DOTW: Do you think that Pandu would have... - Page 2

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... accepted Karna as his son had Kunti fessed up to him?

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RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#11
I think Pandu would have accepted Kunti regardless of the traditions of those times, because his own family wasn't immune to such drama. Satyavati had a similar fate to Kunti and had Vyasa out of marriage, and it was from Vyasa that Dhritarastra and Pandu were born, so it'd be pretty hypocritical for Pandu to disown Kunti IMO, because he was fathered by a man born out of wedlock himself.

Another reason why Pandu would not have disowned Kunti is that it was through her he and Madri got children. Without Kunti's mantra, he would have remained childless, so even out of selfish motives, I doubt he would have disowned her. If anything, she might have fallen from his love and esteem, but he wouldn't get rid of her so easily.

When I think of Pandu now, I think of Arun Singh Rana, and it's so difficult for me to think of that sweet faced guy disowning his wife πŸ˜†, but yes, without keeping that image in mind, this is my answer.
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#12
One question I have is, how did Bhishma suspect about Karna's true heritage? πŸ˜• As far as I am aware, no one except Kunti and her personal maid knew about Karna's birth. Of course, Lord Krishna being God knew about it, but did he tell Bhishma? I don't recollect reading that anywhere.
Justlikethat1 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#13
Pandu was not emotional like Dhridhrashtra and he had a deep respect for Kunthi. He realized her intelligence and her duti bound attitude on the night if their marriage..
But I wonder if Pandu even if he had been magnanimous enough to accept Karna would have been able to do so as a king of Hastinapur.πŸ˜•

Ceaser's wife should always be above suspicion, at least when it comes to the kingdom and it's people. This is one of the main reasons Lord Ram had to send Sita Maiyya away. As Vidur said so correctly, a king was considered the supreme and a descendant of Gods themselves to his subjects. His wife would share his status.. Hence she would have to be correct and beyond any reproach.

Even if Pandu accepts Karba ( from today's episode, Pandu seems like a sensible and fair king. He would have given Kunthi a chance to explain..), it will only be as Pandu and not as a king.

The births of vichitraveerya and his brother, vedavyas's birthmark these were all well kept secrets in the family. None in the kingdom knew about the origin of the kuru princes..

However with the passage of time, when the Pandavas were born, their stature and skills made them popular.. They were known for their strengths and even then, they were Pandu's son.. It is only later that they call upon the Gods who were their actual fathers..

By that time, people were fed up of Duryodhana and his atrocities and were ready to overlook the fact of parentage.. It also helped that pandavas were supposed to have divine blood..

With Karna though, it would have been difficult at the time of Kunthi's marriage to acknowledge him.. For one Dhridhrashtra would have objected.. So would have satyavati who wanted her Vansh to continue., hence, I do not think it would have been possible for Karna to be adopted😊
Justlikethat1 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#14

Originally posted by: JanakiRaghunath

One question I have is, how did Bhishma suspect about Karna's true heritage? πŸ˜• As far as I am aware, no one except Kunti and her personal maid knew about Karna's birth. Of course, Lord Krishna being God knew about it, but did he tell Bhishma? I don't recollect reading that anywhere.


I don't think Bheeshma knew either.. Kunthi recognizes her son only when he challenges Arjun and even then she keeps quiet fearing for the Pandavas reputation, by then Karna is totally against the pandavas.. Btw, does not Karna know of his mother only after she tells him before the war? I thought he never knew before that.. Or does he?
Acumen thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#15
Watching the episode of Kunti's swayamvar Pandu has emerged as a wise king who looks into all the facts. His reply to the question asked by Kunti proves that.

In my opinion he must have accepted Kunti & Karn once the truth was infront of him.
Edited by rain4ever - 11 years ago
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#16

Originally posted by: JanakiRaghunath

One question I have is, how did Bhishma suspect about Karna's true heritage? πŸ˜• As far as I am aware, no one except Kunti and her personal maid knew about Karna's birth. Of course, Lord Krishna being God knew about it, but did he tell Bhishma? I don't recollect reading that anywhere.


When Karna approached Bheeshma after the latter was downed by Arjun, Bheeshma told him that he knew that Karna was Kunti's son. In fact, this secret of Kunti was known only to Krishna, Bheeshma & Kunti herself, while Karna was told about it by first Krishna, and then Kunti. Bheeshma knew almost everything - like he knew that Shikhandi was previously Amba, then born as Shikhandini, her marriage to the daughter of Hiranyavarma & then transformation into Shikhandi. Similarly, he knew the facts about Karna.

