Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Love CC#11 - Page 13

Actually found in CE, Krishna doesn't say all those things about Ghato. Only that Katrna's weapon needed to be used up.

CHAPTER 1132(155)‘Sanjaya said, “On seeing that Hidimba’s son had been killed, like a shattered mountain, allthe Pandavas were distressed in their minds and their eyes were full of tears. However,Vasudeva was overcome with great delight. O descendant of the Bharata lineage! He roaredlike a lion and this pained them. He roared loudly and embraced Phalguna. Roaring loudly,he tied the horses. He danced in joy, like a tree stirred by the wind. Having embraced Parthayet again, he slapped his arms against his breast. Achyuta climbed onto the chariot and letout a fierce yell. O king! On discerning that the immensely strong Vasudeva was in adelighted frame of mind, Arjuna was miserable and spoke to him. ‘O Madhusudana! At thistime of death today, you are extremely happy. The death of Hidimba’s son is a time for greatsorrow. On seeing that Ghatotkacha has been killed, the soldiers are retreating. SinceHidimba’s son has been brought down, we are also extremely anxious. O Janardana! Theremust be a grave reason behind your delight now. O supreme among the ones who aretruthful! I am asking you. Tell me the truth. O scorcher of enemies! If it is not a secret, youshould tell me. O Madhusudana! Tell me why your calm has been disturbed so much today.This is like the ocean drying up, or Mount Meru moving. O Janardana! I think that this act ofyours shows levity.’‘“Vasudeva replied, ‘O Dhananjaya! I am overcome by great delight. Listen to me. I will tellyou what will bring supreme satisfaction to your mind. O immensely radiant one! Because ofGhatotkacha, the spear has been used up. O Dhananjaya! Therefore, know that Karna hasalready been slain. Had Karna possessed the spear in his hand, no man in the world wouldhave been able to stand before him. He would have been stationed like Kartikeya in the

battle. It is through good fortune that his armour has gone. It is through good fortune that hisearrings have been robbed. It is through good fortune that the invincible spear has been usedup on Ghatotkacha. Had he possessed the armour and had he possessed the earrings, thepowerful Karna would have been able to defeat everyone in the three worlds, even theimmortals. Vasava, Kubera, Varuna, lord of the waters, and Yama would not have venturedagainst Karna in an encounter. Had that bull among men possessed those, you with yourGandiva and I with my sudarshana chakra would not have had the capacity to defeat him in abattle. It is for your welfare that Shakra used delusion to rob him of his earrings. Theconqueror of enemy cities was also robbed of his armour. It is because he sliced off thearmour and the sparkling earrings and gave them to Shakra that Karna came to be known asVaikartana.1 Karna is now like an angry snake, whose energy has been sapped throughmantras. Therefore, Karna is now like a fire whose flames have been pacified. O mighty-armed one! Karna obtained a spear from the great-souled Vasava, the one that has now beenused against Ghatotkacha. This was obtained in exchange for the earrings and the celestialarmour. Since the time he obtained it, Vrisha has always thought that you have been killed inthe battle. O unblemished one! O tiger among men! However, though that spear has nowgone, I swear to you truthfully that he is incapable of being killed by anyone other than you.He is devoted to brahmanas. He is truthful. He has engaged in austerities. He is devoted to hisvows. He is compassionate towards his enemies. It is for these reasons that Karna is known asVrisha.2 He is terrible in battle. He is mighty-armed. His bow is always raised. He is like alion in the forest, crushing the leaders of crazy herds of elephants. In the field of battle, hecrushes tigers among the rathas. He is like the sun when it has attained midday and no one iscapable of looking at him. O tiger among men! He has fought with all the foremost and great-souled ones on your side. His nets of arrows are like the thousand rays of the autumn sun. Hisincessant shower of arrows is like rain from the clouds, at the end of summer. Karna is like acloud with divine weapons, showering down rain. However, having been deprived today ofwhat was given to him by Shakra, he has become human. There is now an opportunity to killhim, one that the insolent one has brought about through his own insolence. He will face ahardship when the wheel of his chariot sinks. That is the time to kill him and I will signal themoment to you in advance. Jarasandha, the great-souled king of Chedi, the immensely strongEkalavya from Nishadha—all of these have been killed through my yoga, for your sake.3Later, other Indras among rakshasas have been killed—Hidimba, Kirmira, Baka, the foremostamong them, Alayudha, the destroyer of enemy soldiers, and the spirited Ghatotkacha, theperformer of fierce deeds.’”’CHAPTER 1133(156)‘“Arjuna asked, ‘O Janardana! What objective of ours was served and what yoga did you use?How were Jarasandha and the other lords of the earth killed?’‘“Vasudeva replied, ‘If Jarasandha, the king of Chedi and the immensely strong Nishadha4had not been killed earlier, they would have become terrible now. There is no doubt that

