If you believe in God, refute this! - Page 81

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

You may have won the battle vis-a-vis electron decay but I am not sure about the war.

First things first: how did you come to the conclusion that the body is made of electrons?!

K 😛

Haha ..There was no battle ..Remember I'm a believer so I would always promote peace 😆

Jokes apart ... @ Bold: My answer to that would be .. Human body is a conductor of electricity ..Which can't happen without the presence of electrons in it. Then as we all know it is made of approximately 70 % Water ..Which is H2O molecule ..Again made of Atoms ( Hydrogen and Oxygen ) that have electrons .. The the other elements ..Nitrogen , Carbon all are made of ATOM ..Thus the basic element of the human body is electron particles ..And even neutrons / protons..

Now if we consider the protons ..it is just a surmise that they MIGHT decay ..But then the estimated time period for such action is 10^25 X 1.6 Years .. .Protons won't start decaying immediately after a person's death ...Which means a dead body shouldn't shrink to a visibly diminished level within months or years ...Which is what happens ...Dig a grave after a few months and you would find nothing ..Except may be a few scattered bones ..Which also disappear with time 😆 again proton's decay is a mere assumption ..It has never been proven ..

With the neutrons ..they assume that they BETA DECAY and convert to a proton , neutrino / anti neutrino and electrons / positron when the protons are not isolated ..<<< This must not cause Shrinkage .. Neutrons are made of down quarks which only bind to other quarks to create hadrons ... This is conversion from one form to another form ..Again Neutron decay is a continuous process that happens even during one's life time = Inside a living body ..But the body doesn't shrink ..

Taking into consideration the bigger picture ...The body must not shrink ( Immediately as its noticed ) due to either of those processes ...


So human body which has enormous number of electrons and protons and ever decaying neutrons ( Even during the life time ) must not shrink within months because of such phenomena.. There is something else that goes missing for this to happen..Or the particles get absorbed by some other means ..

Vintu 😛

Originally posted by: _Angie_

How about something like this

Angie .😛 ...Gosh ! ... (S)he beautiful ☺️ ...Silky, wavy, glazing hair ...Sparkling white teeth ...A dazzling figure ..and a real enchanting countenance...Pinch me somewhere Angie ..Oh! Please ! 😆 I wanna make sure my dream ( Girl ) has finally come true .. 😆

On a serious note: If return to hades accepts your suggestion and dresses up like that ...Many weak hearted ones at the halloween party might have a massive heart attack ...And hold ya responsible for that ... So keep ready to pay for their ANGIE O' PLASTY you Evil thing 😆 <<<<< Kidding 😆

Vintu 😛

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

I saw the car collision almost instantaneously. Hypothetically, if there's a guy on our Sun, with a powerful telescope and/or measuring equipment, he would see the car collision 8 minutes later. A guy seated on Proxima Centauri, with a powerful telescope and/or measuring equipment, would see the car collision 4 years later.

Hypothetically, if I could travel faster than light, I could observe the same event ("car collision") umpteen number of times from different vantage points in space.

Disclaimer: this is my understanding of how it works. You or anyone else could feel free to correct me.

K 😊

There can't be a dispute over that ..I absolutely agree over that ...In fact I have stated the SAME in my post on page 96 when the question was first put to consideration by Birdie .

The Alpha Centaury system that we can see today is that of the past .I mean the way it was 4.5 years ago ..As the electromagnetic waves that started from there 4.5 years ago are reaching earth now ..So if that Star explodes today we would get to see that exploding 4.5 years from now ..

But to see the events of the past that happened on earth which is our current location in the space ..we must beat the speed of light by many times ...So if we can reach Alpha Centaury in 1 year ..We can see the events that occurred on earth 3.5 years ago LIVE ... The problem is beating the speed of light ..Which sounds impossible today ..Firstly to achieve that...and then there would be questions about what will happen to a human body at such stupendous speed .. Would it energize / transform into a enormously fast wave ? And if it does how do we get that back to the original shape / size / condition immediately after upon Alpha Centaury ? 😆

The simplest evidence of looking back into the past is our everyday video cameras ..We can record the events and can watch them any number of years later ..

The only something that's impossible is ..the intervention / interaction ..or interference ..The events of the past can't be modified ..They can only be viewed ...

My guess is ...A log of every event that occurs in the universe must be present somewhere ..Like when we log on to the servers ..a LOG entry is made in the Audit Policy of the Active Directory .. <<<< This is the key ...If we know how to access that LOG ( If such log exists that is ) we might be able to view every event ...But again ..such logs are View only ...By no means we can alter the events there ... I somehow believe such LOG must exist somewhere ..as it does with all systems ...Even a plane's cockpit has a black box that records everything ...Universe too might have such facility ..The question is WHERE ? 😆

I guess its time to go grab some tucker before I become a a THING OF THE PAST 😆

Vintu 😊

Originally posted by: Vintage.Wine

Human body is a conductor of electricity ..Which can't happen without the presence of electrons in it.


[K] Vintu, that's a bizarre way of saying a human body has electrons. Non-conductors (Insulators) have electrons too but they have a forbidden band of energy levels which the electrons can't occupy.



Then as we all know it is made of approximately 70 % Water ..Which is H2O molecule ..Again made of Atoms ( Hydrogen and Oxygen ) that have electrons .. The the other elements ..Nitrogen , Carbon all are made of ATOM ..Thus the basic element of the human body is electron particles ..And even neutrons / protons..

