Performative Feminism or Misleading Promo? - Page 3

Originally posted by: aaf311

Interesting view! It's possible that he's a bundle of contradictions, yeah. I would enjoy watching the show if this is what Garv is like, would definitely give him a lot more character and complexity. I don't think that's been touched upon before in itv, so it would be something different.

thanks; I also think it would make the show much more entertaining to watch than a typical ML saves FL which frankly is rather boring. at the very least, all these contradictions would give us a lot to chat about and dissect because he isn't a typical goody goody who exists for the sole purpose of supporting her. so if his role is to challenge her in both negative and positive manner, it will be interesting. lets see -- so far, I think the actor (who I am not really familiar with) has the capability to pull this off. he does not seem to be one note. and generally villains are very one note in hindi serials.

Originally posted by: aaf311

Not sure, but i think Tirv is in use on Twitter

Don't like that name honestly, but i also can't think of anything else lol

bwahahahah... isn't the first rule of shipping coming up with a name that is easily pronounceable? this name isn't even going to spit out my mouth.

Originally posted by: mango.falooda

First of all I am so happy to see you here🤗

like others here, I think it might be misleading promo as I am not sure what to expect out of this drama so far. generally if it is drama that deals with abuse, usually the drama hints at it very loud and clear straight from the start -- the creepy music, the solo shots of the anti-hero/villain. so the audience is aware of what they are getting into. here, so far, we are getting typical serial entry for garv at the moment. at least this is from the few episodes I have seen. (if I can, I will catch up depending on time but most likely not)

Promos are definitely misleading. Actually so far can't make out where the story goes. I am not sure I can continue the show. But yes I do like Garv here somehow he is like ASR of IPKKND. I mean his attitude his personality etc.

that said, back to your question -- I was trying to figure out how to answer your question without getting into some political debate yesterday. in today's context, many of these words are not only loaded but also have different interpretations depending on which political party/ life experience / community / age / culture you belong to. depending on where we are in the world, things are not so necessarily black and white and neither do we have the same definition for these words.

even within India, we have different definitions for feminism. for some, women's rights can mean access to bathrooms, running water (rural backgrounds). for others, right to education. for some right to marry a groom of their choice within the arranged marriage market, for some, it means a love marriage. for others, it is the right to work. then as we move up the ladder, some think partying is a sign of women's power whereas that has zero relevance for many women. for some women, work has nothing to do with rights but just simply a matter of economic necessities -- if they had a choice, they would love to be a housewife.

Here you are so right. We have so may different definition of feminism. All are having their different perspectives. And yes even I do feel some woman doesn't like to work but because she needs money to survive and to run the house she has to do work or job. Otherwise definitely they would prefer to be a housewife.

then, you take in cultural and community values and beliefs, again, these debates can get coloured in various tones and hues. so it is unclear what these words mean and what context someone is referring to.

now back to your question about garv -- performative feminism or misleading promo?

here is my initial impression: I think like many men in this country, he is probably a bundle of contradictions which is what the serial might be going for. to show the break in dreams and a complicated relationship where he breaks one of her wings but not the other. (see the pic)

Woahhh I didn't find it first. I mean about one broken wing. But yes finally now I can see it clearly after you have specified it. So Garv's character is mysterious so far.

I don't find that strange because I have seen plenty of real life examples of such characters in my family as well as society and that includes my grandfather.

my mom and her sisters have complex feelings towards him -- they remember him both with a wry smile as well as facepalm. 😂 the best way to describe my grandfather is that he was what would be called 'orthodox' in some communities. so he had a list of do's and don'ts and restricted his four daughters.

at the same time, he also went against the grain and educated all of them even though he was told to spend his efforts on raising dowry for them rather than wasting it on education. he didn't listen. he was in a blue collar job and that involved some physical labour -- he pulled in double shifts and took on extra work to educate all his daughters; there was literal sweat and back breaking work involved.

his dowry for them was their bachelor's degree which came in handy later in life. this was back in the day when it was a big deal for guys to have a degree that they would put it on their name plate outside the house. so there weren't that many women studying in colleges then. however, other than the wedding, he didn't have any money to give for their dowry and neither could he give them much jewels.

he was domineering but he also allowed my grandmother to work -- this was decades before there was such a thing as a working woman. while they needed the money, none of his peers and friends who were also in the same economic boat sent their wives to work. my grandmother worked and retired as a primary teacher in a government school.

