikeyi = O; Kaikeyi! vismaya darshane = you; with amazing beauty! saa = that you; kuru = do; hitam = required action; praaptakaalam = appropriate to the time; kshipram = immediately; traayasva = save; aatmaanam = yourself; putram = your son; maam cha = and me.

"O, Kaikeyi, of amazing beauty! You have to take timely action immediately, so as to save yourself, your son and me too."

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31. shayanaa = lying in bed; saa = that; shubhaananaa = beautiful faced Kaikeyi; shrutvaa = hearing; mantharaayaaH = Manthara's; vachaH = words;harshhasampuurNaa = full of delight; uttasthau = rose(from the coach); chandralekheva = as crescent moon; shaaradii = in autumn.

Hearing Manthara's words, that Kaikeyi of charming countenance who was lying in bed, rose from her coach full of delight like unto the crescent moon in autumn.

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32. saa kaikeyii = that Kaikeyi; atiiva = much; santushhTaa = delighted; vismayaanvitaa = with surprise; dadau = gave; ekam = one; shubham = graceful;aabharaNam = jewel; tasyai = to that; kubjaayai = hunch backed Manthara.

That Kaikeyi in the midst of her astonishment and joy gave a graceful jewel to the hunch-backed Manthara.

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33. kaikeyi = Kaikeyi; pramadottamaa = the best among women; datvaa = gave; aabharaNam = a jewel; tasyai kubjaayai = to that hunch backed one; dR^istvaa= saw; mantharaam = Manthara; abraviit = spoke; idam = these words; punaH eva = again.

Kaikeyi, the best among women, gave a jewel to Manthara and spoke to her as follows:

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34. manthare = O; Manthara! aakhyaasi = you informed; idam = this; paramam = much; priyam = delightful news; mahyam = to me; kim vaa = what; bhuuyaH= additional (favour); karomi = can I do; te = for you; aakhyaatuH = who informed; etat = such; priyam = good (news); me = to me.

"Oh, Manthara! You informed much gladdening news to me. What else can I do for you, who informed such a good news?"

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35. aham = I; na upalakshaye = do not see; visheshham = difference; raamevaa = in either Rama; bharatevaa = or Bharata; tasmaat = that is why; tushhTaasmi= I am happy; yat = for; raajaa = king; abhishekshyati = anointing; ramam = Rama; raajye = in kingdom.

"I do not see any difference between Rama and Bharata. That is why, I am happy that Rama is being anointed for crown by the king."

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36. priyaarhe = O; Manthara; who are eligible to be delighted! na kinchit = No other; param = greater; itaH = than this; me = to me; na suvacham = cannot be told easily; param = greater; priyam = lovely; vachaH = words; tvayaapi = by you also; tvam = you; avochaH hi = informed; tathaa = thus; priyottaram = the best of loving news; ataH = for this reason; pradadaami = I shall give; param = good; varam = boon; te = to you; vR^iNu = ask for; tam = it.

"O, Manthara! You do merit every favor. I have no other pleasant news than this. Hence, you cannot ever again inform a better loving news than this. I shall give you a good boon. Ask for it!"

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Ramyalaxmi

@Ramyalaxmi

Dazzler

Posted: 8 years ago

#16

Originally posted by: ..RamKiJanaki..

On what basis are you saying Kaikeyi was angry and revengeful from day one? Have you actually read the epic, or are you forming your opinion just by what the show is showing?

It is written in the epic very clearly that Dashrath's love for Ram was exceeded only by Kaikeyi's love for him! Kaikeyi loved Ram more than anyone else did. She never wanted Bharat to be King, and whatever insecurities she had did not revolve around Ram. No matter what people believe, Kaikeyi never questioned Dashrath about him making Ram King until Manthara's words worked made her fearful. You may say this is unrealistic, blah blah, but the epic gives us a very clear picture of Kaikeyi and she was not as negative as being portrayed in this show. Neither was Dashrath as arrogant or egoistic. It really saddens me that because of this show, people are learning such wrong facts

@bold: Before asking me make sure that u know everything in perfect. U quoted from valmiki Ramayan r u sure that the cvs showed this character of kaikeyi w/o research?

Whether I know the epic or read it is not a worry for u its for me. I have read it and I know the truth that what i know is just unidirectional and I am ready to consider different perspective of the same.

Edited by Ramyalaxmi - 8 years ago

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 8 years ago

#17

Originally posted by: Ramyalaxmi

@bold: Before asking me make sure that u know everything in perfect. U quoted from valmiki Ramayan r u sure that the cvs showed this character of kaikeyi w/o research?
Whether I know the epic or read it is not a worry for u its for me. I have read it and I know the truth that what i know is just unidirectional and I am ready to consider different perspective of the same.

