In the aftermath of the war there were lessons for everybody! - Page 7

Originally posted by: SindhuMenon

any chance this can be a dream Mansi..:):)

Originally posted by: chitterati

Great post Mansi, after the show yesterday I was apprehensive about coming to the forum... I knew what to expect ... Volumes of brick bats coming CVs way, and I was right!!! But your post is positive as ever. Loved the fact that you focused on lessons learned versus who did what, and if it was right or wrong.

Coming to the episode, it reinforced the feeling that I had been having for a while, that this show is not about Akbar the Great, or even about how Jodha was crucial to Jalal's success. It is indeed about a journey of love between two EQUALLY great people. Each spectacular in their own right. But as the male dominated society of those days would have it - one would go on to be be part of history books and historical timeline other has been smudged in the shadows of time.

EK and her CVs are attempting to bring forth a love story that has been sidelined due to more visible accomplishments of Akbar. And since there is little or no material on their life together creatives have to resort to seemingly absurd NR to draw a sketch of who Jodha was and why she was so dear to Akbar.

I can understand why some Jalal fans will feel that their is no growth or focus on Jalal's characterisation, I was one of them till not too long ago. But the thing is we all have read about Akbar, we all know, believe and accept his greatness. Cvs really needn't reinforce that by showing scores of wars and military and political accomplishments, that simply would not satiate the entertainment needs of audience. That is why JA is way ahead of MP in terms of following.

Since this is a love story, writers have to focus on Jodha and her hunars to setup a premise of Jalal's fondness for her. If she was not shown to be exceptional, it would be hard to accept as to why she rose to be Akbar's favourite wife.

I personally have now started watching this show for the love story, so focus Jo pe ho ya Jalal pe, I just enjoy watching them together. Their togetherness is what makes or breaks an episode for me

Originally posted by: chitterati

Great post Mansi, after the show yesterday I was apprehensive about coming to the forum... I knew what to expect ... Volumes of brick bats coming CVs way, and I was right!!! But your post is positive as ever. Loved the fact that you focused on lessons learned versus who did what, and if it was right or wrong.

Coming to the episode, it reinforced the feeling that I had been having for a while, that this show is not about Akbar the Great, or even about how Jodha was crucial to Jalal's success. It is indeed about a journey of love between two EQUALLY great people. Each spectacular in their own right. But as the male dominated society of those days would have it - one would go on to be be part of history books and historical timeline other has been smudged in the shadows of time.

EK and her CVs are attempting to bring forth a love story that has been sidelined due to more visible accomplishments of Akbar. And since there is little or no material on their life together creatives have to resort to seemingly absurd NR to draw a sketch of who Jodha was and why she was so dear to Akbar.

I can understand why some Jalal fans will feel that their is no growth or focus on Jalal's characterisation, I was one of them till not too long ago. But the thing is we all have read about Akbar, we all know, believe and accept his greatness. Cvs really needn't reinforce that by showing scores of wars and military and political accomplishments, that simply would not satiate the entertainment needs of audience. That is why JA is way ahead of MP in terms of following.

Since this is a love story, writers have to focus on Jodha and her hunars to setup a premise of Jalal's fondness for her. If she was not shown to be exceptional, it would be hard to accept as to why she rose to be Akbar's favourite wife.

I personally have now started watching this show for the love story, so focus Jo pe ho ya Jalal pe, I just enjoy watching them together. Their togetherness is what makes or breaks an episode for me

Wonderful take , Mansi... Very very thoughtful and truly positive...

For me yest episode was Jalal's journey from past to future... He was tied in that cave by his own ppl and the one who freed him was Maansing, one Rajvanshi, and at the same time back at Warfield and encampment while his own army , his own ppl were facing defeat, then the ppl who saved them were Ameris at Warfield and his own Jodha at the encampment... this was a transition for Jalal that he was freeing himself from the clutches of the relationships of those so-called his ppl with the help of rajvanshies who r going to be the most imp part of his life when he is starting his new life, with the title Akbar to really becoming Akbar the gr8...

Yes, Maansing freed him from Mali's clutches, when all those his ppl like Munim khan, Adham and all were proved useless, it was just that 16 year old boy who proved that Jalal was never wrong to trust in the boy that in future he will be one of the gr8 personalities and very close to him...

Same was with Bharmal and his sons... Jalal hadn't asked for their help, but they were there for him, when he needed them the most... Wasn't this the thing Jalal has craved for most of his life??? The love of a family, the support of a family which u can rely upon, the need to belong to a family, when there r so many who look at u just for their own benefits... agreed , Ameries were there for him coz their daughter is his wife...but then there r those relatives of his own, who has till date proved themselves to be perfect backstabbers...and so definitely if now onwords he look more towards ameries for the true love and support, then he won't be wrong...