you know the scene in titli where the uncle cries "izzat!!!" when she calls off the wedding? -- well something similar happened in my family. my mom found out that her fiance was already living with someone in a long-term relationship. so she wanted to call off the engagement -- in those days, that was highly scandalous as an engagement was equivalent to almost wedding. people all screamed "izzat!!!", "what will happen to the other sisters?" etc etc.

despite my grandfather being super conservative, he stood behind his daughter firmly -- he was more offended by this fiance and that family than caring about what it meant in society. just like in the drama, the guy's family threw a fit but he refused to go ahead with the wedding.

now, was he super supportive? sort of. when he would get discouraged by the chatter, he would call her "unlucky" and they would have fights. however, he stood by his decision. he was so worried about her future that he took an unusual move for the time -- he encouraged her to apply for a job even though it was in another city; back in the days, when women only left their father's house when they got married.

because of the scandal, my mom's younger sisters got married first. my mom contributed financially to the weddings and he didn't hide her in some corner. she was there present for everything.

even though he could be super conservative, he was highly religious and believed that God had a purpose for his daughters and he wasn't cursed because he had four of them.

personally, I remember my grandfather with warmth as he was very sweet to me but I can understand why his daughters found him aggravating at times. 😂 granddaughter-grandfather relationship is so much different. 😂😂

so I share this to give you the context behind my view -- I think most people would be able to relate as things aren't that black and white for them in the real world especially in India. a guy can be super forward thinking in one area and be totally not in another. it isn't performative -- like many aspects of our country, we are chaos personified and we are comfortable with it.

You have described your real life story so well. I mean one can completely relate with it. And I agree in real life we can see plenty of examples like this. Sometimes I do believe that people are so conservative that they can't able to see what is right or wrong. Whatever they think it's completely right that's enough for them.

Here in the story I can see Garv is so soft towards his Badi maa but at the same time he is on angry mood with his father. What's the mystery here will find out soon. But I am not really impressed with Badi maa. I couldn't get it how Garv is attached to her.

Me in pink !

Originally posted by: aaf311

Not sure, but i think Tirv is in use on Twitter

Don't like that name honestly, but i also can't think of anything else lol

Yeah name sounds weird. Even can't pronounce also 😆

Originally posted by: mango.falooda

bwahahahah... isn't the first rule of shipping coming up with a name that is easily pronounceable? this name isn't even going to spit out my mouth.

I swear 🤣

The only name i could come up with is Gali, not sure if it's better or worse 😛

Originally posted by: Bhavisweet03

First of all I am so happy to see you here

Promos are definitely misleading. Actually so far can't make out where the story goes. I am not sure I can continue the show. But yes I do like Garv here somehow he is like ASR of IPKKND. I mean his attitude his personality etc.

Here you are so right. We have so may different definition of feminism. All are having their different perspectives. And yes even I do feel some woman doesn't like to work but because she needs money to survive and to run the house she has to do work or job. Otherwise definitely they would prefer to be a housewife.

Woahhh I didn't find it first. I mean about one broken wing. But yes finally now I can see it clearly after you have specified it. So Garv's character is mysterious so far.

You have described your real life story so well. I mean one can completely relate with it. And I agree in real life we can see plenty of examples like this. Sometimes I do believe that people are so conservative that they can't able to see what is right or wrong. Whatever they think it's completely right that's enough for them.

Here in the story I can see Garv is so soft towards his Badi maa but at the same time he is on angry mood with his father. What's the mystery here will find out soon. But I am not really impressed with Badi maa. I couldn't get it how Garv is attached to her.

Me in pink !

hey ya! I was looking for something else to watch besides KA. hopefully this one will stick. lets see. I am not finding every episode interesting and so this is the type of drama where I will likely skip and just watch here and there as you can still be up to date. 🤣

but yea, when it comes to working woman vs housewife, people have different perspective. there are some who think being a housewife is demeaning while others want to be one if they can afford it. so it all depends on the family, the woman.

and yea, conservative people just do what is right enough for them. usually just thinking on some practical every day level rather than grand question like "is this woman's right?"

even I don't get why garv is attached to badi maa. I find her so annoying as she says the dumbest things. how does he not get irritated or facepalm when he is a lawyer and so snappy? 😂

Originally posted by: mango.falooda

hey ya! I was looking for something else to watch besides KA. hopefully this one will stick. lets see. I am not finding every episode interesting and so this is the type of drama where I will likely skip and just watch here and there as you can still be up to date. 🤣

but yea, when it comes to working woman vs housewife, people have different perspective. there are some who think being a housewife is demeaning while others want to be one if they can afford it. so it all depends on the family, the woman.

and yea, conservative people just do what is right enough for them. usually just thinking on some practical every day level rather than grand question like "is this woman's right?"

even I don't get why garv is attached to badi maa. I find her so annoying as she says the dumbest things. how does he not get irritated or facepalm when he is a lawyer and so snappy? 😂

I was also looking for something other than KA to watch. And yeah I am not watching whole episode I am skipping and watching it.😆 but wanna give a try to it.