Vyasa's MB doesn't explicitly state that Bheeshma approached Shalya for Madri's hand for Pandu for that reason. He may well have done that just to forge a matrimonial alliance w/ Madra. But some have theorized that Bheeshma did it b'cos he knew about Kunti's secret, and wanted Pandu to have a back-up wife just in case that secret came out and Pandu was forced by popular opinion to disown Kunti. Of course, Karna becoming the yuvraj of Hastinapur had Pandu never died would have been against the rules, which even Pandu couldn't have broken. Pandu's yuvraj would still have been Yudhisthir, but Karna, like Bheeshma for Vichitravirya, would have been loyal to Yudhisthir. Another option - Karna could have been made king of another kingdom (just like Duryodhan made him king of Anga) but succeeding Pandu would have been out of the question.

One insightful observation above - since Pandu was born from another kanina son of Satyavati, he may well have kept that in mind while judging Kunti - now, thinking about that, I do tend to think that he'd have gone for option 1 - accepting Kunti & Karna - even if he had known about that b4 marriage. However, I still think that Karna wouldn't have been accepted as yuvraj.

A last point - it was pretty well known throughout Hastinapur that Vichitravirya had died childless, and that D, P & V were obtained through niyoga. There were different rules b/w niyoga & kanina/sahoga sons, and that would have brought itself out b/w Yudhisthir & Karna. Of course, Karna, being as generous as he always was, would have been happy to serve Yudhisthir the way he served Duryodhan, while Yudhisthir would have insisted on giving him leg massages πŸ˜†
ssroomani thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#17

Originally posted by: ssroomani



Good question. My feeling is that Pandu would disown Kunti and not accept Karna if he came to know she had had a child before marriage.


It is interesting what you say about Bheeshma knowing about Karna...did he know this when he arranged Pandu and Kunti's marriage? Can you give me the reference to this...I thought he came to know later on...not that early in the story!




I read through the posts and I realize I did not make myself clear, or rather, I misunderstood the question a little. Hence quoting myself! 😳


What I said above is if Pandu had come to know of Kunti's past at the time of their marriage...I mean, before he married her, he would not have married her at all. And if he came to know of it after marriage but before the curse, I still feel he would have disowned Kunti.

After the curse, Kunti gives him hope about having children and at that point of time, he would not disown her but accept her past. I still wonder whether he would have looked for Karna and accepted him...I think Pandu would have preferred to let sleeping dogs lie and not bothered. Karna was born before her marriage to Pandu, so he would not feel the same as he would towards the children born after marriage, even if it was thru niyoga.

I did not know Bhishma knew about Karna at the time of the marriage of Pandu and Kunti...I thought he comes to know much later at the time of the war.πŸ€”

Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#18
Here is what Bheeshma said to Karna when the latter went to see him after the former was nailed by Arjun to the bed of arrows. So he learnt about Karna's secret from Vyasa & Narada. When however is not mentioned

Then Vrisha (Karna) endued with great glory, with voice choked in tears, approaching that hero lying with eyes closed, fell at his feet. And he said,--O chief of the Kurus, I am Radha's son, who while before thy eyes, was everywhere looked upon by thee with hate!--Hearing these words, the aged chief of the Kurus, the son of Ganga, whose eyes were covered with film slowly raising his eyelids, and causing the guards to be removed, and seeing the place deserted by all, embraced Karna with one arm, like a sire embracing his son, and said these words with great affection:--Come, come! Thou art an opponent of mine who always challengest comparison with me! If thou hadst not come to me, without doubt, it would not have been well with thee! Thou art Kunti's son, not Radha's! Nor is Adhiratha thy father! O thou of mighty arms, I heard all this about thee from Narada as also from Krishna-Dwaipayana! Without doubt, all this is true! I tell thee truly, O son, that I bear thee no malice! It was only for abating thy energy that I used to say such harsh words to thee! O thou of excellent vows without any reason thou speakest ill of all the Pandavas! Sinfully didst thou come into the world. It is for this that thy heart hath been such. Through pride, and owning also to thy companionship with the low, thy heart hateth even persons of merit! It is for this that I spoke such harsh words about thee in the Kuru camp! I know thy prowess in battle, which can with difficulty be borne on earth by foes! I know also thy regard for Brahmanas. thy courage, and thy great attachment to alms-giving! O thou that resemblest a very god, amongst men there is none like thee! For fear of intestine dissensions I always spoke harsh words about thee. In bowmanship, in aiming weapon, in lightness of hand and in strength of weapons, thou art equal to Phalguni himself, or the high-souled Krishna! O Karna, proceeding to the city of Kasi, alone with thy bow, thou hadst crushed the kings in battle for procuring a bride for the Kuru king! The mighty and invincible king Jarasandha also, ever boastful of his prowess in battle, could not become thy match in fight! Thou art devoted to Brahmanas; thou always fightest fairly! In energy and strength, thou art equal to a child of the celestials and certainly much superior to men. The wrath I cherished against thee is gone. Destiny is incapable of being avoided by exertion. O slayer of foes, the heroic sons of Pandu are thy uterine brothers! If thou wishest to do what is agreeable to me, unite with them, O thou of mighty arms! O son of Surya, let these hostilities end with me! Let all the kings of Earth be to-day freed from danger!--