Suyodhana would have chosen those supreme among rathas

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

He didn't mention it as per critical edition. Only in KMG.

CE, Vol 7

Chapter 1217(67)

Sanjaya said, “Vasudeva was stationed on his chariot. He said, ‘O Radheya! It is fortunate that youremember dharma. Quite often, when they are immersed in hardships, inferior ones censure destiny,but not their evil deeds. O Karna! When you, Suyodhana, Duhshasana and Shakuni Soubala broughtDroupadi to the assembly hall in a single garment, did dharma not show itself to you? When, in theassembly hall, Yudhishthira, who was not skilled at dice, was defeated by Shakuni, who was skilled atdice, where did dharma go then? O Karna! During her season, Krishna798 was under Duhshasana’ssubjugation in the assembly hall and you laughed at her. Where did dharma go then? O Karna!Resorting to the king of Gandhara and coveting the kingdom, you challenged the Pandavas.799Where did dharma go then?’ When Vasudeva addressed Radheya in this way, Pandava Dhananjayaremembered all this and was overcome by great rage. Energetic flames of anger seemed to issue outfrom all the pores on his body and it was extraordinary.

Krishna mentioned 4 things. 1) When the evil quartet dragged Panchali into the dice hall 2) When Yudhishtira was defeated. 3) When Dusshasan was assaulting her, and Karna was laughing. 4) The conspiracy with Shakuni.

KMG has sanitized a lot of things. For ex, CE straight up says Panchali was the Lakshmi avatar. There is not even a mention of Rukmini as Lakshmi in the advamshavatarana section. Panchali is mentioned again as Lakshmi when Arjun runs into her at the lotus lake before swayamvar.

I don't believe in avatars, etc. Pointing out what Vyasa said is not what KMG translated.

There is another section which is translated by KMG as cheekbones. I've posted here before.

Yudhishtira is trying to needle Krishna and asks why is this guy Arjun always so miserable?

Krishna tries to avoid snapping, but Yudhishtira presses.

Finally, Krishna says Arjuna is unhappy because he is the one who always has to fight. he is the one who has to fight because he is the one with the big *male plumbing* (IF will ban me if I use real word). KMG translated it to cheekbones. Completely ruined the comedy in the scene.

Yes CE doesn't mention Karna being the one on whose suggestion Duryodhan poisoned Bheem

That I think was a wrong blame we gave him.

This does make sense because Dury and karna became friends in Drona Ashram before that he wouldn't have been anyone important that Dury will listen to his advice

The usage of Shakti Astra seems uselessly overrated to me. Karna had Shakti Astra for years and he repeatedly lost to Arjun

Virat war he had to run away 3-4 times, he has ShaktiAstra then, ok giving a benefit of doubt that Karna wasn't sure that Brihanlalla is Arjun and didn't want to waste the ShaktiAstra on Brihanalala

Jayadrath protection again he was inside and had a minor combat with Arjun and lost, he had his Shakti Astra then, again giving a benefit of doubt that he might have though that they will protect Jaidrath and hence Arjun will commit suicide so why waste ShaktiAstra on someone who is going to die anyway