Oh badi maa is so annoying and whenever she comes on screen it's irritating for me also. Lets see how she will treat Titli in future.

Originally posted by: aaf311

I swear 🤣

The only name i could come up with is Gali, not sure if it's better or worse 😛

Gali 🤣 OMG it's epic

Originally posted by: mango.falooda

like others here, I think it might be misleading promo as I am not sure what to expect out of this drama so far. generally if it is drama that deals with abuse, usually the drama hints at it very loud and clear straight from the start -- the creepy music, the solo shots of the anti-hero/villain. so the audience is aware of what they are getting into. here, so far, we are getting typical serial entry for garv at the moment. at least this is from the few episodes I have seen. (if I can, I will catch up depending on time but most likely not)

that said, back to your question -- I was trying to figure out how to answer your question without getting into some political debate yesterday. in today's context, many of these words are not only loaded but also have different interpretations depending on which political party/ life experience / community / age / culture you belong to. depending on where we are in the world, things are not so necessarily black and white and neither do we have the same definition for these words.

even within India, we have different definitions for feminism. for some, women's rights can mean access to bathrooms, running water (rural backgrounds). for others, right to education. for some right to marry a groom of their choice within the arranged marriage market, for some, it means a love marriage. for others, it is the right to work. then as we move up the ladder, some think partying is a sign of women's power whereas that has zero relevance for many women. for some women, work has nothing to do with rights but just simply a matter of economic necessities -- if they had a choice, they would love to be a housewife.

then, you take in cultural and community values and beliefs, again, these debates can get coloured in various tones and hues. so it is unclear what these words mean and what context someone is referring to.

now back to your question about garv -- performative feminism or misleading promo?

here is my initial impression: I think like many men in this country, he is probably a bundle of contradictions which is what the serial might be going for. to show the break in dreams and a complicated relationship where he breaks one of her wings but not the other. (see the pic)

I don't find that strange because I have seen plenty of real life examples of such characters in my family as well as society and that includes my grandfather.

my mom and her sisters have complex feelings towards him -- they remember him both with a wry smile as well as facepalm. 😂 the best way to describe my grandfather is that he was what would be called 'orthodox' in some communities. so he had a list of do's and don'ts and restricted his four daughters.

at the same time, he also went against the grain and educated all of them even though he was told to spend his efforts on raising dowry for them rather than wasting it on education. he didn't listen. he was in a blue collar job and that involved some physical labour -- he pulled in double shifts and took on extra work to educate all his daughters; there was literal sweat and back breaking work involved.

his dowry for them was their bachelor's degree which came in handy later in life. this was back in the day when it was a big deal for guys to have a degree that they would put it on their name plate outside the house. so there weren't that many women studying in colleges then. however, other than the wedding, he didn't have any money to give for their dowry and neither could he give them much jewels.

he was domineering but he also allowed my grandmother to work -- this was decades before there was such a thing as a working woman. while they needed the money, none of his peers and friends who were also in the same economic boat sent their wives to work. my grandmother worked and retired as a primary teacher in a government school.

you know the scene in titli where the uncle cries "izzat!!!" when she calls off the wedding? -- well something similar happened in my family. my mom found out that her fiance was already living with someone in a long-term relationship. so she wanted to call off the engagement -- in those days, that was highly scandalous as an engagement was equivalent to almost wedding. people all screamed "izzat!!!", "what will happen to the other sisters?" etc etc.

despite my grandfather being super conservative, he stood behind his daughter firmly -- he was more offended by this fiance and that family than caring about what it meant in society. just like in the drama, the guy's family threw a fit but he refused to go ahead with the wedding.

now, was he super supportive? sort of. when he would get discouraged by the chatter, he would call her "unlucky" and they would have fights. however, he stood by his decision. he was so worried about her future that he took an unusual move for the time -- he encouraged her to apply for a job even though it was in another city; back in the days, when women only left their father's house when they got married.

because of the scandal, my mom's younger sisters got married first. my mom contributed financially to the weddings and he didn't hide her in some corner. she was there present for everything.

even though he could be super conservative, he was highly religious and believed that God had a purpose for his daughters and he wasn't cursed because he had four of them.

personally, I remember my grandfather with warmth as he was very sweet to me but I can understand why his daughters found him aggravating at times. 😂 granddaughter-grandfather relationship is so much different. 😂😂

so I share this to give you the context behind my view -- I think most people would be able to relate as things aren't that black and white for them in the real world especially in India. a guy can be super forward thinking in one area and be totally not in another. it isn't performative -- like many aspects of our country, we are chaos personified and we are comfortable with it.

