Performative Feminism or Misleading Promo? - Page 4

part ii --

so the other aspect of women's rights is obviously law. especially since garv is a lawyer, it will be interesting to see what happens when he maybe goes off the dark end if that is where the drama heads.

when you look at aspects like law, you also have to how our system is set up.

so I watched the episode yesterday -- why did garv give the advice to monica's friend the way he did? nothing about the scene felt unreal to me and I thought it was mostly well done.

now, am not a lawyer but here is what I understand.

personal law -- marriage, divorce, inheritance, adoption -- is community based and depending on the religious group you belong to, there are differences in how the family court will proceed. there is also overarching laws under the special marriage act that govern if the parties belong to different religions.

when it comes to criminal and civil, we have the same code. so monica's friend got slapped by her husband.

any case of violence is automatically criminal offense and once FIR (first information report) is registered at the police station, it cannot be withdrawn. so it has to go through the court system. only civil complaints can be withdrawn at will.

in domestic squabbles, what will happen is that a wife will register a complaint. then, later they make up but she cannot withdraw the complaint. this can cause further friction within the home as the legal system is very slow and there are huge backlogs.

so sometimes, years later, the two will appear in court and the wife will be like, "yea we reconciled and there have been no further incidents of violence" and then the judge will throw the case out.

when garv asked the friend if this is truly what she wants or she wants to reconcile and give it a shot, this is part of the reason why.

many women do change their mind out of pressure or just plain love.

also in general, whether it is divorce or a family dispute over inheritance or property, lawyers will ask "are you sure? do you want to go for arbitration instead" or something along those lines.

lawyers dislike wishy washy emotional reactive clients and so before filing, will ask multiple times to confirm client commitment. they will also outline what are the consequences and what you are essentially throwing away when it comes to interpersonal relationships -- that is pretty standard from what I understand.

so I thought garv was simply being professional when he was highlighting that she had been married for three years. was she emotionally ready to say goodbye? she wasn't.

also, when it comes to issues like slap, there are a range of reactions. for some, only regular beatings are a problem and defined as violence and an issue to be focused. for some, a slap in a heat of the moment is merely a one-off. this is why you see such scenes in dramas at times such as mother-in-law slapping a daughter-in-law.

many people don't necessarily view a slap as violence or a precursor to danger. instead it is seen as reaction to something stressful. this is why garv asked the friend -- what is going on in your life? has this happened before? and she said that husband is under financial strain because of the loss in business and so has been snappy with her but never violent.

there is also the kind of thinking that because we are culturally dramatic as a people, sometimes, we lose our sense in the heat of the moment but it can be forgiven if there is a sincere apology -- this doesn't just apply to domestic disputes but also stuff like brawls between neighbours in a village/community.

in rural based films/dramas, you will see such scenes where the panchayat (village council) will ask the person to publicly apologize and then the matter is closed. this was why the husband kept saying that he will publicly apologize and he is sorry.

in urban settings, the apology will happen within the police station in front of the officer -- this is what have noticed in dramas/movies. I am not sure if this aspect is real but I have seen it in so many movies/dramas that I am assuming that this informal resolution through apology happens in real life.

also, garv went and beat up the guy -- this is to send the message that the friend has family and friends who will look out for her. usually, that kind of intervention itself is a deterrent. when the husband and his family know that the woman is not alone and she has people who will fight, that can be more effective than any law.

I was talking to a lawyer once and she said that most women find the law ineffective because they don't want the husband punished, they just wanted to be treated with respect and be safe. so she has to explain that is not how law works. law is to punish and not a deterrent. so this is why garv gave that kind of law advice to the friend.

when monica asked if garv would react the same way, his answer was an immediate 'no'. my take is that garv is a hothead when it comes to those he loves and can be very vindictive -- in his case, the weapon is law.

You have explained your pov beautifully. Loved it. Garv definitely is a vindictive and hothead when it comes to his close ones. He definitely is a beautiful complex character. Hope the writers dont ruin him.

The promos clearly shows that he has trauma and is unable to control his anger this has been shown repeatedly to give an insight to his psyche . There was no need to beat that guy in his office especially when he himself is a lawyer. He could have handled the situation without violence .

In the recent episodes he has been attracted to Titli. The distraction mechanism used by her in lift and this smile practice is slowly going to make him emotionally attached to her too. She is slowly breaking his shell. He does craves for peace and happiness.

Now this gonna be a reason for him turning over posessive for her as shown in promo which will ultimately hurt her so much as she doesn't have any idea about his true dark side

It's great to read a Mango essay after ages!😊you are right about context and perception. I do not live in India, and barely relate to what is shown in ITV. However, I relate to emotions. I watch the shows, and allow the leeways for I know that it's different in India. Like you said, we have to take factors such as region/caste/community/language etc in consideration.