If the CVs truly did research, then why don't they cite their sources? Other adaptations of Ramayan cited their sources during the title song before every episode. Why don't the CVs of this show quote themselves? They make empty statements that they did research, but when so many viewers have asked them for their sources, they remain quiet. Why? It's because what they're showing has no source. It's complete fiction and they're showing it only to appease modern mindset.

To consider a different perspective, that different perspective should have some basis. Again, I am asking the CVs what their source is. On what basis are they showing Dashrath and Kaikeyi like this? Are they following the fictional works of authors like Anand Neelkanthan and Devdutt Patnaik, or are they following more ancient versions of the epic? The CVs have remained silent regarding this matter, because this so-called interpretation of Ramayan is total fiction and nothing more. People can enjoy this version all they want, but in the end of the day even they know it's just a work of entertainment. They're not learning the true story.

Edited by ..RamKiJanaki.. - 8 years ago

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Ramyalaxmi

@Ramyalaxmi

Dazzler

Posted: 8 years ago

#18

Originally posted by: ..RamKiJanaki..

If the CVs truly did research, then why don't they cite their sources? Other adaptations of Ramayan cited their sources during the title song before every episode. Why don't the CVs of this show quote themselves? They make empty statements that they did research, but when so many viewers have asked them for their sources, they remain quiet. Why? It's because what they're showing has no source. It's complete fiction and they're showing it only to appease modern mindset.

To consider a different perspective, that different perspective should have some basis. Again, I am asking the CVs what their source is. On what basis are they showing Dashrath and Kaikeyi like this? Are they following the fictional works of authors like Anand Neelkanthan and Devdutt Patnaik, or are they following more ancient versions of the epic? The CVs have remained silent regarding this matter, because this so-called interpretation of Ramayan is total fiction and nothing more. People can enjoy this version all they want, but in the end of the day even they know it's just a work of entertainment. They're not learning the true story.

I am not learning the epic from a TV show. It will be a bullshit then. What I am trying is to get justification for the actions from different frame of reference. If CVs are not with their sources, then we can analyse here to take the best possible reasoning for the action. I think thats why we have forum and not for personal attack.

For me kaikeyi who loved Ram more than her son bharath changed in a day by manthara words and asked dhasarath to send Ram for exile is not digestable. I like this justification for the act of kaikeyi. Whether its right or wrong is to be proved by those who stand by their way. I agree cvs have to disclosure their source.

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 8 years ago

#19

Originally posted by: Ramyalaxmi

I am not learning the epic from a TV show. It will be a bullshit then. What I am trying is to get justification for the actions from different frame of reference. If CVs are not with their sources, then we can analyse here to take the best possible reasoning for the action. I think thats why we have forum and not for personal attack.
For me kaikeyi who loved Ram more than her son bharath changed in a day by manthara words and asked dhasarath to send Ram for exile is not digestable. I like this justification for the act of kaikeyi. Whether its right or wrong is to be proved by those who stand by their way. I agree cvs have to disclosure their source.

Neither am I going to find justification for the actions of some of the characters from a TV show. Ramayan as an epic is so extensive that one human life is not enough to truly understand it. I don't need the fictional explanations from TRP crazy TV producers to help me understand Ramayan. I will go to the texts and learned saints with any questions I have.

And if you like the explanation that Kaikeyi was bitter and revengeful from the start, then fine, but don't purport it as the original story. Personally, I don't find Valmiki's explanation of Kaikeyi's change of heart unreasonable. What he wrote made sense, like everything else he wrote, but if you'd rather take a television interpretation for fact, that's cool.

The CVs have a lot to answer to. Either they should cite their source for each of the contradictory stories they've shown so far, or they should admit openly that what they're showing is fiction and meant to be viewed as mere entertainment. Only this can settle the viewers like me who are highly displeased with the show.

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Ramyalaxmi

@Ramyalaxmi

Dazzler

Posted: 8 years ago

#20

Originally posted by: ..RamKiJanaki..

Neither am I going to find justification for the actions of some of the characters from a TV show. Ramayan as an epic is so extensive that one human life is not enough to truly understand it. I don't need the fictional explanations from TRP crazy TV producers to help me understand Ramayan. I will go to the texts and learned saints with any questions I have.

And if you like the explanation that Kaikeyi was bitter and revengeful from the start, then fine, but don't purport it as the original story. Personally, I don't find Valmiki's explanation of Kaikeyi's change of heart unreasonable. What he wrote made sense, like everything else he wrote, but if you'd rather take a television interpretation for fact, that's cool.

The CVs have a lot to answer to. Either they should cite their source for each of the contradictory stories they've shown so far, or they should admit openly that what they're showing is fiction and meant to be viewed as mere entertainment. Only this can settle the viewers like me who are highly displeased with the show.

There is no need for me to have the same opinion as u. We can agree to disagree.

@bold: I am not claiming anything as u quote. I just feel even this as a possibility for kaikeyi's action and I have a right to express my thought as u do.

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