Did Draupadi really love arjun more?[DT Note Page 22] - Page 13

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AnuMP

@AnuMP

Rocker

Posted: 9 years ago

#121

@shindes

No I don't think it negates Panchali's strength if it is pointed out that she had strong passions. What I object to is the one sided analysis. I have not seen one post in this thread that suggests that the depth of connection was mutual.

The suggestion is that she was pining. As Indianprincess said, you have to practically get through miles of posts on how she was pining, how she was jealous, how she was heartbroken and how she was upset before you get to one bit of non-Arjun related info on her. This, about a woman who had more responsibility on her shoulders than even Arjun! And even for the romantically inclined, not one bit of info on any feeling from his part.

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Dr Sweety Shinde

@DrShindeSweety

Explorer

Posted: 9 years ago

#122

Originally posted by: AnuMP
TM, what is in that quote which suggests that she was not happy about her future rather than just about Arjun? Also in that case, why in the world did she accept the division?

Once ambitious Kunti decided she would on NO terms take back her words (Why? she was no sage or saint - and even they gave upa-shaap after uttering a shaap), let's see options available to Arjun & Draupadi.

Arjun could

1. Insist on being Draupadi's sole husband. This would be convenient way for people to blame him in case of a subsequent dissent btwn 5 brothers (whereas in fact, his 4 brothers should have insisted that their unity is far stronger than Draupadi's allure)

2. Break ties with his 4 brothers, in which case again he would have to shoulder the blame. People would accuse him of craving for a virgin bride over sacrifice for family. Also could be accused of being won over by Drupad's wealth.

In such a scenario, I cannot see a way out for Arjun from Kunti's pre-decided words.

Draupadi, if she rejected the division,

1. Its possible that she would be blamed again for creating a rift between 5 brothers.

2. Panchal had just been saved from her suitors by Arjun-Bheem. In case of a rift, wouldn't she expose Panchal again to an attack by outsiders?

In such a scenario, is Draupadi left with any option?

Its only Kunti who had the option of overturning her words, which she chose not to.

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AnuMP

@AnuMP

Rocker

Posted: 9 years ago

#123

But Vyasa had already told them about Panchali and they went there planning for all 5 to marry her. That part is quite clear even in KMG. Kunti is being made scapegoat in this situation. It was a decision made together and Arjun has a big part of the blame since he won her. Either that or that Vyasa bit is an interpolation

I agree that Panchali had not much of choice there. But when else in the epic did Panchali accept something quietly? Even in the direst of situations, she fought vehemently and was very vocal. If she agreed to it, she had a reason and that was not being Mrs Arjun. She may have seen the advantages to being Mrs Yudhi, nothing wrong with that.

Also TM, so Panchali had an infatuation like teens today have an infatuation for movie stars they have never met? And Drupad perhaps went along? In that case why did Drupad tell Krishna to marry Panchali to whoever he wanted?

Edited by AnuMP - 9 years ago

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Dr Sweety Shinde

@DrShindeSweety

Explorer

Posted: 9 years ago

#124

Originally posted by: AnuMP
@shindes

No I don't think it negates Panchali's strength if it is pointed out that she had strong passions. What I object to is the one sided analysis. I have not seen one post in this thread that suggests that the depth of connection was mutual.

The suggestion is that she was pining. As Indianprincess said, you have to practically get through miles of posts on how she was pining, how she was jealous, how she was heartbroken and how she was upset before you get to one bit of non-Arjun related info on her. This, about a woman who had more responsibility on her shoulders than even Arjun! And even for the romantically inclined, not one bit of info on any feeling from his part.

Even 5000 years since MB, there are people who expect her to strictly follow 'equality in loving all 5'. There are people who insist that she follow codes and nurture exactly same portion of love for each husband. So you can imagine the narrow zones within which they could express feelings 5000 years ago.

The instances that you mentioned are scattered across the epic. Its just that when they are put together in one sentence that it starts to caricaturize her into a pining woman.

Its also true that Arjun was the one always travelling far and wide. Its natural that she would miss his presence. I'm sure if Bheem or Nakul had travelled away for celestial weapons, she would have stated that she missed them too.

The rest hardly ever ventured into long travels with long periods of absence.

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Dr Sweety Shinde

@DrShindeSweety

Explorer

Posted: 9 years ago

#125

@ AnuMP,

Exactly, there are 2 very contradictory events happening there.

In one, Vyas tells them Draupadi is destined to be wife to all 5. And Kunti knows as well, since they travel towards Panchal exclusively for swayamwar.

That clashes with infamous 'slip-of-tongue' by Kunti. Yudhishtir had left hall with twins while Bheem-Arjun were still battling, so obviously Kunti knew Draupadi was on her way to their hut.

In 'Yugant', Irawati Karve analyzsed this incident. She thinks Yudhi leaving 2 brothers battling in swayamwar hall, as the first sign of dissent and first crack in their unity- which must have terrified Kunti. Hence her words and plan were pre-decided by the time Draupadi actually arrived.