And lastly, his own Jodha... Their relationship has changed 360 degrees in the time from their marriage to this war...there was a time when she wanted his blood, but now there she is , fighting for his honour , taking care of his own blood... There was a time when he all wanted was to humiliate her, he used to find new ways to crush her, and now here he is... All that matters to him most is to be with her...where once he used to love to see the tears in her eyes to satisfy his ego, now those same tears gave him pain in his heart... where once he was finding peace and happiness in torturing her, now he is finding that peace in her arms...

this is called journey...and this journey certainly doesn't make him weak... But this journey is something which is giving him the new vision to judge the ppl, to understand the difference btw real and fake... and certainly, when somebody gets such vision , the transformation of that person in future will surely be as someone who will be called as visionary...

yes, Akbar was gr8... But he wasn't born gr8...nor had he that insight to judge the right difference btw right and wrong when he was under the influence of BK and MA... But when he came out of that influence , surely that was the time when he formed those relationships with the rajvanshies... that was the time which helped him bringing out that visionary in him which made him the insightful, wise king who made the world to recognize and accept him as the Great... And this greatness he achieved was over the years , not at the age of 22 / 23... So that journey is now started , with Jalal getting out of clutches from those wrong and evil ppl who would have been the real blocks in the way of his becoming gr8...and returning to those who will fill his world with their love , support and loyalty , which will only become his strength for the wonderful and very bright future he has ever thought of...

Originally posted by: skanda12

Oh, is she wearing that Mughal livaaz?

Originally posted by: sweet_diksha

Wonderful take , Mansi... Very very thoughtful and truly positive...

For me yest episode was Jalal's journey from past to future... He was tied in that cave by his own ppl and the one who freed him was Maansing, one Rajvanshi, and at the same time back at Warfield and encampment while his own army , his own ppl were facing defeat, then the ppl who saved them were Ameris at Warfield and his own Jodha at the encampment... this was a transition for Jalal that he was freeing himself from the clutches of the relationships of those so-called his ppl with the help of rajvanshies who r going to be the most imp part of his life when he is starting his new life, with the title Akbar to really becoming Akbar the gr8...

Yes, Maansing freed him from Mali's clutches, when all those his ppl like Munim khan, Adham and all were proved useless, it was just that 16 year old boy who proved that Jalal was never wrong to trust in the boy that in future he will be one of the gr8 personalities and very close to him...

Same was with Bharmal and his sons... Jalal hadn't asked for their help, but they were there for him, when he needed them the most... Wasn't this the thing Jalal has craved for most of his life??? The love of a family, the support of a family which u can rely upon, the need to belong to a family, when there r so many who look at u just for their own benefits... agreed , Ameries were there for him coz their daughter is his wife...but then there r those relatives of his own, who has till date proved themselves to be perfect backstabbers...and so definitely if now onwords he look more towards ameries for the true love and support, then he won't be wrong...

And lastly, his own Jodha... Their relationship has changed 360 degrees in the time from their marriage to this war...there was a time when he wanted his blood, but now there she is , fighting for his honour , taking care of his own blood... There was a time when he all wanted was to humiliate her, he used to find new ways to crush her, and now here he is... All that matters to him most is to be with her...where once he used to love to see the tears in her eyes to satisfy his ego, now those same tears gave him pain in his heart... where once he was finding peace and happiness in torturing her, now he is finding that peace in her arms...

this is called journey...and this journey certainly doesn't make him weak... But this journey is something which is giving him the new vision to judge the ppl, to understand the difference btw real and fake... and certainly, when somebody gets such vision , the transformation of that person in future will surely be as someone who will be called as visionary...

yes, Akbar was gr8... But he wasn't born gr8...nor had he that insight to judge the right difference btw right and wrong when he was under the influence of BK and MA... But when he came out of that influence , surely that was the time when he formed those relationships with the rajvanshies... that was the time which helped him bringing out that visionary in him which made him the insightful, wise king who made the world to recognize and accept him as the Great... And this greatness he achieved was over the years , not at the age of 22 / 23... So that journey is now started , with Jalal getting out of clutches from those wrong and evil ppl who would have been the real blocks in the way of his becoming gr8...and returning to those who will fill his world with their love , support and loyalty , which will only become his strength for the wonderful and very bright future he has ever thought of...

Mansi, mind blowing take.

All I can say to begin with is that the entire war track retained all the characters as human as possible and didn't make them demons or Gods.