That night again Arjun and Karna had a major combat (he still had ShaktiAstra Ghato vadh is a few hours away) Arjun literally shatters Karna, breaks his chariot and finally he had to be taken away in Kripacharya's chariot. This time no benefit of doubt can be given to Karna if he wanted to kill Arjun by that

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

The usage of Shakti Astra seems uselessly overrated to me. Karna had Shakti Astra for years and he repeatedly lost to Arjun

Virat war he had to run away 3-4 times, he has ShaktiAstra then, ok giving a benefit of doubt that Karna wasn't sure that Brihanlalla is Arjun and didn't want to waste the ShaktiAstra on Brihanalala

Jayadrath protection again he was inside and had a minor combat with Arjun and lost, he had his Shakti Astra then, again giving a benefit of doubt that he might have though that they will protect Jaidrath and hence Arjun will commit suicide so why waste ShaktiAstra on someone who is going to die anyway

That night again Arjun and Karna had a major combat (he still had ShaktiAstra Ghato vadh is a few hours away) Arjun literally shatters Karna, breaks his chariot and finally he had to be taken away in Kripacharya's chariot. This time no benefit of doubt can be given to Karna if he wanted to kill Arjun by that

When did Indra take away his Kavach Kundal? Before Virata war? I thought It was after Virata war.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

I hate Mahabharat.

I mean I know it's just an epic and even if true it happened thousands of years back and everything is fixed

But still when I come to certain portions I just feel like entering into the scene and like reversing it. Only in war Parvas I so feel bad at

Ghatochkach Vadh

Abhimanyu Vadh

Vrishsen Vadh

Massacre on 18th night

Deception by Yudhisthir to Drona

Even Jaidrath vadh often I feel like going to him and asking to immediately leave for SindhuDesh don't believe in the promises of these loosers

Doing a course on mahabharat by BORI these days and everyday I feel sad about something I already knew

I don't know who all I have tagged but mostly everyone I discussed hours

Are you doing a professional course on it? Thats cool

Death brings misery so it is understandable why you feel this way

Originally posted by: vyapti

When did Indra take away his Kavach Kundal? Before Virata war? I thought It was after Virata war.

In the Aranakya(Van) Parva itself

It should 9-10th year of the Vanwsas

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Are you doing a professional course on it? Thats cool

Death brings misery so it is understandable why you feel this way

Not a professional course you could say online Certification courses

BORI is conducting various courses on Indian heritage

Did one on Vedas and ancient Indian astronomy

Now they have started with one on 18 parvan of mahabharat

They explain the acts indologists views etc (by the way according to them Duryodhan had the first and most solid claim on the throne and he was the only one in the entire epic who behaved as a king)

Yes that's true dear. Somehow we have entered so much into their personal space that it seems like they are some friends or close relatives) so their sorrow affects a lot. Especially of the people who deserved more and better

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Not a professional course you could say online Certification courses

BORI is conducting various courses on Indian heritage

Did one on Vedas and ancient Indian astronomy

Now they have started with one on 18 parvan of mahabharat

They explain the acts indologists views etc (by the way according to them Duryodhan had the first and most solid claim on the throne and he was the only one in the entire epic who behaved as a king)

Yes that's true dear. Somehow we have entered so much into their personal space that it seems like they are some friends or close relatives) so their sorrow affects a lot. Especially of the people who deserved more and better

@Bold

He was son of the reigning King, His father was first born and if he could rule after Pandu's death, he could rule before too

All the best for you course, do try to distract yourself when it gets too much

Originally posted by: NoraSM

@Bold

He was son of the reigning King, His father was first born and if he could rule after Pandu's death, he could rule before too

All the best for you course, do try to distract yourself when it gets too much

Hmm true

They actually gave rules from Arthashastra that the family wealth is inherited by the eldest son of the eldest son unless this person has any deformity (it's not about capability and obviously we know Duryodhan wasn't less capable an administrator than Yudhisthir)

Aside they said that one who sits on the throne is the king, king regents aren't allowed on throne(while answering someone who said that Dhritrashtra was made king for time being in absence of the real king without any ritual).