Firstly, thank you for sharing your personal anecdote. Hearing about your grandfather and the scenarios you presented also made me more conscious of the way I perceive feminism. Living in Canada, my idea of it would be very different from how it will be seen in India.

I think the show will do a good job of presenting acts and behaviors that will be universally considered to be unforgivable, and ones that could be given a pass. Personally, I would love to see a multi-layered Garv rather than the stereotypical cookie-cutter hero or villain. Let him make mistakes and learn from them.

P.S. I forgot to add about the broken wing - Garv literally broke one of her wings in their second hit and miss meeting. 😆

There, upon seeing the broken wing, he returned it to her with a heartfelt message without her knowing who he was. Then in the promo as well, when the titli is trapped, the caged hand lifts a single finger allowing her to escape. So yes, Garv may be the reason why Titli gets hurt a lot but he may also be the one to give her the strength and courage to overcome her pain and fly again.

Originally posted by: asmaanixx

Firstly, thank you for sharing your personal anecdote. Hearing about your grandfather and the scenarios you presented also made me more conscious of the way I perceive feminism. Living in Canada, my idea of it would be very different from how it will be seen in India.

I think the show will do a good job of presenting acts and behaviors that will be universally considered to be unforgivable, and ones that could be given a pass. Personally, I would love to see a multi-layered Garv rather than the stereotypical cookie-cutter hero or villain. Let him make mistakes and learn from them.

..............

wanted to write a bit more yesterday but then was tired after having cold meds. sorry in advance if this is not for folks interest.

so there are a lot of factors that go into why women's right and feminism looks different here and why it is complicated to talk about. the main reason is ethnic and regional differences -- these are factors unique to India in some ways. other countries don't necessarily have 700+ languages, a multitude caste/clan/community identifications and a whole platter of political parties.

so any social issue that is discussed in news debates or newspapers or research is broken down in the following way.

say, you are looking at data about female child enrollment in school and the level of drop out -- to understand the data, you have to look at national, region, state, district, taluk/village level. at each division, there will be stark differences and unique factors that impact how it plays out on ground.

-- in national level, you are looking at factors like economics, urban/rural divide, rate of development etc. so region is north, south, east, west generally speaking but sometimes more. there are huge cultural differences between the regions which impact all issues. some women issues play out in some locations and not in others as much.

when you watch a drama, you always know what part of India these characters belong to. why? because the troubles FL goes through will have often certain regional flavours. so when a drama is adapted from one language to another, the makers have to tweak the stories. otherwise, the drama flops.

now titli is specifically set in gujarat background. will that impact the drama and the issues they look at -- we will have to see if they bring in some interesting regional elements into it. not sure if titli is a remake or original.

-- then when you look at data into district and taluk level, you have to look at caste, language, religion, community. then there is history, regionalism and politics that are particular to each state that also impact how things on the ground play out.

so only after all these factors are taken into consideration, can you have a truly meaningful discussion and formulate policies that make any impact.

often these solutions are unique to our part of the world -- such as all women police stations, having women seats on buses and women coach on trains, giving bicycles to girl students, building better bathrooms with running water in schools and mid day meals.

needs identified by these solutions such as access to water, access to bathrooms, access to safe travel become women rights issues. depending on the strata, some will identify more with one need than another and so their definition of what are women issues becomes their own.

this is also why many drama FLs sound so confused and flakey. they can be very passe on some issues and then get bothered about only some aspect.

it is also why you can have varied reactions to ML on a forum:

group 1 -- I hate him! can't believe he is so bad

group 2 -- chill, he is not so bad. he is still good. can forgive na

group 3 -- I have no idea what is going on in this bakwas drama

group 4 (lurkers) -- give me the popcorn. the forum chatter is more entertaining than any drama I am watching. 🤣

breaking up the post because it is becoming too long.