I am still on ep 6. It's not easy to follow these daily shows. Time is a constraint. I am still behind on KA also!

Originally posted by: Shalzie

It's great to read a Mango essay after ages!😊you are right about context and perception. I do not live in India, and barely relate to what is shown in ITV. However, I relate to emotions. I watch the shows, and allow the leeways for I know that it's different in India. Like you said, we have to take factors such as region/caste/community/language etc in consideration.

I am still on ep 6. It's not easy to follow these daily shows. Time is a constraint. I am still behind on KA also!

kekeke...I was inspired! 😆 @asmaanixx posed such an interesting question for a topic -- I think some MLs are dumb including our KA hero who has currently lost all his marbles, but I have never ever thought if they are faking it. 😂

so yea, knowing how it works here but then trying to figure out how to convey that simply without getting into random rabbit holes was a bit of a challenge but rather entertaining. when you live here, you never really think about how all these factors form the backdrop whether we are discussing political news or random neighbourhood gossip. it is so normal for us that people will have different reactions depending on their context and background.

it is only when you have a topic like these that you realize what a bundle of contradictions we are as a society -- totally forward in some and totally not in others. 😅 thats why I am usually not surprised at how dumb the FLs will turn into a doormat at one moment and then be fighting like a lioness in another.

wish all these posts were shorter but sometimes hard to convey the complexity in crisp note. 😆

are you watching every episode in this drama to catch up? do what I do -- watch the promos and then skip to the latest episode. you will be set. 🤣

Originally posted by: mango.falooda

kekeke...I was inspired! 😆 @asmaanixx posed such an interesting question for a topic -- I think some MLs are dumb including our KA hero who has currently lost all his marbles, but I have never ever thought if they are faking it. 😂

so yea, knowing how it works here but then trying to figure out how to convey that simply without getting into random rabbit holes was a bit of a challenge but rather entertaining. when you live here, you never really think about how all these factors form the backdrop whether we are discussing political news or random neighbourhood gossip. it is so normal for us that people will have different reactions depending on their context and background.

it is only when you have a topic like these that you realize what a bundle of contradictions we are as a society -- totally forward in some and totally not in others. 😅 thats why I am usually not surprised at how dumb the FLs will turn into a doormat at one moment and then be fighting like a lioness in another.

wish all these posts were shorter but sometimes hard to convey the complexity in crisp note. 😆

are you watching every episode in this drama to catch up? do what I do -- watch the promos and then skip to the latest episode. you will be set. 🤣

I intend to watch all the eps. I like the show. It makes me want to know the story.

There is a big disparity in what is being show on ITV and Web shows. As an outsider, I get confused about the real India. I recently watched Jee Karda. It was like watching an American show....do not make the mistake of watching with parents!

I don't mind the length of the posts as you convey the information well. I have a short attention span but I don't get bored. Most of us are here to share experiences and POVs.

Originally posted by: mango.falooda

wanted to write a bit more yesterday but then was tired after having cold meds. sorry in advance if this is not for folks interest.

so there are a lot of factors that go into why women's right and feminism looks different here and why it is complicated to talk about. the main reason is ethnic and regional differences -- these are factors unique to India in some ways. other countries don't necessarily have 700+ languages, a multitude caste/clan/community identifications and a whole platter of political parties.

so any social issue that is discussed in news debates or newspapers or research is broken down in the following way.

say, you are looking at data about female child enrollment in school and the level of drop out -- to understand the data, you have to look at national, region, state, district, taluk/village level. at each division, there will be stark differences and unique factors that impact how it plays out on ground.

-- in national level, you are looking at factors like economics, urban/rural divide, rate of development etc. so region is north, south, east, west generally speaking but sometimes more. there are huge cultural differences between the regions which impact all issues. some women issues play out in some locations and not in others as much.

when you watch a drama, you always know what part of India these characters belong to. why? because the troubles FL goes through will have often certain regional flavours. so when a drama is adapted from one language to another, the makers have to tweak the stories. otherwise, the drama flops.

now titli is specifically set in gujarat background. will that impact the drama and the issues they look at -- we will have to see if they bring in some interesting regional elements into it. not sure if titli is a remake or original.