(I personally think that this was then probably the reason why Bharat denied sitting on the throne while administrating the kingdom independently, probably he wanted to avoid such confusions later)

There were other rules too that they got, but obviously it was their view, many of us have different view and even they asked us judge for ourselves (I haven't completely read Arthashastra so can't comment as of now)

However our discussions here and then their explanations so make me wonder

Sometimes I do feel was Duryodhana really the biggest of all times? Or was he just the biggest looser made into the villain. May be he was just trying to get his own kingdom for himself

Yes obviously I don't get too much into it. My statement was partially to appreciate the writer of the epic who made it such that even after multiple iterations we still feel connected to the characters and that too after ages of its composition

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Hmm true

They actually gave rules from Arthashastra that the family wealth is inherited by the eldest son of the eldest son unless this person has any deformity (it's not about capability and obviously we know Duryodhan wasn't less capable an administrator than Yudhisthir)

Aside they said that one who sits on the throne is the king, king regents aren't allowed on throne(while answering someone who said that Dhritrashtra was made king for time being in absence of the real king without any ritual).

(I personally think that this was then probably the reason why Bharat denied sitting on the throne while administrating the kingdom independently, probably he wanted to avoid such confusions later)

There were other rules too that they got, but obviously it was their view, many of us have different view and even they asked us judge for ourselves (I haven't completely read Arthashastra so can't comment as of now)

However our discussions here and then their explanations so make me wonder

Sometimes I do feel was Duryodhana really the biggest of all times? Or was he just the biggest looser made into the villain. May be he was just trying to get his own kingdom for himself

Yes obviously I don't get too much into it. My statement was partially to appreciate the writer of the epic who made it such that even after multiple iterations we still feel connected to the characters and that too after ages of its composition

Arthashastra manusmriti etc are all pretty clear on inheritance

If two sons eldest gets family name and half of the property. While younger gets second half.

If three sons then eldest gets family name and half while remaining two sons get 1/4 each.

If more than 3 sons then again eldest gets half and family name while remaining sons get equal portion of remaining half.

Daughters do not get a share in wealth

A man is supposed to earn and keep aside 1/5 of wealth for taxes, 1/5 of wealth for charity. But if he had a daughter then the 1/5 of wealth kept for charity was to be given to daughter's husband during marriage (the root cause of dowry problem in India)

Remember Rama the Purshottam rule follower divided the kingdom into 2 and gave half each to lava and kusa.

If eldest takes the entire property then he has to accept his younger brothers as his son it becomes his responsibility to earn and arrange for wealth for all his brothers. Rama when he became King of Ayodhya he gave the territory conquered from Tadaka to Lakshmana, since Bharat recieved maternal kingdom as inheritance Rama gave his army to Shatrughana to conquer Mathura and take it over.

So Duryodhan never had full rights on Hastinapur as per Arthashastra and manusmriti he only had half. Remember Yudhishtir had 5 brothers who lived with him as his sons. Draupadi as common wife prevented the split in IP or brothers moving out to become kings

The problem in case of Yudhishtir and Duryodhan was that Pandu had been King and Dhritrashtea was never made a king and Yudhishtir was older.

A split would have happened in HP even if Pandu lived where after Duryodhan was born Pandu would have had to give him half of kuru territory.

The above is as per Arthashastra.

Chandravanshi followed a different rule.

King decides the next king. Whether it was his eldest son or younger or adopted. This was so from the time of Yayati. Yayati chose the third son. Bharat adopted. Santanu was youngest son.

Pandu died without declaring Yudhishtir Yuvaraj. Bhishma Drona Kripacharya (the elders of family didn't want him to be Yuvaraj they wanted Duryodhan. They hoped Pandu would adopt Dury. But Pandu did Niyoga because he didn't want Dhritrashtra's son.) hence the fight.