If you believe in God, refute this! - Page 103

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

There, there now. When did I say I pray?

You might need to find someone whose God listens to bribes and grant favors and basically cheats life for them. 😛

Now, that's a God worth believing in! 😛 😆

Originally posted by: Vintage.Wine

Hey Free ..

At least ask the MODS to make this thread STICKY ...So that the GOD'S thread always remains on DM's first page at the TOP ( And people don't lose reference..) ...After all GOD deserves a HIGHER position 😆..Here and Everywhere ...

Oh! Yeah ...and also make sure you ask em to make the Part 2 ..Part 3 ...and other parts that ll follow STICKY too ...Until we end up finding the GOD ...Which ll be never ...😆

Vintu 😛

Originally posted by: Vintage.Wine

Free ... 😆

We obviously can't shrug off that idea like that ...A couple of minutes is all it took for the Newly created Universe to cool off to 3 quadrillion Kelvins ...and hadrons ( Protons and Neutrons ) reacted to form Helium nucleus and the Hydrogen isotope ...The baryons ie: Electrons existed even before this ...without interacting with the hadrons ..The point is 2 minutes after the Big Bang is not a great deal ...Its getting as close to the Big bang as one can ...

This is a proven fact ..I ain't joking here ...😆 ...The deuterium have been found ..which is a material proof of the existence of Hydrogen and Helium seconds after the Big bang ..and there is no reason why we shouldn't believe they existed even prior to that ...And if they didn't they were created in that cranky reaction that took place when the Plasma Soup was blown ...Those 2 minutes are as Crucial as the RYE in the fine Vodka ...What / Who created the leptons ? When quarks is not their basic material ...Can the electrons be created in a laboratory ? If we can ..we can at least proclaim to be Demi Gods ..If not the Gods ... 😆 ...

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

Perhaps, that's the dichotomy that some of our ancient philosophers cautioned us about.

Positive/negative, attraction/repulsion, matter/anti-matter, wave/particle, motion/stillness, existence/non-existence...

As the "Architect" in Matrix pointed out, it's all about balancing the equations :)

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

^^

Hadron epoch preceded Lepton epoch and Quark epoch preceded Hadron epoch.

As you know, electrons, muons, tau and their associated neutrinos fall under leptons. Your point that electrons existed before hadrons is not accurate.

Also, CP symmetry was violated not just to produce electrons but protons and neutrons as well. I am not sure why you are emphasizing the CP violation that produced more electrons and fewer positrons.

K 😛

One can make such assertions if they assumed that the theory was exacted and timed to the second. Baryon genesis itself states that no heavy particles existed before 3
quadrillion kelvins was reached. Only Free quarks and may be Ani Quarks did ..My contention is Electrons not being composite particles and independent of quarks must have been engendered as sheer energy particles during the matter / antimatter collision / interaction ( Or existed even before that in the plasma soup ) . The hadrons though needed multi quark participation. So if we choose to overlook a diffrence of a few seconds / minutes which is only conjectural we can see that the Electrons musta have existed as that energy element that then interacted with hadrons to form more composite material. I say this cause electrons exist ingeniously and do not depend upon the Quarks to form. The interaction with the hadrons needed that bit of cooling which should not rule out electron's existence even before the asymmetrical reaction. The concentrated plasma must have had some form of energy as no movement / blast or whatever seems possible without a viable energy. This is again my conjecture as I'm not going by what's been written. If energy can't be created holds true ..If Electrons has no composite structure holds true ...Both these arguments scream out this fact ..And I'm sure I'm yet to reach a state trippy nuff to hear the sounds behind the silence ...😆

Now to the point : What came first ..The Chicken or the egg / Me or my soul 😆 mightforever remain a mystery for me ( As the difference is only a few seconds and the time span is of billions of years ) . I was wondering if such asymmetry can be created in laboratories with (gastric) plasma...or is it entirely temperature dependent? If such a thing is possible the creation of subatomic particles, at least the heavy ones should be achievable ...😛

Vintu 😛

Originally posted by: Freethinker112

If I am not wrong, electrons come under leptons. And leptons epoch came after the hadron epoch. So no, electrons came after protons and neutrons.And yes of course, the real deal is from t=0 to t=10^-43, the Plank epoch.