-- then when you look at data into district and taluk level, you have to look at caste, language, religion, community. then there is history, regionalism and politics that are particular to each state that also impact how things on the ground play out.

so only after all these factors are taken into consideration, can you have a truly meaningful discussion and formulate policies that make any impact.

often these solutions are unique to our part of the world -- such as all women police stations, having women seats on buses and women coach on trains, giving bicycles to girl students, building better bathrooms with running water in schools and mid day meals.

needs identified by these solutions such as access to water, access to bathrooms, access to safe travel become women rights issues. depending on the strata, some will identify more with one need than another and so their definition of what are women issues becomes their own.

this is also why many drama FLs sound so confused and flakey. they can be very passe on some issues and then get bothered about only some aspect.

it is also why you can have varied reactions to ML on a forum:

group 1 -- I hate him! can't believe he is so bad

group 2 -- chill, he is not so bad. he is still good. can forgive na

group 3 -- I have no idea what is going on in this bakwas drama

group 4 (lurkers) -- give me the popcorn. the forum chatter is more entertaining than any drama I am watching. 🤣

breaking up the post because it is becoming too long.

The intersectionality you're talking about it is absolutely apt when it comes to feminism! It never is just about a singular factor as so many different elements come together to form an identity.

You're right about audiences being able to pick up on the regional nuances. I hope the show is able to highlight some of the issues that particularly concern people from this region as it would help to flesh the story out more. Having them say a few words in Gujarati here or there isn't enough to show their cultural background.

When it comes to dramas, I find they don't take certain matters seriously. Let's take the topic of bigamy for example. By law, it is illegal yet it is still practiced in many parts of India. If shows wanted to touch on this, they should highlight the unfairness that is meted out to both women as neither of them is treated with the respect and dignity that they rightfully deserve. For the first wife, there is no respect or honor in seeing her husband bring in another woman as his married partner. For the second wife, there is no legal protection for her as her marriage is not considered valid in the eyes of the law. In both scenarios, they are being wronged while the man is having his just desserts.

Ideally, dramas should highlight the wrongness of these acts and have the man punished for his crimes. Instead, we see the first wife fighting for her "rights as a wife" and the second wife also fighting to even be considered a legal wife. It's just a goddamn mess. In regards to Titli, I was happy that she refused to get married to Rahul but I would have been happier if she had gotten him arrested as that's what they all deserved. What they were doing was clearly premeditated and their failure to trap Titli isn't going to make them stop. If they failed in Ahmedabad, they can easily go somewhere else in India and try again.

Hahaha, I think we're all in Group 2 right now but may easily climb up the ladder to Group 1 depending on what the writers make Garv do. 😆

Idhar humaare paas bohot achhe achhe writers aur analysts hai, jab writer nashe mein doobne lagega tab hum sab milkar tumlog ko script likhne bhej denge😎

Originally posted by: mango.falooda

part ii --

so the other aspect of women's rights is obviously law. especially since garv is a lawyer, it will be interesting to see what happens when he maybe goes off the dark end if that is where the drama heads.

when you look at aspects like law, you also have to how our system is set up.

so I watched the episode yesterday -- why did garv give the advice to monica's friend the way he did? nothing about the scene felt unreal to me and I thought it was mostly well done.

now, am not a lawyer but here is what I understand.

personal law -- marriage, divorce, inheritance, adoption -- is community based and depending on the religious group you belong to, there are differences in how the family court will proceed. there is also overarching laws under the special marriage act that govern if the parties belong to different religions.

when it comes to criminal and civil, we have the same code. so monica's friend got slapped by her husband.

any case of violence is automatically criminal offense and once FIR (first information report) is registered at the police station, it cannot be withdrawn. so it has to go through the court system. only civil complaints can be withdrawn at will.

in domestic squabbles, what will happen is that a wife will register a complaint. then, later they make up but she cannot withdraw the complaint. this can cause further friction within the home as the legal system is very slow and there are huge backlogs.

so sometimes, years later, the two will appear in court and the wife will be like, "yea we reconciled and there have been no further incidents of violence" and then the judge will throw the case out.

when garv asked the friend if this is truly what she wants or she wants to reconcile and give it a shot, this is part of the reason why.

many women do change their mind out of pressure or just plain love.

also in general, whether it is divorce or a family dispute over inheritance or property, lawyers will ask "are you sure? do you want to go for arbitration instead" or something along those lines.

lawyers dislike wishy washy emotional reactive clients and so before filing, will ask multiple times to confirm client commitment. they will also outline what are the consequences and what you are essentially throwing away when it comes to interpersonal relationships -- that is pretty standard from what I understand.

so I thought garv was simply being professional when he was highlighting that she had been married for three years. was she emotionally ready to say goodbye? she wasn't.

also, when it comes to issues like slap, there are a range of reactions. for some, only regular beatings are a problem and defined as violence and an issue to be focused. for some, a slap in a heat of the moment is merely a one-off. this is why you see such scenes in dramas at times such as mother-in-law slapping a daughter-in-law.

many people don't necessarily view a slap as violence or a precursor to danger. instead it is seen as reaction to something stressful. this is why garv asked the friend -- what is going on in your life? has this happened before? and she said that husband is under financial strain because of the loss in business and so has been snappy with her but never violent.

