Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Eternal Love CC #5 - Page 11

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

Agree, if there is the simplest way to play with his nephew, why he is torturing himself in such a long wait, and maintaining that cyclone in his Royal court hall? Imagining Kans in disguise of some dude and roaming around Krishna to have a chat with him, while Aila watching them from a distance inquisitively!🤣

Why should Vallav have all the fun !? 😉

Originally posted by: stormborn

Replying from the last thread

What is God ?
What is Evolution ?

Ancient and vital and more importantly beautiful questions you brought up. Let me add one more to the list---->

Who are you ? or Rather who am I ? Who is Gayatri or Who is Suta ? Can we answer these 4 questions with one answer ? We can't. Because we are four different individuals with different moral ethics, beliefs, interests among many things.

But what if I answer the second question as----I am only a point on a spinning and boiling magnetic sphere having a cold hard exterior and an attached gaseous surrounding which itself is spinning around another massive spinning fireball in the great vacuum ?

Let me answer all the four questions I aroused with a single word----MIRACLE.

I am a Miracle. You are a Miracle. So is Suta. And So is Gayatri. I don't know Sumi personally but I am sure she is one helluva miracle too.

But if we are miraculous points in a weird lava-ball, what about the vast blue sky that gets orange twice a day ?----miracle or god's doing ? Or God is a miracle too ?

I have one more question------What is Science ? a miracle too ?

Let's think about all 3 questions together and find out whether they can be interlinked-----God, Evolution & Science.

If we think about how it started, We can see the emergence of Pashupati and plenty of phallus worship from the cave pictures in ancient times. Pashupati Mahadeva----wears animal skin, holds a hunting trident, lives in the mountains inside a cave, masculine, rough long hair---he still kind of looks like the ancient cavemen. Doesn't he ? So the artist who painted him for the first time----who did he paint ? Himself, his clan leader or a God he saw in his dream ? Well that's an answer we can never find answer of. But within our knowledge, it was the start of the evolution of God.

Then came the Aryan period and Gods like Indra, Varun, Pawan etc. found their relevance. The gods that represented Thunder, flood and storm. Why were these chosen as the entities to be worshiped ? Just because humans were scared of natural calamities ? or because they were more curious than scared ? They wanted to know the reasons behind the calamities. They couldn't find out rational answers so they expanded their imagination and satisfied themselves with stories that gave them answers ?
Days passed by. Some humans emerged who were not ready to grant these answers and applied the more rational approach and found out the scientific reasons. But what drove them to find those answers ? Curiosity, isn't it ? And did the first scientist had the practical proof of his discovery ? Did Aryabhatt have a telescope to see that the earth revolves around the sun or was it a hypothesis or rather imagination ?

So if we think about the Evolution of God and Science, both had the same driving forces-- curiosity and imagination in the mind of a point in a spinning magnet......Miracle !! Yes their approach and application were different (the former driven by mostly emotional intelligence and the later by mostly rationality. Though the vice versa must have also happened in times. I am only talking about the root of all the driving forces )

In between all these, the power play entered the religious sector during Aryan and later in the vedic culture. The caste system, the dominance of the brahmanical society, the emergence of the Jains and the Buddhists etc. You talked about religious obsession in your post and described it beautifully. So I will not get into that.

Now the way you asked what is evolution, I wasn't clear what you were talking about ? Was it about how once we were apes and there were dynosaurs and now how some humans are still apes and we make movies after movies on dynosaurs ? Well just like the answer to what is life, what is mind, why are some people dumb beyond imagination, why serial killers kill, the answer can be that it's a miracle or it's just natural occurrence or it can have a scientific or philosophical or psychological explanation . We can talk from survival of the fittest to darwinian theories or how polar bears have dense fur because of the temperature. There are umpteenth of interesting books on evolution written by biologists and anthropologists alike. I am neither. So not getting into that as well.

If God is the driving force of the universe then God is an emotion. God is curiosity. God is the imagination that makes us appreciate the beauty of a red lotus playing peekaboo behind a mossy stone or the colorful rainbow in the grey sky. And most importantly what you said---- God is the little hope that the bleeding soldier has to play with his daughter again. ❤️

Evolution has brought us a long way since our ancestors lived in caves. But whenever I read about the paintings of the cavemen, whenever I see the pictures of dancing men holding hands represented by stick like figures made by an ancient artist, I get spellbound everytime. They danced and then took selfies. How amazing is that ?