[K] Maharaj, how can a "basic element" be electron particles?! Terminology please! As you very well know, an element has the same type of atom and depending upon the atomic number has that many protons. I am sure you meant to say "building blocks" or "units" or some such but the word element is reserved. No, can't do.




Now if we consider the protons ..it is just a surmise that they MIGHT decay ..But then the estimated time period for such action is 10^25 X 1.6 Years .. .Protons won't start decaying immediately after a person's death ...Which means a dead body shouldn't shrink to a visibly diminished level within months or years ...Which is what happens ...Dig a grave after a few months and you would find nothing ..Except may be a few scattered bones ..Which also disappear with time 😆 again proton's decay is a mere assumption ..It has never been proven ..

With the neutrons ..they assume that they BETA DECAY and convert to a proton , neutrino / anti neutrino and electrons / positron when the protons are not isolated ..<<< This must not cause Shrinkage .. Neutrons are made of down quarks which only bind to other quarks to create hadrons ... This is conversion from one form to another form ..Again Neutron decay is a continuous process that happens even during one's life time = Inside a living body ..But the body doesn't shrink ..

Taking into consideration the bigger picture ...The body must not shrink ( Immediately as its noticed ) due to either of those processes ...


So human body which has enormous number of electrons and protons and ever decaying neutrons ( Even during the life time ) must not shrink within months because of such phenomena.. There is something else that goes missing for this to happen..Or the particles get absorbed by some other means ..

[K] I am not quite sure where this is all going Vintu. Are you by any chance wondering why the decay happens faster than what particle decay suggests?! Are you by any chance wondering how a body decomposes (biology/chemistry) but mistakenly ventured into particle decay (physics)? If it is the decomposition that set you thinking, may I suggest some fine reading material on processes like autolysis and decomposers like bacteria and fungi?

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Originally posted by: K.Universe.

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Originally posted by: K.Universe.

OK. In this context, space-time is just a set of all events in the universe with each point in space-time representing an event.

In that sense, you are right, space-time is just a representation of the real world. All we have in reality is objects and events. So when talking about "time travel" let's focus only on events and objects.

Say, I am sitting in front of my computer in a Starbucks establishment on Hollywood Blvd., LA and I just witnessed a car collision. First I acknowledge that the event ("car collision") has occurred only when the information about the event reaches me. The information about the event ("car collision") is contained in the electromagnetic radiation from the event. This information cannot travel faster than the speed of light (forget entanglement for the time being)

Now, the information about the car collision is out there. It is emitted outward as electromagnetic radiation. This information now travels in space at the speed of light.

I saw the car collision almost instantaneously. Hypothetically, if there's a guy on our Sun, with a powerful telescope and/or measuring equipment, he would see the car collision 8 minutes later. A guy seated on Proxima Centauri, with a powerful telescope and/or measuring equipment, would see the car collision 4 years later.

Hypothetically, if I could travel faster than light, I could observe the same event ("car collision") umpteen number of times from different vantage points in space.

So, if I want to see the battle between Alexander and King Porus that happened in the past with today as the reference frame, all I have to do is pick a location in space where the information surrounding the battle hasn't yet reached, go to that location in space by traveling faster than light and wait for the information to "show up". That's how I "time travel" into the past, not in the time dimension per se, but in space by traveling to a different reference frame, to a different "present".

Technically, there are places in the Universe which are still "witnessing" the birth of our solar system and technically there are places in the universe where the information about the birth of our solar system hasn't reached yet.

There are obvious caveats of course, even assuming we could travel faster than light. The intensity of the light and how energetic the radiation is, matters. For example Sun isn't as luminous as a quasar. So Sun light will not travel as much distance as a quasar's light does. So information about the car collision might not reach distant parts of the universe for me to "time travel" but that's besides the point.

Disclaimer: this is my understanding of how it works. You or anyone else could feel free to correct me.

Science has got you guys going crrraaazzzyyy !!! LOL

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

but point remains that we cant travel back in time. Just because we might be seeing things that happened somewhere a billion years away does not mean we traveled back a billion years. In every case, whether it's something near or far, what we are witnessing is the past. But that past is gone, and that fact is our present.

That's one way of looking at it.

If you take an event to be at a specific point in space and a specific moment in time, then of course the event occurs only once at a unique place and a unique time in a given frame of reference. You can only observe it (that too hypothetically) and not interact with it after it occurs in that frame of reference.

You could tell me how exactly did special relativity or similar disciplines mislead you there and if that's convincing we could end discussions on "time travel" right after that, without getting into light cones and world-lines.

Originally posted by: Vintage.Wine

Why can't the Electrons / the energy particles keep the person alive ? Is that energy not sufficient ? Which in turn means another energy musta been present when the person was living

We will get to the other questions in a bit but let's knock the easy ones out of the ballpark first.

Yes, the energy is not sufficient because the dead person isn't eating/drinking anymore :)

Technically, no aerobic or anaerobic metabolism going on.

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

Yes, the energy is not sufficient because the dead person isn't eating/drinking anymore :)

Technically, no aerobic or anaerobic metabolism going on.

When a person dies does data stored in the brain like memories, self identity etc get wiped out. Does death mean that our hard disk gets fried beyond repair.

Or does the data still remain. And if it does, what if we electrically hook up a brain? The brain communicates by electric impulses right. Could we potentially hook it up like a computer and access its data?

And suppose we find a way to do that. Can we live forever through our brains. Makes me wonder, if we transplant brains into a computer, into another human being, into a robot - is it still us or will it take a new life and identity.

If it is just us - can we be immortal? How essential is life.Does death become meaningless if our brain and identity can live forever.

If it is not us - then where is the essence of us?