there is also the kind of thinking that because we are culturally dramatic as a people, sometimes, we lose our sense in the heat of the moment but it can be forgiven if there is a sincere apology -- this doesn't just apply to domestic disputes but also stuff like brawls between neighbours in a village/community.

in rural based films/dramas, you will see such scenes where the panchayat (village council) will ask the person to publicly apologize and then the matter is closed. this was why the husband kept saying that he will publicly apologize and he is sorry.

in urban settings, the apology will happen within the police station in front of the officer -- this is what have noticed in dramas/movies. I am not sure if this aspect is real but I have seen it in so many movies/dramas that I am assuming that this informal resolution through apology happens in real life.

also, garv went and beat up the guy -- this is to send the message that the friend has family and friends who will look out for her. usually, that kind of intervention itself is a deterrent. when the husband and his family know that the woman is not alone and she has people who will fight, that can be more effective than any law.

I was talking to a lawyer once and she said that most women find the law ineffective because they don't want the husband punished, they just wanted to be treated with respect and be safe. so she has to explain that is not how law works. law is to punish and not a deterrent. so this is why garv gave that kind of law advice to the friend.

when monica asked if garv would react the same way, his answer was an immediate 'no'. my take is that garv is a hothead when it comes to those he loves and can be very vindictive -- in his case, the weapon is law.

Given Garv's occupation as a lawyer, I hope they delve deeper into marital laws, and the kinds of protection women have depending on the kind of abuse they go through. Titli's ignorance and Garv's knowledge will also present an imbalance in their dynamic as he very well may use the law to benefit him, and not her.

Like you, I'm not well-versed in Indian marital law, but as a society, Indians have always prioritized reconciliation of all problems rather than jumping straight to divorce. In some cases, this method is absolutely viable, however in others such as where physical violence is involved, I don't think this method should be adopted. At that point, it is absolutely important to protect the victim, rather than give the abuser another chance.

"so I thought garv was simply being professional when he was highlighting that she had been married for three years. was she emotionally ready to say goodbye? she wasn't." << Garv was being professional which I agree with, but not the emotionally ready to say goodbye part. When it comes to breakups, whether it's between spouses or boyfriends/girlfriends, not everyone is ready to walk away. But when unforgivable acts occur like a beating, then it is absolutely necessary to leave no matter how painful, or how much time has been invested into the relationship.

Regarding slaps being subjective, this was shown in the movie Thappad as well. Amrita knew her maid was being beaten by her husband but she never said a word about it. It wasn't until she got slapped in public that she took the matter seriously. "Thappad hi sahi, lekin nahi maar sakta" - this should have equally applied to her maid and not just her. The same way she helped herself to get out of the abusive relationship, the maid should have been helped too. True equality is not supposed to be selective.

Tanya's husband wanting to apologize publicly is the first step in the right direction but it won't mean anything unless it is backed by his actions. If he's under stress and acts out again, Tanya cannot forgive him as it will become a pattern that will slowly start to escalate.

Also, thanks for always providing so much context to your responses! It truly gives me a lot to ponder over as there still is a lot that I don't know about when it comes to actually living in India.

Originally posted by: mango.falooda

kekeke...I was inspired! 😆 @asmaanixx posed such an interesting question for a topic -- I think some MLs are dumb including our KA hero who has currently lost all his marbles, but I have never ever thought if they are faking it. 😂

so yea, knowing how it works here but then trying to figure out how to convey that simply without getting into random rabbit holes was a bit of a challenge but rather entertaining. when you live here, you never really think about how all these factors form the backdrop whether we are discussing political news or random neighbourhood gossip. it is so normal for us that people will have different reactions depending on their context and background.

it is only when you have a topic like these that you realize what a bundle of contradictions we are as a society -- totally forward in some and totally not in others. 😅 thats why I am usually not surprised at how dumb the FLs will turn into a doormat at one moment and then be fighting like a lioness in another.

wish all these posts were shorter but sometimes hard to convey the complexity in crisp note. 😆

are you watching every episode in this drama to catch up? do what I do -- watch the promos and then skip to the latest episode. you will be set. 🤣

I'm for one am glad that I raised this topic! All the discussions that are being made so far for the show are just❤️.

Living abroad plays a huge role in not just my understanding of what a woman should be entitled to or what the appropriate response to abuse is, but also in my ignorance of what things are like in India. Seeing things in TV/movies is so much different than lived experiences and before I make my own judgments, I definitely need to delve deeper into how things actually are.

Originally posted by: Ragazza_dolce

Idhar humaare paas bohot achhe achhe writers aur analysts hai, jab writer nashe mein doobne lagega tab hum sab milkar tumlog ko script likhne bhej denge😎

Hopefully unki akal bahut dino baad doobe aur jaldi nahi. 😆