Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Love CC#11 - Page 16

Originally posted by: Chiillii

So what kind of warrior was Yudhishtir. Arjun won him Draupadi and Arjun and Bhima fought his wars and won for him.

And it was Yudhishtir who after millions died for him tells Dury let's have one on one to decide the war you pick the one to fight.

And Mahaprasthanika Parva goes whining Draupadi didn't love me more Sahdev' was smarter than me Nakul more handsome and Arjun better warrior and Bhima you ate all my food.

None of you deserve Swarga only I do.

Duryodhan atleast took on Bhima and died heroically.

Y'a vultures that Kripa Kritaverma and Ashwatthama were left him to prey on Pandava children and army

How does that make Duryodhan a loser

I was not comparing with Yudhisthir actually I was saying about Duryodhan individually

@Bold do you think those the vultures were symbolic and not some real vultures who generally attack the dead bodies/immovable people?

Genuine doubt please respond-- because had they been Pandava army/children would Vyasa actually compare them to something as bad vultures? He always used positive words for Pandavas and their supporters!!

Aside if they were Pandavas army/children how did they allow AKK meet Dury and discuss so much, plus Dury actually declares Ashwathama as the next CIC(I doubt he had any army to command but whatever), shouldn't then Pandavas children realize that this war still not over as they had thought?

Just asking for your view

Off topic people, recently read a book which quotes AL Bareuni that Duryodhan had shifted 1000 Brahmins all well versed in different subjects in the area of Takshila with their family and requested them impart education to deserving who approached and promised them royal patronage

Although this seems remotely possible because definitely this doesn't come in any other text, plus the region of Takahashila wasn't under his control, but AL Bareuni wouldn't have written something without any reference or a major hearsay of that time.

If true then could this be the seeds of the Takshila University(obviously it wasn't one then but maybe became so after centuries)? We probably might have something to thank Duryodhan for

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Chapter 1250(31)

...

“Yudhisthira said, ‘O Suyodhana! It is through good fortune that you have learnt about the dharmaof kshatriyas. O great-armed one! It is through good fortune that your mind has turned towardsfighting. O Kouravya! It is good fortune that you are brave and it is good fortune that you know aboutfighting, since you have single-handedly decided to engage all of us in an encounter. Fight with usone at a time, with whatever weapon you wish. While you fight thus, all the others will remain as

spectators. O brave one! I am also granting your desire. If you kill any one of us, the kingdom will beyours. Otherwise, be slain and obtain heaven.’

...

‘ “Yudhishthira replied, ‘O Suyodhana! Where did this wisdom of yours disappear, when manymaharathas united and slew Abhimanyu in the battle? O brave one! Don armour and tie your hair. Odescendant of the Bharata lineage! Take everything else that you need. O brave one! I will grant youanother of your wishes. If you can kill any of the five Pandavas with whom you wish to fight, you willbe king. Otherwise, be slain and obtain heaven. O brave one! With the exception of your life in battle,what else do you desire?’”

...

Chapter 1251(32)

...

Vasudeva angrily spoke these words toYudhishthira. ‘O Yudhishthira! In this encounter, if he had named you, Arjuna, Nakula or Sahadeva,what would have happened? O king! How could you show rashness like this? “If you can kill any oneof us, you will be king!” O king! With the desire of killing Bhimasena, for thirteen years he haspractised against a man made out of iron.22 O bull among the Bharata lineage! How will our task beaccomplished? O supreme among kings! Because of compassion, you have committed an act ofrashness. With the exception of Vrikodara, I do not see anyone who can fight against him in theencounter and Partha has not made a great deal of effort.23 O lord of the earth! It is almost as if theancient and unequal gambling match between you and Shakuni is being enacted again. Bhima ispowerful and capable, but King Suyodhana is accomplished. O king! When there is a contest betweenstrength and skill, skill is always superior. O king! You have placed such an enemy on an even path.You have also placed us in an extremely difficult and hazardous state. Having vanquished all theenemies and with only a single foe remaining, who desires to give that up in a single act ofgambling? I do not see the man in this world who can fight, with a club in his hand in an encounter,against Duryodhana, supreme among men, especially because he is skilled. With a club in the hand ina battle, I do not think Phalguna, Madri’s sons or you are capable. How did you tell the enemy to fightwith a club? “O descendant of the Bharata lineage! If you kill any one of us, you will be the king!”Even if Vrikodara fights against him, our victory is not certain, especially not in a fair encounter. Heis

...

Chapter 1276(57)

“On seeing the clash between the two foremost ones of the Kuru lineage, Arjuna spoketo the illustrious Vasudeva. ‘Between those two brave ones who are fighting, who do you think issuperior? O Janardana! Who possesses the greater qualities? Tell me.’‘ “Vasudeva replied, ‘They are equal in what they have learnt, but Bhima is stronger. However,Dhritarashtra’s son is superior to Vrikodara because of the efforts that he has undertaken. Usingdharma, Bhimasena will not be able to win this encounter. He will be able to kill Suyodhana only if hefights through unfair means. It has been heard that the gods defeated the asuras through the use ofmaya. The slayer of Bala robbed Vritra of his energy through maya. O Dhananjaya! At the time ofgambling with the dice, Bhima took a pledge that in the encounter, he would shatter Suyodhana’sthighs with a club. This destroyer of enemies needs to accomplish that pledge. The king uses maya31and has to be brought down through maya. If he uses his strength and fights through fair means, KingYudhishthira will face a hardship. O Pandava! I am saying this again. Listen to me. It is because ofDharmaraja’s transgression that this fear has again confronted us. Having performed the great deedof slaying the Kurus, with Bhishma as the leader, he had obtained victory and fame and an end to theenmity with the adversary. However, having obtained the victory, he has once again placed himself ina situation of uncertainty. O Pandava! This has been great stupidity on Dharmaraja’s part. He hasstaked the entire victory on the outcome of a single encounter. extremely strong and skilled.’