After that, of course the newly weds were left with no choice, since both Kunti & Yudhi decided to play innocent and insisted on 'preventing adharma, hence mother's words should be upheld.'

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AnuMP

@AnuMP

Rocker

Posted: 9 years ago

#126

That's an explanation that I can accept. But that would mean that Arjun was willing to go against his brothers for Panchali and was stopped by his mother.

Me likey!😆

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AnuMP

@AnuMP

Rocker

Posted: 9 years ago

#127

I had a friend look up the swayamvara episode from CE in Sanskrit

CE, Adi Parva Chapter 179

Here is the actual sloka.

viddham tu lakshyam pratisameekshya, krishnaa paartha sakrapratimam nireekshya
aadaaya shuklam varamaalyadaama; jagaama kunteesutam utsmayanti
pratisameekshya - seeing / witnessing
lakshyam - the aim
tu - tu here is only expletive
viddham - pierced
Krishnaa - Draupadi
nireekshya - looked at
Paartha - Arjuna
sakra pratimam - (who) resembled Indra
utsmayanti - smiling widely
jagaama - went
kuntee sutam - towards the son of Kunti
aadaaya - taking
shuklam - white
varamaalya daama - wreath like wedding garland
The word UTSMAYA means smile widely / smile / with pride / feeling proud / with wonder (surprise). In case of a flower, it means 'blooming'. It does not indicate ecstasy, I am told.

One - She got surprised seeing the aim pierced, looked at the guy who did it with the same surprise as no one present there was able to do it & walked towards him with the same surprise, taking the wedding garland. She smiled either in relief that it finally got done or in surprise from the same

Or, UTSMAYA can also mean 'with pride' or 'feeling pride'. If we take that as the meaning, a sense of pride (self esteem) has always been a big part of Panchali, we can only say she walked towards Arjuna with her princess gait, as she always did (think the straight backed , chin up, eyes direct kind of gait in tune to Kumari Chaapi)

Edited by AnuMP - 9 years ago

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amritat

@amritat

Sparkler

Posted: 9 years ago

#128

Now I am totally loving this discussion...😳

No comparisons of who loved whom more...but simple discussions and evaluations of the Shlokas...

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ltelidevaralak

@ltelidevaralak

Explorer

Posted: 9 years ago

#129

Originally posted by: AnuMP
I had a friend look up the swayamvara episode from CE in Sanskrit

CE, Adi Parva Chapter 179

Here is the actual sloka.
viddham tu lakshyam pratisameekshya, krishnaa paartha sakrapratimam nireekshya
aadaaya shuklam varamaalyadaama; jagaama kunteesutam utsmayanti
pratisameekshya - seeing / witnessing
lakshyam - the aim
tu - tu here is only expletive
viddham - pierced
Krishnaa - Draupadi
nireekshya - looked at
Paartha - Arjuna
sakra pratimam - (who) resembled Indra
utsmayanti - smiling widely
jagaama - went
kuntee sutam - towards the son of Kunti
aadaaya - taking.
shuklam - white
varamaalya daama - wreath like wedding garland
The word UTSMAYA means smile widely / smile / with pride / feeling proud / with wonder (surprise). In case of a flower, it means 'blooming'. It does not indicate ecstasy, I am told.

One - She got surprised seeing the aim pierced, looked at the guy who did it with the same surprise as no one present there was able to do it & walked towards him with the same surprise, taking the wedding garland. She smiled either in relief that it finally got done or in surprise from the same

Or, UTSMAYA can also mean 'with pride' or 'feeling pride'. If we take that as the meaning, a sense of pride (self esteem) has always been a big part of Panchali, we can only say she walked towards Arjuna with her princess gait, as she always did (think the straight backed , chin up, eyes direct kind of gait in tune to Kumari Chaapi)

utsmayanti means smilingly.Kmg gave it as joyfully..either way it tells her ecastacy ,joy etc.

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ltelidevaralak

@ltelidevaralak

Explorer

Posted: 9 years ago

#130

Originally posted by: AnuMP
@shindes
No I don't think it negates Panchali's strength if it is pointed out that she had strong passions. What I object to is the one sided analysis. I have not seen one post in this thread that suggests that the depth of connection was mutual.

The suggestion is that she was pining. As Indianprincess said, you have to practically get through miles of posts on how she was pining, how she was jealous, how she was heartbroken and how she was upset before you get to one bit of non-Arjun related info on her. This, about a woman who had more responsibility on her shoulders than even Arjun! And even for the romantically inclined, not one bit of info on any feeling from his part.

well as a writer I am first presenting Draupadi's love for arjun as given by Vyasa.After that I would definitely provide authentic information regarding Arjun's love for her.These facts would clearly support Sweety shinde's words ...the fire is on both sides. I never think Draupadi pined for him. I am against using that word.She loved him the most I can say with conviction.

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