As to the matter, I understand it came from energy. And the energy was already there. How this energy was there is the question. Or maybe total is really 0 and it all sums up to nothing. So, we got something from nothing. Disclaimer BTW, last 2 lines were pure speculation.

And about creation of electron, it depends on how exactly do you define it. High energy photon interaction can give rise to electron and positron pair but it is not the creation in the theological sense. You still converted energy of one particle to energy of another particle. But how did all this energy came to be, that is the question.

Free ...😊

I think that was statement / confession 😆 nuff to assume that the believer's have clinched the win ...Now that you have asserted that the energy unknown has always existed ...Now my argument is No one including Sir Edwin Hubble or Sir Arthur Eddington have named that energy. No one holds any patent or right over that ...So allow us believers to call it the GOD .....☺️ ...The disclaimer you have put in is a mere escape way ..and it won't hold true unless you have another possibility in your mind of the occult phenomena that took place 15 billion years ago. The two lines prior to the disclaimer is your real belief ...And I bet you ain't distraught or sloshed nuff to have made such argument for the sake of fun .. 😆

Another point ...in the stupefyingly vast period of inverse of 4.6 x 10^26 cm / 1 x 10^9 cm/sec ...how much value does that 10^-43 period in time hold? I don't think anyone can be dead on predicting the events that took place during such a scant time ...unless they are dead drunk + smoking pot + possessed by some cranky ghost all at the same time ...😆

Cheers to the believers over the most thrilling win against the agnostics ....Hip Hip ...Hurray !! 😆

Vintu ☺️

http://www.uni.edu/morgans/astro/course/Notes/section3/bigbang.html

Big Bang Timeline

Time	Era	Temperature	Characteristics of the Universe
0 to 10-43 s	Big Bang	infinite	infinitely small, infinitely dense Primeval fireball 1 force in nature - Supergravity
10-43 s	Planck Time	1032 K	Earliest known time that can be described by modern physics 2 forces in nature, gravity, GUT
10-35 s	End of GUT	1027 K	3 forces in nature, gravity, strong nuclear, electroweak Quarks and leptons form (along with their anti-particles)
10-35 to 10-33 s	Inflation	1027 K	Size of the Universe drastically increased, by factor of 1030to 1040
10-12 s	End of unified forces	1015 K	4 forces in nature, protons and neutrons start forming from quarks
10-7 s	Heavy Particle	1014 K	proton, neutron production in full swing
10-4 s	Light particle	1012 K	electrons and positrons form
100 s (a few minutes)	Nucleosynthesis era	109 - 107 K	helium, deuterium, and a few other elements form
380,000 years	Recombination (Decoupling)	3000 K	Matter and radiation seperate End of radiation domination, start of matter domination of the Universe
500 million yrs	Galaxy formation	10 K	galaxies and other large structures form in the universe
14 billion years or so	Now	3 K	You are reading this table, that's what's happening.

Originally posted by: Freethinker112

P.S. : I don't know if it is just me but it seems confusing and exciting at the same time. 😆

That's a blessing and a curse, if you ask me.

Blessing because the curiosity will keep you alive. The hunger to know will never subside.

Curse because the answers won't be easily forthcoming.

For me some situations,its very difficult to understand science, then I try religion...!!

Originally posted by: Freethinker112

If I am not wrong, electrons come under leptons. And leptons epoch came after the hadron epoch. So no, electrons came after protons and neutrons.And yes of course, the real deal is from t=0 to t=10^-43, the Plank epoch.

As to the matter, I understand it came from energy. And the energy was already there. How this energy was there is the question. Or maybe total is really 0 and it all sums up to nothing. So, we got something from nothing. Disclaimer BTW, last 2 lines were pure speculation.

And about creation of electron, it depends on how exactly do you define it. High energy photon interaction can give rise to electron and positron pair but it is not the creation in the theological sense. You still converted energy of one particle to energy of another particle. But how did all this energy came to be, that is the question.

Free ...😛

@ Bold: .Exactly my point 😛 ....Now see the Big Bang timeline that K has posted and look at what happened at T + 10 ^-43 s ..and then T + 10 ^ -12 s and see for yourself why I said what I had said..😆 ...Leptons were the early particles ...The only question now is how they came into being ...The asymmetry between matter
and Anti matter ?

I ll get back to this ...Reply to K's post too ..but in a while ...Gotta go feed the rabbits before they start to decay ...

BB after a few ...

Vintu... 😛