The brave Jodha who was anticipating every move of Abul Mali well in advance could not see that he might throw sand on her eyes to make is flee easy. Her momentary preoccupation on Nigar's entry made it easy for Mali and it clearly showed that the CVs didn't plan to show Jodha picture perfect. If they wanted to make her superwoman, they would have showed her turn her face anticipating the mud and attack Mali instantly. But they showed her more natural as anyone can lose attention however strong minded they are they will succumb to momentary lapse.

Her attack on Nigar was also showed perfectly not just with sword but also with words. In her own words she said "just because you are the daughter of Late Shehenshah, it doesn't allow you go scot-free always. If you plan to harm my family and people, I won't spare you even though you are my Sister In law and my husband's loving sister. Had you been on your guard and stayed away from hurting my people, I would have spared you but not now when you are ready to sabotage other women's chastity and shame on you for being a woman yourself. Had you acted perfectly like a daughter, we would have gladly given you everything we had and treated you with respect in line with Mallika but here you are causing pain to your innocent mother and brother and I can't bear that I am here to put a stop to their pain. Now you are just an enemy for me and taste the strength of my arms which always cajoled you to your sleep. So far you had seen the soft side of Jodha but now you will see the other side of me who is fierce and will be ready to stab anyone who dares to damage the peace of her sultanate.

Her relief on seeing the approaching Atgah Khan was genuine like a daughter who had been holding herself together to give an assurance to her family that things are under control , will heave a sigh of relief on seeing her father entering the to take the reins into his hands. She was assured now that the AK has entered the seen with his soldiers; he will take care of the balance and there is no need for me to stand here now. I have done my duty to hold the wall from collapsing but now they will cement it and make it strong.

They didn't show Mansingh as the here who just runs inside and cut off the chains of Jalal even while enemy soldiers were showering arrows on him or marching towards him with open swords. They made him to wait till it is dark, so that he can choose his position to attack the enemies and cause momentary loss to them and before they gain their stand, he could release Jalal. They showed him as more human than a superkid shown in Harry Potter movie.

They didn't show Jalal too weak or too strong even after rigorous torture of 30 hours. He was shown physically weak which was the aftermath of that torture but he was shown mentally strong as he still had his confidence on his few subedhars like TM, Atgah and others to have taken care his weaker section of the praja that is the ladies back in their war camp.

His strong mind started wavering the moment he realized that the ladies are left unattended on their own as Todarmal left to rescue him and he started aging on seeing the debris of his camp. He was cursing his stars for not being their to safeguard them when the enemy attacked their camp and looted his everything and then he saw the small ray of hope when he spotted Atgah Khan issuing some instructions to his soldiers but he could not voice out his fears. And at the crucial moment he saw his father who was worried for his health and in that fleeting moment, he was assured that nothing uncalled for has happened and even if there could be causality, his sultanate is unaffected. (any sultanate falls apart the moment it loses its chastity and the virtue of any king is his harem and if they are safe, then a king can conquer anything in the world. It was so human for him to believe if Raja Bharmal is standing here unaffected, then nothing has happened any of the Mughal ladies (or shall I say Royal ladies). He was assured of that for the precise reason that "to save the many ladies of his kingdom, BM went ahead to get his daughter married to a Mughal Emperor who was the arch enemy of their dynasty." So if he is at peace, it is assured that the women are safe from the enemies cruel clutches.

When he met his crying mother, he was that little child who wanted the warm embrace of his mother when he woke up with a nightmare. And he was amazed to realize that despite being wounded none of his wives were complaining of pain (normally that would be the case when royal ladies will get even pricked by a pin, they will make a huge hue and cry to draw attention) but what he saw was complete harmony where everyone is attending everyone and that too when they were seriously injured.

Hamida made it easy for him to understand the situation by telling him that they had lost hopes and were succumbing to Abul Mali's tricks and it was Jodha's faith & presence of mind which made them to be alive now. And the rest was filled in by the enthusiastic and ever chirpy Ruqayya on how they were about to die by consuming poison and how Jodha changed the scenario by instigating them against the enemy and how they decided to fight first even if they had to die later. It was her bravery, her confidence and it was her trust and her encouragement that the Mughal ladies took on the enemy and could teach them their lesson for life. And what more is required for a husband to hear such great words for his wife that too from another wife.

