Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Love CC#10/DT Nt Pg#41 - Page 24

Suka Rishi is son of Vyasa and apsara Ghritachi. Parikshit is grandson of Arjuna to whom Bhagvatham or popularly known as Srimad Bhagvatham is recited..

It is a devotional text - bhagvatham means story of Bhagavan. Here it means Krishna.

All the texts be it Mahabharat or Bhagvatham or Harivansh or Purana were written down during the Gupta period.

All texts have heavy interpolations, and Bhandarkar institute had a tough time preparing a critical edition of Mahabharat and Harivansh. Even now their prologmena says more editing is required.

Till Gupta period all the texts were in oral form narrated by Guru to shishya and memorized by him.

Vedas are still taught that way even now. One stanza narrated, memorized and recalled everyday and then more added with the first one and continued.

The original masters of rote learning or as they say in Hindi Ratta marna

all smriti texts which include MB harivansh and all the puranas are atrributed to Vyasa because they all have the same foundation compiled as MB and Harivansh by Vyasa.

These two texts are the single source from which all purana originate

Originally posted by: Chiillii

all smriti texts which include MB harivansh and all the puranas are atrributed to Vyasa because they all have the same foundation compiled as MB and Harivansh by Vyasa.

These two texts are the single source from which all purana originate

Ya I agree between can anyone tell me what's diff on bhagwatam and bhagwatpurana both are same kya

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Krishna Dwaipayana Vyasa is supposed to be the author.

These are my partial notes on it...

STARTING AFTER KAMSA VADH:

1. http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_038.html

http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_039.html

http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_040.html

After the multiple assassination attempts Krishna survived, he was under siege from Jarasandha 17 times. He was about to be killed by Balram in the first battle. Krishna spared Jarasandh’s life.

This is what Vikadru (a Yadava chief) then tells Krishna: You are our leader. The army and we are under your control. You are the reason for this enmity. Please protect us along with you.

Then, Vasudev, Krishna’s FATHER, said this: The king who has the six qualities is capable of understanding the essence of the meaning of advices. kR^iShNa! All that is told by vikadru with intelligence is with principles and acceptable. vikadru spoke about the duties of the king and the truth in the interest of the people. O the best among yAdava-s, please do whatever is acceptable.

This is Krishna’s response: At this time, I, along with my brother, powerful but acting like weak, will leave, for protecting our lives.

…

Our journey will be beneficial for the prosperity and good of our race, the citizens, the city and the nation. The kings, leaving their countries, eager for victory will not stay in other countries without killing the enemy in battle.

Then, Krishna and Balram seek out Parasu Ram. This is what Krishna says: O one who is fixed in vows! For protecting our city and people, both of us who are responsible for fighting, without the chariots, without the infantry, without shields and without weapons, have left the city due to the fear of jarAsaMdha. O the best among sages! Thus we have come to you. Kindly honour us by providing your good counsel.

This is what Parasu Ram advises: Listen! I shall tell you, where, both of you, affected by the enemy, should fight with the powerful jarAsaMdha.

swim across this auspicious river veNA - to the inaccessible mountain yaj~nagiri, located near sahya mountain is the abode of thieves - after staying there for a night, (let us cross) the river named khaTvA~Nga - the place decorated with forests where sages live - the mountains - the city of krau~ncha, stay there in the evening without seeing the king in a holy bathing place named AnadUhaM - go to the mountain, located in the gap of sahya, famous as gomantam, inaccessible even for the birds - jarAsaMdha will be unable to fight the mountain battle.

So basically, Parasu Ram advises Krishna to go on the run until he reaches Gomantam.

Once Krishna was taken there, Parasu Ram is the one who advises what to do: This is the place, our destination, where you will receive your weapons. The deva-s have decided the time of battle for you.

O the leader of deva-s! one who resides in vaikuNTha! O viShNu who is praised by deva-s, Listen to my words for the benefit of all people.

govinda! Taking the form of human body, among the work in the world done by you for the benefit of people,

this is the first duty as decided by time, as the battle with jarAsaMdha is approaching.

kR^iShNa! In the battle, the strength of weapons, the form and the terrible nature has to be determined by yourself.

Seeing you in the battle holding the discus and holding the mace, with your eight arms, even indra will be afraid.

O the one who respects others! From today onwards, you are sending the best kings of the earth, to heaven, by shooting arrows.

O govinda! The best among speakers! One who is having great arms! Now call the son of vinata quickly to become your flag bearer.

The kings, eager for battle, whose destination is heaven, are ready on the side of the sons of dhR^itarAShTra, engaged in battle.