When I look at the cave pictures of jumping kids and then my nephew jumps the same way into my lap, I feel awstruck. I feel weirdly related to that artist who might have been a woman like me who drew her little nephew.

I was very young when I came across the pictures about the toys found in the indus valley civilization. I was amazed. I ran to my mom and threw this silly question at her----you know, the indus valley kids also played with toys. Babies always needed toys.......!! Well of course they did. Their tiny hands should be busy with something so that they don't break important things or eat dust. Shouldn't they ?

These moments---------feeling connected to a fossil that once lived, danced, wore jewellery------what are these ? Magic ? Miracle ? Science ? Evolution ? God ????

Like I said, God is a name. Name it whatever you want. Your answer will be never wrong.

We use carbon dating to figure out age of historical artifacts. And can you bet there was not atleast one scientist in ISRO who was praying to his God in his mind when Vikram was in the danger zone ? Well I can't.

This is why I said no one is against each other even though everyone has his/her own perspective. Just like all of us are points in the middle of nowhere but still everyone is different as per our own individuality. The only thing that matters is whether or not we are being respectful to other people's point of view when we disagree.

Humans always had the habit of assuming everything that's yet to be discovered and explained properly or everything that still needs plenty of research to be some celestial divine beings. I find it romantic at times because of the causes I said. But personally I rely on scientific research. The mohini dance and Rahu responsible for eclipse story is fun. But we know it's not true because we have the proper scientific explanation regarding that. Now lots of things are still under research. I won't call them God just because those don't yet have practical confirmation like solar or lunar eclipse. We are yet to explore lots of things. I will wait.

In a nutshell, the existence of life, nature or rather the universe itself is a miracle. We can just try to find out the 'WHYs' to quench our overwhelming curiosity. To some, the answer is always God. To others, scientific explanation does the deed. My guess is you lie in the intersection and I respect that flexibility.

About Kurukshetra- I know about the actual existence of the Kuru clan, the Bharat clan etc., their alliances, fights, bloodbaths etc. Even the pandava clan existed. Fictions are not always 100% fictional. The example I cited was about the inaccuracy of timeline.According to most historians, the Mahabharata was written during 10th BC to 4th cen AD in 3 phases. One person can't live for so long. As I said earlier that I don't believe in the existence of deities or eternal life or incarnations. There are many other arguments both for and against this matter. This is one of the wildest debates going on in today's world.

Stories are often inspired from real life. I have seen the underwater dwarka pics and the radioactivity argument regarding kurukshetra. I have also seen the innumerable debates against it being true. I chose to believe the later. But I am always flexible to be logically convinced otherwise.

We can get the knowledge of contemporary social, economic, political aspects of those times from the Puranas like we get ideas about the pre independence India from Bankimchandra's Anandamath. As I said, fictions are not always 100% fictional. It gets confusing at times because often the puranas are written from a forecasting perspective and I don't believe in soothsaying either, But still I am grateful that those were written. Either way-- the puranas, the epics, the kamasutra, the Sushruta------fiction and non fiction alike-----those are our ancient assets and I am proud and grateful to have those in my country.

All in all I loved what you said about me in the part quoted here. Thanks for such words. Though I won't call myself a theist in any way. Calling myself one would be hypocrisy from my side and wrong towards the real theists. You are right about me being agnostic at times. But I relate to atheism the most and that's why identify as one.

I typed this in laptop and got carried away. Now I realize how long it got. I am grateful for your patience. Love.

God is a supra-human , not a mere human, a Spiritual Powerhouse for few, for a few believing Him is a peace provider, faith makes the man a better human than the all-free human! God is conceived by humans as being omniscient -all-knowing, omnipotent -all-powerful, omnipresent -all-present and as having an eternal and necessary existence! God's existence is necessary for the sustenance of humans, because, if there is no concept of God, then there will be utter confusion, no morals , no ethics , complete lawlessness, nihilism prevails! God is a governing force to humans to guide them in their trials and trivialities! Who invented this Universe, who is controlling the cosmos, how a tiny particle of sperm and Ovary transforms as imagining, thinking, believing, inventing, and perishing human being? Is God a creation of the mind of a man? A comforting and consoling thought that maybe like --there is someone who can help us in times of need-- Psychology? Or is God much more than this??--Spiritual approach!