But this text doesn't mention Duryodhan selecting Bheem as his opponent it's about original promise of Yudhisthir and later the fight. Don't we have any text mentioning Duryodhan asking for Bheem as his opponent?

Good and bad were done on both sides. If we remember Dusshasan assaulting Draupadi then we must also remember Arjuna beheading Takshak's wife while she was trying to save her son Ashwasen from Arjun.

If we remember Lakshagriha conspiracy of Duryodhan we must also remember that pandavas set fire to the lac palace after knowing that they have an innocent Nishada woman with her 5 sons inside to provide a corpse for them.

If we remember Bhima poisoning we must also remember the genocide of entire Naga tribe that Janmejaya attempted for taking revenge for Takshak killing his father in an enmity that Janmejaya's great grandfather Arjun started by killing Takshak's wife and son.

Duryodhan was evil but not a loser. Yudhishtir was loser literally not just in Dyut Sabha but a sore loser till the very end

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Hmm true

They actually gave rules from Arthashastra that the family wealth is inherited by the eldest son of the eldest son unless this person has any deformity (it's not about capability and obviously we know Duryodhan wasn't less capable an administrator than Yudhisthir)

Aside they said that one who sits on the throne is the king, king regents aren't allowed on throne(while answering someone who said that Dhritrashtra was made king for time being in absence of the real king without any ritual).

(I personally think that this was then probably the reason why Bharat denied sitting on the throne while administrating the kingdom independently, probably he wanted to avoid such confusions later)

There were other rules too that they got, but obviously it was their view, many of us have different view and even they asked us judge for ourselves (I haven't completely read Arthashastra so can't comment as of now)

However our discussions here and then their explanations so make me wonder

Sometimes I do feel was Duryodhana really the biggest of all times? Or was he just the biggest looser made into the villain. May be he was just trying to get his own kingdom for himself

Yes obviously I don't get too much into it. My statement was partially to appreciate the writer of the epic who made it such that even after multiple iterations we still feel connected to the characters and that too after ages of its composition

BOLD - even i think that at times, he was just fighting for what's his all the time and maybe he was surrounded by the wrong people, in the sense people who just manipulated him for bad doings?? This thought does come at times when i try to think of him as someone who wanted the throne :)

Originally posted by: RainFire125

BOLD - even i think that at times, he was just fighting for what's his all the time and maybe he was surrounded by the wrong people, in the sense people who just manipulated him for bad doings?? This thought does come at times when i try to think of him as someone who wanted the throne :)

I agree Duryodhan claiming that his father is the current king therefore its his right to be the king was not wrong. Yes he was spoiled and was moulded to be an evil person by his shakuni mama from his childhood but he and his brothers are the results of bad parenting. Whatever happened with them it's also because of their parents negligence. I won't defend his actions but there was no one in his life to show him the right path since his childhood.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Off topic people, recently read a book which quotes AL Bareuni that Duryodhan had shifted 1000 Brahmins all well versed in different subjects in the area of Takshila with their family and requested them impart education to deserving who approached and promised them royal patronage

Although this seems remotely possible because definitely this doesn't come in any other text, plus the region of Takahashila wasn't under his control, but AL Bareuni wouldn't have written something without any reference or a major hearsay of that time.

If true then could this be the seeds of the Takshila University(obviously it wasn't one then but maybe became so after centuries)? We probably might have something to thank Duryodhan for

Was not the region of Taxila under Shakuni's control?

During Karna Shalya convo in Karna Parva

Karna was badmouthing about the regions of in and around Shalya (Sibbi, Madra, Kekeya, Sindhu, Ghandhar) etc. Calling them Adharmi and those who lack the knowledge of Dharma

Incidentally those were the areas which were the first to fall during Islamic invasions and are now in Pakistan/Afghanistan completely out of Dharmic fold

Can we assume that Karna was able to see the future😄😄😄

I know bad joke and cheap conspiracy theory

Originally posted by: vyapti

Was not the region of Taxila under Shakuni's control?

Was it? I am not actually sure, pretty bad with maps of ancient times, especially of the areas in Pakistan, wo sab ek jaise lagte hain mujhe

If it was so, Duryodhan could have definitely got some Brahmin families established there considering Shakuni had soft corner for him, and he wouldn't have stopped Duryodhan from doing this

Now I want to learn more about it. Could really the seeds of Takshila University have been sowed by Duryodhan

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Was it? I am not actually sure, pretty bad with maps of ancient times, especially of the areas in Pakistan, wo sab ek jaise lagte hain mujhe

If it was so, Duryodhan could have definitely got some Brahmin families established there considering Shakuni had soft corner for him, and he wouldn't have stopped Duryodhan from doing this

Now I want to learn more about it. Could really the seeds of Takshila University have been sowed by Duryodhan

Don't know actually. But is not Ambhi (the king of Taxila during Chanakya times) also called king of Gandhara in TV Shows? Can't remember correctly though.

Gandhara is Kandahar of present times. It is in Afganistan.