Miserable due to the killing of kings, becoming a widow, the earth is waiting for you, like a woman wearing a single plait of hair.

O the oppressor of enemies! As you take the human form, as the battle is approaching, the kShatraiya-s, affected by planets, will not last long.

kR^iShNa! Now get ready for battle, for killing the dAnava-s (daitya-s), for the best among kings to attain heaven and for the comfort of deva-s.

kR^iShNa! I have done a good work, since I was felicitated by you, who is felicitated by the world of mobile and immobile beings.

Remember, this was a TEENAGER, not a master strategist yet. Texts say he was 11. I don’t believe it. No 11-year-old could’ve done what he did. Perhaps mid-to-late teens. And not God. This was Krishna’s first sacrifice, albeit coming about because he was pretty much abandoned by his clan, including his father. Balram was the only one who stuck him at the time. Balram had not yet raped Yamuna.

Without thinking of who adult Krishna was, think of a teenager who was out of the protective environment of Gokul for the first time.

Balram was the only family who actually stuck by Krishna. He finally met someone who was willing to help. Parasu Ram then gave him a job to do – get rid of evil kshatriyas like Jarasandha. How is this not a noble goal? How primed do you think Krishna was at the time to do exactly that and also to stick as closely to Balram as possible?

2. http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_041.html

http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_042.html

http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_043.html

http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_044.html

http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_045.html

See what happens next:

They seem to spend months, maybe years hiding out.

They watched the rise of moon, the best among stars. Standing on the mountain, they watched the rising and setting of planets.

Then the valiant, auspicious sa~NkarShaNa (balarAma), appearing like an elephant roamed on the peak of the mountain, without kR^iShNa.

…

After drinking that liquor again and again with desire, his body was swaying with intoxication.

Knowing that kR^iShNa's elder brother has become intoxicated with kadamba liquor, three divine women who speak pleasantly arrived there. madirA taking a form, kAnti the beloved of moon and the goddess shrI, the best woman with lotus on her flag.

Madira says this: O endless! (eternal), faultless (sinless)! I will not leave you even if you abuse me. O deva! Without you, I do not wish to be in this world.

Kanti: after madirA, kAnti came near sa~NkarShaNa (balarAma). Due to intoxication her hair was loose and her eyes were rolling.

The goddess shrI, resident of the lotus, attached to viShNu's chest, having faultless limbs who sparkles as an auspicious garland on the chest of the son of rohiNI (balarAma)… You are decorated by (joined with) vAruNi along with kAnti and me like the moon god. She gives him a crown.

Then Garuda arrives and offers alliance against Indra. son of vinatA (garuDa) arrived there immediately with tremendous speed, ready for battle

…

Krishna says: Taking a divine form similar to indra (shakra), vairochana had taken away my crown while I was sleeping in the great ocean.

…

The crown, taken away (by virochana) in the form of a large fish was brought back by garuDa. garuDa has captured my crown which was lost while I was sleeping on the serpent (bed).

Jarasandha arrives: It is clear that king jarAsaMdha has come near us. The tips of the flags of the chariots are seen flapping in the wind.

Krishna says: It is appropriate that the earth, tired of the weight, went to heaven. She was suffering due to the vast armies of these lion-like kings.

Jarasandh’s army: large powerful horses which were mounted by experts in arms.

chariots ready for battle

elephants

many soldiers mounted on horses

The powerful, infantry

four divisions of the army

stone pelting machines, oars and iron clubs. Keep your knives and spears raised up

From today, my army shall begin to blockade the mountain. Let us kill these two sons of vasudeva.

The king of chedi spoke like maghavAn (indra) of the deva-s: … The peak, full of tall trees is difficult to climb. Surrounding the mountain all around with lot of firewood and grass, let us set fire now itself quickly. Nothing else need to be done.

…

If they feel the heat and come out near us, we can fell them together. Then they will lose their lives.

Then, Balram (still drunks) does something stupid: Then rAma (balarAma) spoke these words, angrily, to the killer of keshi (kR^iShNa)…

kR^iShNa! Because of enmity to us, the powerful lords of the earth (kings), O Son, are burning this mountain along with its peaks and trees.

…

O the best among fighters, we should kill all the kShatrya-s (kings) with our own hands.

…

Speaking thus, splendorous bala (balarAma), the youth wearing a garland of wild flowers, jumped down from the peak, as if the moon (arising) from the peak of (the mountain) meru.

With his eyes intoxicated by kAdambari, … the elder brother of kR^ShNa (balarAma) jumped down among the kings.

Then, I think Krishna broke a dam or some such: Then hari (kR^iShNa) pressed down the best among mountains with his foot.

