Posted:
I mean Kalyavan literally means Black Greek. Yadavas clearly had contact with Greeks. Gargya's Apsara was likely a Greek woman. Indian men's fascination with whiteskinned women started way before Katrina Kaif.
I mean Kalyavan literally means Black Greek. Yadavas clearly had contact with Greeks. Gargya's Apsara was likely a Greek woman. Indian men's fascination with whiteskinned women started way before Katrina Kaif.
Originally posted by: HearMeRoar
I mean Kalyavan literally means Black Greek. Yadavas clearly had contact with Greeks. Gargya's Apsara was likely a Greek woman. Indian men's fascination with whiteskinned women started way before Katrina Kaif.
Who is Gargya's Apsara? Kalyavan's mother?
This is an interesting story.
Garga (surname, given name unknown) was beahmin if Garga gotra and royal priest of Mathura Yadavas..His sister was married to royal priest of Trigarta. So the BIL owing to our poor guy's nerdy behavior and single status assumes the guy is not into women and decides to hit on him. He tries his hand on his thing and when Garga doesnt respond (spurns) starts a rumor that he is impotent. Eventually poor guy gets mocked in Yadava court and Garga walks off angrily.
Now some versions say he did penance for 12 years to please shiva who then sends him an apsara to bear him a son with a boon that no yadava living in mathura will be able to defeat him. Garga gives this child to yavana king to raise and he is the famous kalayavana.(dark skinned greek)
Salwa tells Jarasandha about this guy. Saying bring him to the fight. Krishna living in mathura will not be able to defeat him due to the boon.
For this reason Krishna moves out of mathura as he will be defeated if he stays on in mathura due to the boon to kalayavana.
Other versions have the same story except one change that Garga doesnt do tapasya. Rather he is enraged at his insult for 12 years till he finds a milkmaid and does it with her. Who turns out to be an apsara cursed by shiva to bear his child. Rest of the story is same as above.
However this story does highlight that foreigner kingdoms did interact with kingdoms in the heart of India. These foreigners were fair skinned. And whether they were greeks or rather bactrians we dont know yet.
Originally posted by: Chiillii
This is an interesting story.
Garga (surname, given name unknown) was beahmin if Garga gotra and royal priest of Mathura Yadavas..His sister was married to royal priest of Trigarta. So the BIL owing to our poor guy's nerdy behavior and single status assumes the guy is not into women and decides to hit on him. He tries his hand on his thing and when Garga doesnt respond (spurns) starts a rumor that he is impotent. Eventually poor guy gets mocked in Yadava court and Garga walks off angrily.
Now some versions say he did penance for 12 years to please shiva who then sends him an apsara to bear him a son with a boon that no yadava living in mathura will be able to defeat him. Garga gives this child to yavana king to raise and he is the famous kalayavana.(dark skinned greek)
Salwa tells Jarasandha about this guy. Saying bring him to the fight. Krishna living in mathura will not be able to defeat him due to the boon.
For this reason Krishna moves out of mathura as he will be defeated if he stays on in mathura due to the boon to kalayavana.
Other versions have the same story except one change that Garga doesnt do tapasya. Rather he is enraged at his insult for 12 years till he finds a milkmaid and does it with her. Who turns out to be an apsara cursed by shiva to bear his child. Rest of the story is same as above.
However this story does highlight that foreigner kingdoms did interact with kingdoms in the heart of India. These foreigners were fair skinned. And whether they were greeks or rather bactrians we dont know yet.
Bactrians are Bahliks right?
They supported Kauravas in war, I don't think they can Yavans
However saying that the Proto Indo Europeans lived together (wherever they did) till 3000BCE, they separated later so by 1200 BCE when supposed events probably could have happened the DNA wouldn't have changed so much as one group becomes fair skinned and other dark skinned. It's too less a time for so much change (IMO)
My opinion could be controversial but I think that these episodes were composed around 3rd century BCE to 4th century CE on some event considered historical in that era.