What more is required for a king that the women in his sultanate can save themselves at the time of need and they not only save themselves but also can save others and sultanate. If a lady decides to be brave, then it is the sign of the prosperity of any country. If a lady is self-sufficient and can help others without waiting for the man to support, then he can invest his attention on many more things to improvise in his ruling. He was happy to hear those appreciating and inspirational words from his harem but was he just proud of his wives (say wife) for their victory? NO, his pride had limited life but his guilt ate him alive as he was feeling feeble for bringing them to the war field and for leaving them unattended for his momentary loss of presence of mind and for that one fleeting moment where he fumbled upon his love for his sister and lost his sharpness and undivided attention towards war. Had he convinced his weak mind to control his longing for his sisters company, he would have saved so many lives and spared so many women from going through a mental agony. However hard he may try to look happy, he will be grieving from within for this part of his life where himself was responsible for the damage caused and for putting his wives and his mother and other ladies life and virtue at stake. It was perfect now that they fought like a team and chased the enemy and what would have happened if Atgah Khan and his troop arrived little later, what would have happened, if Abul Mali had captured some weakling than fighting with Jodha & Ruqu. What would have happened had he chose to take a lady as hostage while fleeing away? Would Jalal be able to forgive himself for that? Ruqu as a born prince had seen many a times, people in the harem consuming poison and take their lives before the enemy stretch their hands to catch them but for the first time she realized that even they could have lived had they chose to fight for their chastity. That she learnt from Jodha and that is the precise reason she saluted Jodha for her bravery as well as presence of mind. And somehow I don't think she will turn evil again but her past might dance in front of her while she blame Maham for her involvement in Chand begum case and that way she might go behind the scene. She may not do anything to harm Jodha's unborn child.

Jodha had been controlling her emotion all along just to give a strong appearance to other and to show that things are under control or will be under control and there was nothing worry. But she was as human as others were and she didn't had the liberty to cry out aloud as there was a requirement for someone to be strong and console others. Otherwise they would have lost everything and everyone. She had control her emotions for her mother Hamida to convey the message, she I am not crying it is only because I know your son is safe. She had to show strong will power to those ladies who have been shattered to know their husband is no more and some brutal animals will claim their body soon. She had to convince them no such things will happen as their husband is intact but need their little support that they should hold themselves together till such time he make his entry. So she didn't had the liberty to cry in front of those already crying females. She had to stay put and save herself for her child who is yet to make his grand entry to this heavenly earth and she could not afford to lose him for any reason as he was the most awaited guest by each and every one in the sultanate. She had to control herslf and present a everything in a perfectly wrapped cover to her husband who was already grieving for the treachery his sister, mother and brother in law were causing. She never wanted him to face the brutal truth of the damage caused by his enemies, so she had to show a smiling face even while she was crying within for her husband's safety and her childs life.

The moment she was alone with her husband, she could be herself, the worst is over, her husband has returned unharmed and her child is on perfect health. She had to wash out all her fear, pain, agony with her nonstop tears, so that the next morning will be a new dawn.

Originally posted by: skanda12

Diksha, you have touched on the core turning point of Akbar's life, I feel, and it is beautiful the way you have explained it. In fact I remember very long ago, almost at the start of the serial we had Sangeetha (Lizzy2012) who was a historian who said that as time progresses we will see the gradual "Amerification" of Jalal and correspondingly we will see the gradual "Mughalification" of Jodha.

I am reminded of that when I read your post. I can actually feel what Jalal must have felt when he saw progressively that the Mughals in his immediate family were full of treachery and falling in his estimation one by one, and on the other hand the Ameris became his adopted and preferred family for their unstinting loyalty and support each and every time he needed it.

At the same time, Jodha who began as a Rajvanshi is now pregnant and see how her need is now there to become more Mughal in her ways as a result of love for Jalal ... she asked to learn how he prays, she is wanting to feel and be part of the Mughals by wearing Mughal clothing etc when she knows she may be giving the Sultanate its waaris.

This is a beautiful passage in their lives for Jodha and Jalal where each is discovering what it feels like to be part of the other one's community, apart from also deriving the political and personal benefit of such personal growth into each other's lives.

And as you rightly say, this journey into each other's lives, this gives them both a fresh perspective on life as if seen through each other's eyes. I feel, for me, one of the beautiful aspects f this Jodha-Jalal love is that we have been able to see how far apart they were and how clannish to start with ... and gradually they came to a central meeting point where they understood and valued each other and became part of each other's lives, but they did not yet go the extra distance to becoming part of each other's community. Now a sense of "belonging" has come to Jalal as regards the Ameris, and a sense of "belonging" has come to Jodha with respect to Mughals.

And the part where you say that Jalal journey to greatness is not complete at 23 years but beginning at 23 years is brilliant! That's exactly what I was also trying to say when I wrote that I want to see Jalal as "evolving and maturing" and not as "already matured and complete". For that matter whose life is ever completely matured? We are all evolving all the time throughout our lives so why expect the characters in the serial to be at their peak all the time,. The beauty of the story is in seeing how they evolve to fit into each other's lives more and more intertwiningly every day in newer and newer ways!