Acco to materialism and humanism, the human race has slowly evolved from lower life-forms, it has invented “god” as a superstitious answer to questions about life that it cannot otherwise answer. If left to ourselves, we humans simply speculate, guess and wonder about how to please God to safeguard our interests, instead of thinking about how he looks like , where he exists and how he knows all in all?? God is a firm belief, an imaginary Spirit, a supra-- human beyond our thought! God is family for many! God’s fundamental nature is love. God is holy, with perfect, righteous character, and His purpose is to create in human beings that same holy character,to develop the righteousness around them. The cosmos—the created realm—is a testimony to the eternal creative power of God, which should lead people to believe in God’s existence!!

These are only some of the things to understand about God, and only an overview at that. It is true that we cannot fully understand all there is to know about God. God is not limited by time or space as we are. >> God is superior to us in all aspects, that is our belief! There are some aspects of God that are beyond our comprehension! The wonderous world we are seeing with awe, there must be some beginning point for this vast spectacle, that beginning and the pinnacle of faith is God! So God is good, God is a virtue, God is Love, and God is the beginning and the end of our beliefs/ imaginations!

Moumi, what is Evolution is your next question --

I feel till Rama, the God evolved himself from animal instinct to human form -- I feel , there is a process of evolution we can see in the progress of God through his incarnations! God too evolved himself through life on Earth! He is omnipotent and has been manifesting himself on this earth since the time immemorial to save it from the evil and to get earth rid of all the bad spirits and anarchy prevailed. With God , the species adapted certain variations and developed themselves accordingly and the way Vishnu's manifestations have taken shape since the beginning >> though illusory in perception !

At the beginning, life originated from water -- from the sea, in the sea. In Hindu mythology, it has been told that the world originated from Aadi Jal (eternal cosmic water). Life, according to the theory of evolution, started with the invertebrates and then came vertebrates in the ocean in the form of fishes, as Matsya avatar Vishnu appears in the form of a fish to save the life on earth.The next stage started with life came out of the ocean and the beings started walking on the land to some extent or we can say that the amphibians came into existenceVishnu appeared as Kurma (tortoise) to bring Amrit (nectar of life) out from the ocean. From water to land , then as an animal, the Adi Varah came to earth to save it from demons. Later emerged as Narasimha,-- his Avatar shows how the wild animals ruled the land in the initial stages of the evolution process. The next stage in the evolution is the early human ancestors who were like the link between apes and humans or the link between the apes and their early beings i.e half human half animal form, the God with an animal instinct [ killing cruelly the Demon HiranyaKasip with a newly developed human trait ,the love towards kids and women---- the transition of God from animal state to human form! In the process of evolution now humans came and evolved, the next avatar of Vishnu, is in the form of a dwarf called Vaaman and is similar to this new evolved humankind. This time he came with few human traits , i.e , not tended to kill cruelly like an animal , but with a thinking mind , with a tactical way send king Bali to the underworld. Left him with punishment, not killed like earlier.

Now came the humans who were somewhat like us but lived in caves and are known as early man. Vishnu's next avatar was that of Parshuram who lived in mountains doing penance. He is famous for his anger and at the same time, he always carries an axe, there was no control over feelings! Early men at this stage used to act without much reason and did not know the reason for life. Parshuram who was so furious that killed and vanished the whole Kshatriya clan from the earth mercilessly. He would do penance to know about consciousness and indeed, was a conscious soul at the same time to give boons to his students and followers!! Then came the Rama Avtar , with him the earlier civilized societies of humankind emerged, whether it is something related with the caste system, related with land disputes or the relationship between the ruler and the ruled subjects.

I feel at this stage , God has still to evolve himself to reach a level to teach Dharma to mankind ! He started living in the society as a civilized human with all human traits and weaknesses , made rules and followed them to lay the foundation of a society which is based on righteousness. He has given more importance to relationships, respect, and righteousness. Lord Ram was perfect in respecting relationships and elders, he was perfect in establishing a society based on the policies of righteousness (Ram Rajya). Though many argue that justice was at it's best in Ram Rajya , I differ here . It was still in a developing stage ! God has yet to evolve , yet to come out of certain traits of a caveman which downgraded women till then . That's why Laxman criticized Kaika , Ram asked for Agni pariksha -- my weird question to everyone is why Sita hasn't asked Agni Pariksha for Ram , he too lived separately from her in all those years , but the main point is , as a woman Sita didn't have such a right to ask , to express doubt , to question Ram's fidelity!! I appreciate Sita's character more than Rama because , she has shown some individuality at the end , given the heirs to the kingdom , and walked off from Ram's life with grace -- who questioned her fidelity , who left her in an inhuman way in the forest knowing that she was preg at that time !

