Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Love CC#11 - Page 25

Mantra of Kunti was only to force a particular deity to agree to sperm donation. The process of conception, gestation and delivery was the typical natural way for Karna and the Pandavas.

Let's say a woman has to go for sperm donation as her husband is unable to. She wants Virat Kohli's. Why would Virat Kohli oblige her. Let's say her uncle give's her an a contract saying the holder of this contract has the right to get the sperms of Virat Kohli signed and acknowledged by Virat himself to be used as and when needed.

Durvasa mantra was like that contract. However in ancient times Virat wouldn't be able to do the job with the bottle and walk away

He would have to do you know what

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Patriarchal society's obsession with a male heir was what we call as Niyoga.

Medical science has proven it now, but it was always the male sperm thar carried the Y chromesome necessary to have the masculine gender in an embryo.

It didnt need advance science to understand that as my Grandmother used to say. A mango tree cannot give an apple fruit (proverb is In tamil translated here). Society always knew that a woman's seed / egg cannot carry the male attributes. So if those are not present in a child it would always be the man's fault.

Yet a man's ego will never allow him to acknowledge that. Impotency was again another reason that men would refuse to acknolwedge.

In ancient society's a man's inability to have a male child was passed off as curse and women were asked to accept sperms from another male to provide a son that the husband could not by himself.

Sometimes they would use propaganda of boons instead of curse or yagya prasad. (Hanuman as Vayu's son, Ram and his brothers as Yagya Prasad, Pandavas as Mantra Prasad and there are 100s of them in the purana and epic)

Other times kids were adopted and claimed as divine. (Dhrishtadyumna Draupadi, Karthikeya, Sita)

Etc

All the above just to stroke the male ego. As simplest and straightforward and the best solution for childlessness is adoption of orphans.

Halala on the other hand actually strikes at the male ego though it is misused today just like every law is.

Muslim law makes dissolution of marriage for men (Talaq) very easy and women (Khulla) very difficult. To bring some sort of safety /kill switch is Halala. Threat to a man that if he divorces his wife in an impulse and then tries to get her back, he will not. Atleast the situation will never be same as before

A woman has to marry another man and consummate with him and spend six months. During which time if the wife has a change of heart if she falls in love with the other man or gets pregnant and decides to continue with the second husband she will not come back to him. Or even if she does get divorced, she has still been a wife to someone else

There is a Hindi movie Nikaah with Salma Agha Raj Babbar and Deepak Parasar. That describes this concept beautifully. Deepak is the first one and Raj babbar the guy salma starts out doing Halala. But then falls in love.

There is another one Gudiya which shows the negative or abuse of Halala starring Divya Dutta. Based on real story

Awesome post my dear 🤗

I would go one further and say there was no Durvasa boon or deity involved.

Pandu wanted kids, and he put about the divine origin story. Much later, Karna story came out and needed some explanation, so the boon story was introduced.

Sorry, Sutapasima. Didn't intend to tag you. I keep forgetting the new IF system.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

I would go one further and say there was no Durvasa boon or deity involved.

Pandu wanted kids, and he put about the divine origin story. Much later, Karna story came out and needed some explanation, so the boon story was introduced.

Sorry, Sutapasima. Didn't intend to tag you. I keep forgetting the new IF system.

Matlab? I didn't get u. Then who were the fathers of Karna and the Pandavas?

I think somebody had written about Balram's birth also here few pages ago. I think God Vishnu did some maya and transferred him from Yashoda's womb to Rohini's womb.

Originally posted by: Life_Is_Dutiful

Matlab? I didn't get u. Then who were the fathers of Karna and the Pandavas?

I think somebody had written about Balram's birth also here few pages ago. I think God Vishnu did some maya and transferred him from Yashoda's womb to Rohini's womb.

Hear me Roar is right. The father of Karna would most likely be a relative prince who took advantage of the child that Kunti was though had just attained puberty. From whom Kunti managed to somehow wriggle his family heirlooms The armor and earrings.

Similarly Pandavas were born from sperm donated by either Rishis living near the place Pandu lived in exile or relatives, different theories abound.

Pandu's curse and The divine origin of sperm donor was propangada to cover up Pandu's impotency and bolster Pandavas claim to throne as Pandavas were not Satyavati's biological descendents as was the promise given by Bhishma to Satyavati's father. They were legal descendents though but Dury was legal as well as biological descendent. To stoke up Yudhi's claim, sperm donor had to be divine. So that Pandavas could be legal descendent of Satyavati born with the grace of Devatas. The story could explain Karna as well without blemishing Kunti's charachter was added bonus

Mantra story of Durvasa was cooked up to basically to answer the question why would any Deva oblige Pandu or Kunti, what is so special about them.

