Construction of Mosque near Ground Zero - Page 16

Sarina, since your position is based on the constitutional rights - would you mind answering some of my questions below:

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Why not a simple question, because in my opinion it is not a matter of simple questions. There are different means to amend a constitution. Being a Federal Republic, there are legal ways for a states to make exceptions. The reason for questioning is that too many people protest or oppose something, but have no clear vision for alternatives. What would one envision to be the best course of action in such situations. The primary argument here is 'sentiment' of people, and I want to know if people want to make changes to our legal framework to reflect the pulse of sentiment in extraordinary circumstance.

I think you are protesting on principle and solidarity with majority sentiment. You defer to constitutional authority, and hope it gets amended, would probably be angry/disappointed etc if this goes through. (Do correct me if I am mistaking your stance) I'm sure there are others who feel something more concrete needs to be done to ensure this does not go through. So the Americans opposing it, how strongly do they feel about it and what course of action do they envision the country to take if the builders of the community center don't back down. Maybe I am the only one seeing it as more complicated than it should be.

Originally posted by: Gauri_3

K also claims that his stance is to show solidarity with majority of american sentiments on this issue.

I am surprised how both of you could stay unconnected from the issue itself given how rampant terrorist attacks are in India, back home for us, too.

Sarina, which neck of the woods you are talking about here - the one you migrated to or the one you left behind? Because the one that you left behind is reeling under repeated terrorist attacks as well. Go back there and try taking a poll from mumbaikars on what they feel about the proposed location for this Cordoba "so called community" center. Chances are more than 70% will tell you it's plain insensitive and that they are against this community center/mosque --- and I am talking about the folks who have never lived in the US still I can bet they will see what the REAL issue is behind this facade of mending burnt bridges.

Given our Indian background and our shared experiences of the havoc wrecked at our motherland and adopted country by the so called jihadies, it is extremely hard for me to wrap my head around this particular claim you both made here on this thread. It is not one single issue we are looking in isolation. We are talking about rubbing salt to the wounds of millions or survivng victims all across the globe here.

Originally posted by: Mister.K.

Simple G. You can't win a debate if you base your arguments solely on sentiments and emotions. "Rubbing salt to the wounds", "spit on the face", "slap on the face" were all considered but can't be solid grounds for a debate. The ones who cite the constitution would always win the case, regardless of what the overwhelming majority thinks. Which is why I am pushing for an amendment.

Originally posted by: Gauri_3

That said; as far as the debates here go - even the contests have been won on mere emotional appeal and # of "like" hits on the posts. I have seen utterly idiotic appeals running high on misplaced nationalism score more like hits than the practical views that are in touch with reality. Heck, I am bashed by some to this day for calling a spade a spade! Why this hypocrisy in this section?

Originally posted by: Mister.K.

jahan mool vishayon ki charchaa chal raha (rahi) ho, wahan tum apni (apney) khule hue kesh na dikhlaya karo kalyani.

Originally posted by: Gauri_3

K also claims that his stance is to show solidarity with majority of american sentiments on this issue.

I am surprised how both of you could stay unconnected from the issue itself given how rampant terrorist attacks are in India, back home for us, too.

Sarina, which neck of the woods you are talking about here - the one you migrated to or the one you left behind? Because the one that you left behind is reeling under repeated terrorist attacks as well. Go back there and try taking a poll from mumbaikars on what they feel about the proposed location for this Cordoba "so called community" center. Chances are more than 70% will tell you it's plain insensitive and that they are against this community center/mosque --- and I am talking about the folks who have never lived in the US still I can bet they will see what the REAL issue is behind this facade of mending burnt bridges.

Given our Indian background and our shared experiences of the havoc wrecked at our motherland and adopted country by the so called jihadies, it is extremely hard for me to wrap my head around this particular claim you both made here on this thread. It is not one single issue we are looking in isolation. We are talking about rubbing salt to the wounds of millions or survivng victims all across the globe here.

Umm, I spoke in present tense; so obviously I was referring to where I am currently residing – Southern Wisconsin. But I did meet some relatives from Bombay recently and am in touch with friends and family still living back there. We have discussed this. In the sphere of people I know in real life, I am honestly hard pressed to find people who seriously oppose the community center. I'm sorry I don't have the time to poll the rest of India or USA; I'm speaking from my experience and never claimed my experience to be factually accurate or representative of the whole.

The jihadis are wrong, they are criminals, terrorists and heinous humans. I've lived in the city during bomb blasts and riots. However, my mind is unable to hold resentment or mistrust for any other Muslim or group of Muslims until there is legitimate confirmation that their opinions and actions are against my country and/or the spirit of humanity.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Umm, I spoke in present tense; so obviously I was referring to where I am currently residing ? Southern Wisconsin. But I did meet some relatives from Bombay recently and am in touch with friends and family still living back there. We have discussed this. In the sphere of people I know in real life, I am honestly hard pressed to find people who seriously oppose the community center. I'm sorry I don't have the time to poll the rest of India or USA; I'm speaking from my experience and never claimed my experience to be factually accurate or representative of the whole.

How many of the folks you know lost a loved one during terror attacks or survived one themselves? If the asnwer is none then, perhaps, you are feeling up the wrong crowd.

The jihadis are wrong, they are criminals, terrorists and heinous humans. I've lived in the city during bomb blasts and riots. However, my mind is unable to hold resentment or mistrust for any other Muslim or group of Muslims until there is legitimate confirmation that their opinions and actions are against my country and/or the spirit of humanity.

Do you have the absolute proof of their true intent behind this move? I guess not. You are taking their claims at face value and in good faith. If you can take their claims in good faith then why aren't you doing the same for all the circumstantial evidence pointing at a totally different angle as far as motives/intent go. Why are you totally discounting that evidence spanning over last couple of decades?

ALL, I repeat, ALL jihadies so far have been the product of one fanatic mosque or other with most of them tutored in madarsas. Additionally, it is hard to track the real source of donations coming in any islamic institution these days. Most of the money flows in from SaudiA - the land of wahabi, utmost kattar, sect of islam.

You can google the legitimacy of this circumstantial evidence whether in the US, India, Pakistan or any other country. I would not take the risk AND the added burden on US monitoring resources based on the footprints such institutions have left all across the globe.