Now here the evolution comes to an end as far as physical appearance is concerned. But mentally humans evolved even more after this stage and are still evolving .acco to Aurobindo's Theory of Evolutionary Progression !

When men established a good society where everyone was satisfied, then major issues started taking place such as land disputes at a major level, not only living with sheer righteousness but also how to take/ make the right decisions to achieve righteousness. At this point,the man started knowing more about the intelligence of mind not only in terms of physical reality but also in terms of metaphysical reality, the complete consciousness!

The man started realizing about philosophy and metaphysics, knowing self, identity, time, space, life and death etc. Materialism was indeed an important factor for the man at this stage but more important was the philosophical knowledge. I think many of us can guess which avatar I am talking about now. Yes, Vishnu's next avatar is that of Lord Shree Krishna who is more perfect than perfection itself, in every sense. He is the master of philosophy, he preaches the ultimate knowledge in Gita , presented to the world.

Krishna as the next level of God is completely self-conscious and knows what inner life is. He knows about every aspect of life and life after life or death. He knows about karmas, moksha, and how to be one with god, Krishna told how to achieve what is your right by being adaptable, hardworking and by taking the right decision which suits the condition that you are facing, a sort of adaptability he introduced. After this stage, man aware of philosophical terms and knowledge-started practicing it and tried achieving moksha .In this incarnation, God evolved as a Supra human, the ultimate God !

The way God with humans evolved or the way life has evolved on this earth and the way we have lived since the beginning till this modern period is nothing but a part of God's evolution as a fully developed spiritual guide Every avatar fits in so perfectly with the advancement of humans that I find it extremely mysterious yet interesting. Moumi,I hope I answered your second question.

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

Moumi, what is Evolution is your next question --

I will read the whole post with full attention. I just want to clarify one thing here. What's evolution was not my question, it was yours. You asked it to me in your post in the last thread and I replied that in this post. I couldn't quote that part because you edited my post to write it. What's God----- too was your question in that same post. But that was kinda rhetorical.

Ancient and vital and more importantly beautiful questions you brought up-------I wrote this under those two questions.

Anyway this post was my perspective. It's time for yours. I will read it asap🤗

Madhuri there is a debate that the countries with more atheist people are more peaceful. What is your view on that?

I think distorting myths is an age old phenomena.

Originally posted by: vyapti

I think distorting myths is an age old phenomena.

It's ambiguous. Please elaborate.

Madhuri, I agree God has evolved with humans. But that happened consistently with the evolution of art and culture. IMO, the reason behind that is that God was CREATED and EVOLVED through artworks, books and stories written by human. With the evolution of human brains, society and perspective----- the stories evolved as well.

As example---- Mahabharata had no mention of Radha. Then a fan fiction, Geet Govind was written by Jayadeva and the eternal romance became famous atleast 200 years after Mahabharata was done.

( And then in 2019 perhaps Swastik Radha gives superi contract to Krishna for killing Kans. But that's not the point here )

This is exactly what I was telling about distorting myths. The difference between several versions of the same myth over time.

May be they were not distortion but reinterpretation. But who knows there could be some distortions lke swastik RK also that did not pass the test of time.

Originally posted by: vyapti

Madhuri there is a debate that the countries with more atheist people are more peaceful. What is your view on that?

In modern times religion gained a lot of prominence and in the name of God people started quarreling, questioning and demeaning others who don't follow that religion, religion which is based on the name of God is the root cause of many revolts and revolutions in the society! If that base for all that fanatism is not there, then the society will be at peace. As far as the mass/ matter is there there will be different angles too will be there and then starts dualism, Monism and other theories . The nonreligious are more liberal and more pacifist on most issues relating to violence, torture, the death penalty, corporal punishment, imperialism and more! Religion’s violent tendencies also tend to be reflected in its adherents’ personal lives. Of course, not every atheist is peaceful and not every religious person is violent. God --based religion shows the Spiritual path to humanity , and on the other side, which makes them religious fanatics and violent at times, which disturbs the peace in that particular society.