If you believe in God, refute this! - Page 78

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

black holes and such are just mathematical toys, as is spacetime and time travel and the rest of the science fiction we've been using. IMO Our understanding of these phenomena is currently limited to our ability to model them mathematically, much like we model weather phenomena using forecasting models which are often wrong. Physics is about particles, their properties and their interactions, much as one might want to believe physics is math. I think even general relativity theory is a math trick, unless you believe space is really curved. In other words, we still dont have an understanding of the phenomena called gravity even though we can use the math equations to predict it. So let's not suggest that just because we have some math (which we pass off as physics) that we really understand many of the physical phenomena. And historically speaking, nearly all scientific theories have originated from what people once considered as myths. But let's face it- what we have today is a lot of math that is empirically verifiable or testable, so we accept it as scientifically proved, even when they dont have any counterpart in nature. Conversely, just because something is not currently verifiable does not make it false. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it just might be a duck, even though we might not be able to experimentally prove it. Like others have said before, if we are looking for scientific proofs, i dont think we'll get there. So why not come up with our own theories. If folks had dismissed previous myths as "blind speculations", we would have never gotten to the math models we have today, incomplete or unsatisfactory as these might be in REALLY explaining various phenomena.

I completely get the point you are making and I will be the first one to admit that Math will trump science any day! Hawking made a career out of it hardly venturing out to physically observe and so did (do) many theoretical Physicists but I would like to make two corrections to your post:

1. Black holes are indeed detectable based on the emitted radiation and via techniques such as gravitational lensing. They exist in "reality" and not just on paper.

2. GR predicted the curvature of space-time near the earth's surface caused by it's mass. Nasa's Gravity Probe B project proved it conclusively in 2011.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/may/07/scientists-prove-einstein-right


That said, it's a wonder why the Universe is so mathematical. For instance, there is no real reason why the energy mass equivalence should exist in nature in the equation that Einstein gave us but it does and that's really really baffling.

Originally posted by: Freethinker112

Because you were suggesting metaphysics and improvement over current science, calling current science "fiction", and putting metaphysics and science on the same ground?

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

now how about also answering the question- is time travel possible? Will show you why the math and physics we have bought hook line and sinker into is nonsense.

Time travel is possible if FTL is possible.

Even if we could time travel, we will not be able to interact with past events, merely observe them.

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

that's why you need to understand context. Again, i asked a question and you saw "blind speculations" in that? Point is that time and again, you jump from one context to another and then tell others to be precise. Again, i asked a question. Where did you see the blinders?

Originally posted by: _Angie_

I guess the person would be more worried about where he would go rather than how he came to be there. If its a person with faith he may even trust his loved ones to trace him and take him back home. If they dont then it may not be worth going back in any case so why the desperation?
If its a person without faith, yeah, he has serious cause to get desperate LOL

Angie, how can a person who lost his memory even recognize anybody in the first place for him to trust them and go with them?!

I would also like to think that the person's past would be much more important and meaningful to him than his future given he lost his identity. Jason Bourne remains tormented till his past is revealed in full and David Webb emerges :)

Personally, I would like to know what happened 13.7 billions years ago rather than what would happen 13.7 billion years from now but that's just me.

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

I completely get the point you are making and I will be the first one to admit that Math will trump science any day! Hawking made a career out of it hardly venturing out to physically observe and so did (do) many theoretical Physicists but I would like to make two corrections to your post:

1. Black holes are indeed detectable based on the emitted radiation and via techniques such as gravitational lensing. They exist in "reality" and not just on paper.

2. GR predicted the curvature of space-time near the earth's surface caused by it's mass. Nasa's Gravity Probe B project proved it conclusively in 2011.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/may/07/scientists-prove-einstein-right


That said, it's a wonder why the Universe is so mathematical. For instance, there is no real reason why the energy mass equivalence should exist in nature in the equation that Einstein gave us but it does and that's really really baffling.

Originally posted by: Vintage.Wine

<<<<< Zero is always considered as a number so low that the objects existing at that size / shape / dimensions can't be seen ...It doesn't necessarily be exact noting ..But its so low that its always beyond interpretation ..Assumption for the sake of convenience Hahaha ..True that ..Convenience in reaching answers that are just as assumptive and sometime even untrue ..That's what the math is all about ..But Math or it's practitioners don't offer such privilege to other branches of knowledge ..Which is sad ... Who said black holes have no volume? I say so basing my judgement on a criteria : Black holes have INFINITE DENSITY and using a popular math equation which states Density = Mass / Volume ..Everyone knows that Mass is always finite ..So what makes a black hole have INFINITE density ? of course the ZERO Volume ..<<<<< Now who is wrong here ? The Math equation or the Physics that states Black Holes have infinite Density ? Sir ? 😆

Read before posting : Fairy nuff ! But are you telling me this ? Or asking yourself that ? 😆 Cause all I can see is that you have hastily omitted the important words like NON ROTATING <<< in this case ..Where a Non Rotating Star collapses and becomes a black hole ..

I so wish IF had a VOICE facility too ..So that I can read out my posts to you with a proper emphasize on the important words that you usually overlook ...😆

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

Time travel is possible if FTL is possible.

Even if we could time travel, we will not be able to interact with past events, merely observe them.

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

this is why i said earlier that we have pop science that is much like pseudo science. How can anything travel in the time dimension. What would be the velocity? dt/ dt? We get a dimensionless quantity. But that has not stopped even famous physicists from parroting it. I think there's fear at work even in science- no one wants to ask the question because that would be challenging the notion that even GR is only a mathematical construct, and does not have any counterpart in nature.

Well, I don't need to tell you this but just as a background: speed of light is finite even if it is the fastest in the universe. When we see very distant objects, we are in fact looking back in time. When we look at the Sun, we are looking at Sun as it existed 8 minutes ago. I know you know all this.

So if I travel at the speed of light, and if I am an observer located on an object 1 light year away from the earth, I could potentially look at what happened on earth an year ago. If I am an observer and I can travel faster than light, then, theoretically, I could start observing as well as replaying events that occurred on the earth in the past. All I have to do is "jump" to different locations in space to observe what is happening on earth and/or what happened on earth up until now. I could see how life evolved on earth as well as replay events during evolution by being faster than light and traveling to "appropriate" locations in space. That is pretty much the same as time traveling but like I said we could only observe the past, not interact with past.

I am sorry for not understanding the context of "electron decay" but could Freethinker or V.W please walk me through it?