It was easier and straight forward for Dhritrashtra and Pandu because VV was not impotent. He died. And Bhishma had promised it will be Satyavati's descendents who would rule. Vyasa being Satyavati's son while also being a famous rishi sealed the deal and made it acceptable for citizens of Hastinapur, council of ministers as well as other Kuru relatives.

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Hear me Roar is right. The father of Karna would most likely be a relative prince who took advantage of the child that Kunti was though had just attained puberty. From whom Kunti managed to somehow wriggle his family heirlooms The armor and earrings.

Similarly Pandavas were born from sperm donated by either Rishis living near the place Pandu lived in exile or relatives, different theories abound.

Pandu's curse and The divine origin of sperm donor was propangada to cover up Pandu's impotency and bolster Pandavas claim to throne as Pandavas were not Satyavati's biological descendents as was the promise given by Bhishma to Satyavati's father. They were legal descendents though but Dury was legal as well as biological descendent. To stoke up Yudhi's claim, sperm donor had to be divine. So that Pandavas could be legal descendent of Satyavati born with the grace of Devatas. The story could explain Karna as well without blemishing Kunti's charachter was added bonus

Mantra story of Durvasa was cooked up to basically to answer the question why would any Deva oblige Pandu or Kunti, what is so special about them.

It was easier and straight forward for Dhritrashtra and Pandu because VV was not impotent. He died. And Bhishma had promised it will be Satyavati's descendents who would rule. Vyasa being Satyavati's son while also being a famous rishi sealed the deal and made it acceptable for citizens of Hastinapur, council of ministers as well as other Kuru relatives.

This is interesting very interesting. Do u think the story of Pandu getting cursed by a Rishi that he will die while doing s*x with his wife was fake to hide his impotency? How did Pandu die then?

U people really make me analyze Mahabharat story in a different way. 😃

Originally posted by: Life_Is_Dutiful

This is interesting very interesting. Do u think the story of Pandu getting cursed by a Rishi that he will die while doing s*x with his wife was fake to hide his impotency? How did Pandu die then?

U people really make me analyze Mahabharat story in a different way. 😃

Well, faith is one thing, and analysis of the text another. If you believe, then no matter what someone else says, it was all God's doing.

If you want to analyze as piece of history, then laws of physics and biology need to be kept in mind. So you start looking for alternate explanations. Believe it or not, they're very often stated in the text itself.

For ex, how many times have we heard Panchali was born from Agni? But Vyasa himself said Angirasa was Agni. So she and her brother likely born to rishis of the Angirasa clan. Makes sense from a plot point of view also. Kshatriyas weren't allowed to kill a brahmin. And Drupad wanted a son who could kill Drona if it ever came to an all-out war between Panchal and Drona-Kuru alliance. Basically, Drupad needed a brahmin son to kill brahmin guru of the Kurus. Vyasa clearly knew more about Panchali than Drupad as Vyasa was the one who told stories of her past. So I assume he planted her and her brother with Drupad, foreseeing an alliance between two kingdoms and two rishi clans, all at the same time.

Originally posted by: Life_Is_Dutiful

This is interesting very interesting. Do u think the story of Pandu getting cursed by a Rishi that he will die while doing s*x with his wife was fake to hide his impotency? How did Pandu die then?

U people really make me analyze Mahabharat story in a different way. 😃

Also, Pandu wasn't impotent. He raped Madri eventually and died in the process.

He was probably infertile, so he needed niyoga.

Later, he forced Madri and was killed during the act. I would guess by Madri since she kills herself after, presumably to avoid talk which could potentially harm the future of the 5 boys.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Also, Pandu wasn't impotent. He raped Madri eventually and died in the process.

He was probably infertile, so he needed niyoga.

Later, he forced Madri and was killed during the act. I would guess by Madri since she kills herself after, presumably to avoid talk which could potentially harm the future of the 5 boys.

Another theory is that he had some kind of disease which made sex and consequential physical excitement deadly for him.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Not the same. Nikah halala, as I understand it, happens after a 2nd divorce between the same couple if they want to marry again for a 3rd time. It means the wife has to marry another man after the 2nd divorce, consummate the marriage, then divorce the new hubby, to marry the original hubby a 3rd time.

Niyoga is surrogacy for a father unable to reproduce. The couple doesn't divorce during the time. They remain married.

Not 2nd it's after third divorce. Till two divorces the person has the right to take back the Talaq and no need to remarry. But yes your idea is correct that's what happen after 3rd divorce

His idea actually was Niyoga as misogynistic as Halala because theoretically both are voluntary and depends on female will but these practices make women susceptible to se**ual abuse at home because her FIL and BIL might force them for carrying out Niyoga