…

Water seeped from the rocks like water given out by an elephant in rut. With that water all fire was extinguished immediately.

after rAma, the valiant kR^iShNa jumped (from the mountain).

During this time, Krishna already had his bow, mace, and chakra, presumable given by Parasu Ram or one of the allies who arrived. After this, while fighting for survival, Balram and Jarasandha again face off. Balram once again spares Jarasandha’s life as it was supposedly not to be taken that day. I think he was simply let go. He then escaped. The other kings scattered.

Then, kings of Chedi and Karusha come and say THIS: O son of yAdava (kR^iShNa)! I am the husband of your father's sister. O Lord! I like you. I have come to you along with my army.

I told the king jarAsaMdha, having less intellect: O one with bad intellect! Stop your fight with kR^iShNa.

He was abandoned by me, who rejected my words. Defeated in the battle, jarAsaMdha is running away along with his followers.

…

Now you should leave this place full of dead men, meat eating animals and birds and served by non-human beings.

kR^iShNa! Let us go to the city of karavIra, along with my army. There we can see the king shR^igAla, vAsudeva.

…

(kR^iShNa said:) Oh! You, as a relative, have treated us, distressed by the battle, with the cool shower of your words suitable to the place and time.

…

O The lord of ched-s! Seeing you today, we have become enriched with a leader. Now there is nothing impossible for us, with you as a relative.

See how desperately grateful Krishna sounds?

Then: Knowing that they (balarAma and kR^iShNa) have arrived, shR^igAla, full of false pride of fighting, valiant as indra, came out thinking that the city was under assault.

…

Then there was a terrific battle between the two, like a battle in the forest between two elephants in rut.

I will not fight you who are alone, with my army. I alone will fight with you who are alone. Now let us both fight.

If you are killed, then I will be the only vAsudeva in the world. If I am killed, you will be the only vAsudeva.

…

discus killed the powerful shR^igAla

…

All the ministers cried along with the people.

…

his wives arrived with crying faces accompanied by sons.

…

His queen named padmAvatI, the best among women, came, crying to vAsudeva (kR^iShNa) along with her son.

(padmAvatI said :) O valiant! The son of the one who was felled by you in the battle and who is dead has come to you for protection.

…

(vaishampAyana said: O janamejaya!) Hearing the words of the queen, the son of yadu (kR^iShNa), the best among speakers, spoke these words sweetly.

…

O virtuous woman! My anger has gone with your sinless words. There is no doubt that this son of shR^igAla is my son as well.

I will protect him. I will also install him (as the king) comfortably. We shall summon the preceptors, ministers etc., (for the installation).

Then, Krishna and Balram return to Mathura. See what happens: All the residents including common men, ministers as suitable, old and young men and the entire city welcomed them.

To summarize: with support from the following allies: Krishna won support from Parasu Ram who then taught him about ridding the world of evil kings. This was followed by alliance with Madira (who Balram may have married), Kanti, and Shri. I believe this was Panchali. Perhaps she was the daughter of one of the sages. With that, Krishna and Balram won the support of all the sages who lived on Gomantam.

NOTE: Drupad was part of the group assembled by Jarasandh to attack Krishna here.

After the defeat of Jarasandha, Chedi King lies that he was Krishna’s side all the time and takes him to Shringala to make another alliance. Shringala attacks, instead. Krishna does kill Shringala but makes an ally of the man’s son. Does this sound like a man looking out ONLY for himself?

Then, once Krishna has all these allies, Yadavas are only too happy to accept him back.

Thanks a lot..Between balram too vishnu avtar right..why made him so bad I m wondering

Originally posted by: Sweetypie34

Ya I agree between can anyone tell me what's diff on bhagwatam and bhagwatpurana both are same kya

Yes, they are same.

Bhagavat purana and bhagvatham and srimad bhagavatham are the same. Narrator is Suka son of Vyasa and Ghritachi, listener is Parikshit son of Abhimanyu and Uttara.

It is basically Harivansh whitewashed into a bhakti filled narration by a Krishna devotee.

It is the primary spiritual text for Gaudiya Vaishnava and Iskon and there are many commentaries available to it.

You can understand how devotion to diety makes people interpolate facts....

The extraordinary human Krishna of Harivansh becomes the Vishnu Incarnation of Vishnu Purana and now Bhagvatham is interpolated by Iskon such that their claim it is Krishna whose incarnation is Vishnu and all the other avatars.i.e. Krishna is the supreme being and vishnu was one of the avatar of Krishna

By the way foundational texts Mahabharat, Harivansh and VishnuPuran do not mention Radha at all or any specific Gopika. (ofcourse MB would not because it relates to krishna's role in the war only) but Harivansh and Vishnu Purana which are specifically on Krishna's life do not mention her.