'Karna said I know this, O thou of mighty arms! All this without doubt, is (as thou sayest)! As thou tellest me, O, Bhishma, I am Kunti's son, and not the son of a Suta! I was, however, abandoned by Kunti, and I have been reared by a Suta. Having (so long) enjoyed the wealth of Duryodhana, I dare not falsify it now. Like Vasudeva's son who is firmly resolved for the sake of the Pandavas, I also, O thou that makest profuse presents to Brahmanas, am prepared to cast away my possessions, my body itself, my children, and my wife, for Duryodhana's sake! Death from disease, O thou of Kuru's race, doth not become a Kshatriya! Relying upon Suyodhana I have always offended the Pandavas! This affairs is destined to take its course. It is incapable of being prevented. Who was there that would venture to overcome Destiny by exertion? Various omens indicating the destruction of the Earth. O grandsire, were noticed by thee and declared in the assembly. It is well known to me that the son of Pandu, and Vasudeva, are incapable of being conquered by other men. Even with them we venture to fight! I will vanquish the son of Pandu in battle! Even this is my firm resolve! I am not capable, of casting off this fierce animosity (that I cherish against the Pandavas)! With a cheerful heart, and keeping the duties of my order before my eye, I will contend against Dhananjaya. Firmly resolved that I am on battle, grant me thy permission, O hero! I will fight. Even this is my wish. It behoveth thee to forgive me also any harsh words that I may have at any time uttered against thee or any act that I may have done against thee from anger or inconsiderateness!--"

"'Karna said I know this, O thou of mighty arms! All this without doubt, is (as thou sayest)! As thou tellest me, O, Bhishma, I am Kunti's son, and not the son of a Suta! I was, however, abandoned by Kunti, and I have been reared by a Suta. Having (so long) enjoyed the wealth of Duryodhana, I dare not falsify it now. Like Vasudeva's son who is firmly resolved for the sake of the Pandavas, I also, O thou that makest profuse presents to Brahmanas, am prepared to cast away my possessions, my body itself, my children, and my wife, for Duryodhana's sake! Death from disease, O thou of Kuru's race, doth not become a Kshatriya! Relying upon Suyodhana I have always offended the Pandavas! This affairs is destined to take its course. It is incapable of being prevented. Who was there that would venture to overcome Destiny by exertion? Various omens indicating the destruction of the Earth. O grandsire, were noticed by thee

"'Bhishma said,--If, indeed, thou art unable to cast off this fierce animosity, I permit thee, O Karna! Fight, moved by the desire of heaven! Without anger and without vindictiveness, serve thou the king according to thy power and according to thy courage and observant of the conduct of the righteous! Have then my permission, O Karna! Obtain thou that which thou seekest! Through Dhananjaya thou wilt obtain all those regions (hereafter) which are capable of

rasyafan thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#19

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Here is what Bheeshma said to Karna when the latter went to see him after the former was nailed by Arjun to the bed of arrows. So he learnt about Karna's secret from Vyasa & Narada. When however is not mentioned



🀒 it is a sanskrit text not bible why couldn't translator had simply translated in a simple english would have been easier and interesting to read and would have made a lot of sense also.

Who did he think the reader was some ancient BritisherπŸ˜• from 1000s of century before.

Sorry, Vrish, not saying anything to you here even I found this Mahabharat from internet but it is such a put off πŸ₯±

reading though couw thy doth not what not 😑 simply not my cup of tea. I am searching for a mahabharat with a simple language but it has to be maharishi ved vyas's authentic translation
Edited by rasyafan - 11 years ago

Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#20
^^^ Go w/ the ACKs in that case - they are pretty authentic & true to script. If one is translating the originals, then a word to word translation is best.
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