But knowingly or unknowingly the composers could have included things known in that era, the contact and cultural interchange with Greeks that was happening then would have caused the entry of Yavans into the story (like these days movies on Rana pratap have him meeting Akbar, or BRC showed Bheeshm lamenting for having got the partition done, although partition was very common in ancient India, thus episode came because the sorrows of partition of British India was very fresh and haunting to Indians
I am not denying possibility of foreign relations because obviously Balram got Swetdweepi purohit to preach Dharma ,(they could have been people of arctic belt which was covered with snow)
Originally posted by: HearMeRoar
I mean Kalyavan literally means Black Greek. Yadavas clearly had contact with Greeks. Gargya's Apsara was likely a Greek woman. Indian men's fascination with whiteskinned women started way before Katrina Kaif.
I always thought Gandharvas were some different group of people (probably from the regions of Himalayan belt) and Apsaras were females of the tribe
They would have been definitely fairer being from colder regions
They being Greek is something interesting.
Its so bad Indians didn't keep recorded history. We could have known so much more otherwise
Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism
I always thought Gandharvas were some different group of people (probably from the regions of Himalayan belt) and Apsaras were females of the tribe
They would have been definitely fairer being from colder regions
They being Greek is something interesting.
Its so bad Indians didn't keep recorded history. We could have known so much more otherwise
I think
Probably at first Apsara meant females of the tribe Gandharva. Probably Apsaras and Gandharvas were dancers.
But as is the fate of female dancers, eventually their position changed from dancers to courtesans.
Later on Apsara became a synonym of courtesan.
Kalyavan means Black Greek. Now since Garga is not Greek, his mother can be Greek or he was adopted by some Greek. So Kalyavan's mother may be a courtesan from Greek tribe, not from actual Apsara tribe.
Gandharva females were not apsara. They were Gandharvi. Apsara were born to Rishi Kashyap and one of his wives Arishta
AlambuαΉ£Δ, MiΕrakeΕΔ«, VidyutparαΉΔ, TilottamΔ, RakαΉ£itΔ, RambhΔ, ManoramΔ, KeΕinΔ«, SubΔhu, SurajΔ, SuratΔ and SupriyΔ. They were most likely a matrilineal tribe
Eventually the term came to denote beautiful women and powerful women of unknown parentage.
Most Famous ones are Urvashi (Created by Narayan) Tilottama Menaka and Rambha. Other commonly occuring ones are Ghritachi Punjikasthala Adrika
Garga however didnt mate with any of the above. It was an unknown beautiful woman.
There is a 3rd Gargya version. That he was specifically invited by the Yavana king to do niyoga with his wife. For whatever reason, Kal Yavana then kept in touch with his bio dad.
It would make him dark-skinned for a Greek. Hence Kal Yavana.
@FP, DNA won't mutate that much in a mere 2K years. However, proto Ind-Europeans likely had children with prior inhabitants who were dark/light-skinned as the case may be, and the European population stayed white while Asian population became darker. We see this color change in various parts of India. That didn't happen by mutation, either. Happened by genetic merging.
All versions are consistent on the fact that Garga was biological father and Yavana king was adoptive father.
Confusion remains only who this yavana king was.
Some research puts them as Greco Bactrians and quiet a bit as Bactrians. The reason given is yavana kingdom was supposedly on the banks of chaksu river (known today as oxus or amu darya in what was known as bactria in middle ages)
During Gupta period name came to be associated with Alexander and his troops. But Alexander conquered Bactria and assimilated them into his troops before reaching India. Seleucus nikator was the administrator for this region. So it is not unlikely that alexander and seleucus were also called Yavana
A lot of peoole believe them to be Greeks not grecobactrians also.
More research is needed.
I have been reading lot of peoples comments on Instagram that Rukmini putting the tulsi leaf on the scale is a folklore and it was only Satyabhama who had done that. Rukmini was nowhere in the scene. Is that true, gals?
comment:
p_commentcount