Also some people do a lot of mental gymnastics to say a specific gopi is mentioned as Krishna's favourite in bhagvatham but she is nameless because Radha's identity is hidden by suka out of devotion.

She is not there in Matsya and Vayu Purana as well.

So the first 6 books do not mention her.

But Radha is named amd glorified in the later puranas.

Why and how this is so we have already discussed before so not going there.

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Suka Rishi is son of Vyasa and apsara Ghritachi. Parikshit is grandson of Arjuna to whom Bhagvatham or popularly known as Srimad Bhagvatham is recited..

It is a devotional text - bhagvatham means story of Bhagavan. Here it means Krishna.

All the texts be it Mahabharat or Bhagvatham or Harivansh or Purana were written down during the Gupta period.

All texts have heavy interpolations, and Bhandarkar institute had a tough time preparing a critical edition of Mahabharat and Harivansh. Even now their prologmena says more editing is required.

Till Gupta period all the texts were in oral form narrated by Guru to shishya and memorized by him.

Vedas are still taught that way even now. One stanza narrated, memorized and recalled everyday and then more added with the first one and continued.

The original masters of rote learning or as they say in Hindi Ratta marna

All the texts excluding Vedas are highly interpolated. Vedas retained their purity because they had reached the Apaurasheya status by the end of second millennium BCE. Vedic chanting is a UNESCO heritage for being the longest existing tradition n being the same for at least last 3200 years (not just the words even the tune, tone, stanza n repeat structure remains the same) According to Wheeler (renowned modern day Historian n Indologist) had there been a tape recorder in 1500BCE and someone would have recorded the Vedic chanting then, it would have matched the Vedic chanting of today

However the difference between HV, MB and SB is that while the former two were existing compositions which got curropted only to reach it's final form by Gupta period, (earliest MB reference n copy can be found around 2nd century CE prior to Gupta period), SB definitely was even composed later. Throughout the text it speaks of future (till the time of Gupta period)

Either Sukn muni didn't narrate any book to Parikshit or the book he narrated was lost n this is a completely recreated book

Originally posted by: Sweetypie34

Ya I agree between can anyone tell me what's diff on bhagwatam and bhagwatpurana both are same kya

Yes both are same Bhagwat Puran is also known as Sreemad Bhagwatam. We use the acronym SB here for this or sometimes Bhagwatam just for our ease

Originally posted by: Sweetypie34

Thanks a lot..Between balram too vishnu avtar right..why made him so bad I m wondering

They were writing in historical narrative. They obviously had their biases but they were more into penning down real events. Obviously the wrongs do get called upon

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Bhagavat purana and bhagvatham and srimad bhagavatham are the same. Narrator is Suka son of Vyasa and Ghritachi, listener is Parikshit son of Abhimanyu and Uttara.

It is basically Harivansh whitewashed into a bhakti filled narration by a Krishna devotee.

It is the primary spiritual text for Gaudiya Vaishnava and Iskon and there are many commentaries available to it.

You can understand how devotion to diety makes people interpolate facts....

The extraordinary human Krishna of Harivansh becomes the Vishnu Incarnation of Vishnu Purana and now Bhagvatham is interpolated by Iskon such that their claim it is Krishna whose incarnation is Vishnu and all the other avatars.i.e. Krishna is the supreme being and vishnu was one of the avatar of Krishna

By the way foundational texts Mahabharat, Harivansh and VishnuPuran do not mention Radha at all or any specific Gopika. (ofcourse MB would not because it relates to krishna's role in the war only) but Harivansh and Vishnu Purana which are specifically on Krishna's life do not mention her.

Also some people do a lot of mental gymnastics to say a specific gopi is mentioned as Krishna's favourite in bhagvatham but she is nameless because Radha's identity is hidden by suka out of devotion.

She is not there in Matsya and Vayu Purana as well.

So the first 6 books do not mention her.

But Radha is named amd glorified in the later puranas.

Why and how this is so we have already discussed before so not going there.

True Harivanshpuranam is much a narration of History. Sreemad is mostly devotion. That's the reason I feel Samb would have been really some kind of a demon(not in literal sense) to have been not whitewashed even there. Truly speaking I really feel bad for Lakshmana. The girl genuinely suffered the most. R**e followed by marriage to her r**eist, losing out her father n brother (howsoever bad Dury might have been for her he would have been her first love) mother commits Sati (not in MB but Oriya Mahabharatha States so) and finally probably getting trapped by Dasyus post which we all can imagine what kind of life she would have had if at all she had some