GHKKPM Chat Club - Page 86

Originally posted by: nutmeg7

which one are you talking about? A little Life by Hanya Yanagihara

No, I was talking about Stephen King's novel, IT and Haruki Murakami's book, Norwegian Wood.

You can read my mature post at page 83. Then you'll understand what I was talking about. I wrote about the scenes in that mature post.

Originally posted by: ThaneOfElsinore

Oh no! You're articulate and precise too. I do get into long drawn out essays some times. You're my TL;DR version.

You have a way of saying things that I really like, making people contemplate about it ; easing them into it. I like reading your thoughts

My opinion might differ from yours as I believe art (in any form) can help break barriers. The contexts you mentioned here are ofc very disturbing but are also available to an audience which is mature enough to understand that this is fiction as mainly adults are the ones reading these kinds of books. And imo people writing such disturbing stuff might actually open space where we have difficult conversations such as the book IT you mentioned and the context you mentioned can actually in a more dignified way be used to make people understand how terrifying peer pressure can be and how sensitive the pre-teen age is. Like we have authors who have written books like the Animal Park which in their own way are dark but they talked about the communism and social class system existing in the society.

The second book that you mentioned, I haven't read that but the part you har mentioned, imo the author is trying to make people realise how complex it is for some people to accept death esp of their parents. And the particular scene you mentioned shows how terrifying electra complex (a psychological condition by sigmund freud where the child develops unconscious desires for the parent of opposite gender).

Now I don't know if the protagonist was actually suffering from it but us talking about the scene opened a conversation about psychology and psychological issues, which I believe can be fulfilled by writing

Originally posted by: missFiesty_69

I’m not aware of the context of your post but having heard about such scenes I honestly think those scenes are the ones which create a “deep” air about the book ; they are purposely used in the book to create a sensational effect that they think the audience likes — and they are not wrong, it sells too. Purely intended for a dramatic effect. Publishers dig that stuff and writers intentionally or maybe sometimes forced to, include such scenes to make it, for a lack of a better word more saleable.

I don't think that those particular scenes were written to create sensationalism. As being a person who knew about those books, none of the scenes were actually used to 'sell' the book. Also these kinds of books are for a very different and matured kinda audience who I don't think so would be lured into reading these whole books just to get some sort of adrenaline rush for a scene of just 2 pages. Also using a writer's creativity or a way they think to always put it in a context where they wrote sensational stuff just to sell a book is an insult to their creativity.

Originally posted by: Riddhi2Saini006

My opinion might differ from yours as I believe art (in any form) can help break barriers. The contexts you mentioned here are ofc very disturbing but are also available to an audience which is mature enough to understand that this is fiction as mainly adults are the ones reading these kinds of books. And imo people writing such disturbing stuff might actually open space where we have difficult conversations such as the book IT you mentioned and the context you mentioned can actually in a more dignified way be used to make people understand how terrifying peer pressure can be and how sensitive the pre-teen age is. Like we have authors who have written books like the Animal Park which in their own way are dark but they talked about the communism and social class system existing in the society.

The second book that you mentioned, I haven't read that but the part you har mentioned, imo the author is trying to make people realise how complex it is for some people to accept death esp of their parents. And the particular scene you mentioned shows how terrifying electra complex (a psychological condition by sigmund freud where the child develops unconscious desires for the parent of opposite gender).

Now I don't know if the protagonist was actually suffering from it but us talking about the scene opened a conversation about psychology and psychological issues, which I believe can be fulfilled by writing

Well, of course, art has different interpretations but I don't think these books can be compared to Animal Farm by Orwell. Animal Farm was an impeccable satire, with a deliberate intent to expose the fallacies and dictatorial nature of Stalin's Soviet Union.

Coming to the books that Shirsha told us about, most of these books are not written for "sparking conversations" per say. It's not written in a critiquing manner as far as I can interpret from Shirsha's description. It's not making the readers aware about the angles you're talking of actually. It's driving some of them away, for example readers like Shirsha or even me or it's trying to evoke some reactions from readers that are not mature enough to understand it. The intent is clearly not the way you individually interpreted it. Not all readers think like you or me. Like Shirsha said, if it really wanted to draw attention to such issues, it could have done it in a way different way, preserving the essence. But the author choosing the usual, explicit way comes across as a forced, unnecessary and quite frankly, a lazy attempt to "break barriers", in case they are trying to do so.

From my point of view, interpreting art like this is also a way of "creating depth" which perhaps, doesn't even exist for the writer. The "depth" and meaning of such books is artificially created instead of being naturally woven through the narrative. Although as a critic and observer of art myself, I can't stop people from interpreting things in their own way, so your point of view is definitely valid. But it's not convincing to me.

Originally posted by: Riddhi2Saini006

My opinion might differ from yours as I believe art (in any form) can help break barriers. The contexts you mentioned here are ofc very disturbing but are also available to an audience which is mature enough to understand that this is fiction as mainly adults are the ones reading these kinds of books. And imo people writing such disturbing stuff might actually open space where we have difficult conversations such as the book IT you mentioned and the context you mentioned can actually in a more dignified way be used to make people understand how terrifying peer pressure can be and how sensitive the pre-teen age is. Like we have authors who have written books like the Animal Park which in their own way are dark but they talked about the communism and social class system existing in the society.

The second book that you mentioned, I haven't read that but the part you har mentioned, imo the author is trying to make people realise how complex it is for some people to accept death esp of their parents. And the particular scene you mentioned shows how terrifying electra complex (a psychological condition by sigmund freud where the child develops unconscious desires for the parent of opposite gender).

Now I don't know if the protagonist was actually suffering from it but us talking about the scene opened a conversation about psychology and psychological issues, which I believe can be fulfilled by writing

Your perspective is interesting, Riddhi. Thank you for sharing your opinion. I really want to read Haruki Murakami's books because he's incredibly popular. In fact, he's is the most popular Japanese author. Several booktubers said Norwegian Wood was amazing, so I became really curious. Norwegian Wood is in my TBR list. But when I came to know about those disturbing scenes of Norwegian Wood yesterday, I thought about not reading it at least for now. But after reading your opinion, I think I may give both IT and Norwegian Wood a try in the future. I'm not completely sure about reading them though. And yes, Haruki Murakami wrote a book named Kafka on The Shore and that book revolves around the theme of Oedipus complex. So, it might be possible that he wanted to show electra complex in Norwegian Wood.

Originally posted by: Riddhi2Saini006

I don't think that those particular scenes were written to create sensationalism. As being a person who knew about those books, none of the scenes were actually used to 'sell' the book. Also these kinds of books are for a very different and matured kinda audience who I don't think so would be lured into reading these whole books just to get some sort of adrenaline rush for a scene of just 2 pages. Also using a writer's creativity or a way they think to always put it in a context where they wrote sensational stuff just to sell a book is an insult to their creativity.

A hard disagree. Critiquing authors is a part of literary circles. Not an insult to anyone's creativity. Most people should understand that critique is not humiliation. Humiliation is a totally different word with a lot more context, and sadly, people don't call out when something is actually insulted.

Although I get your point about the age group of the audience, but still, the argument of it not being created for sensationalism is quite weak, given how much money these publishers milk out of the success of the books with such content. I never said that authors always do this for more bestsellers and sales. I said most of them as history has been a witness of how beautiful stories and novels have been ruined because of adding the mature content to make them somehow "deep" and "symbolic".

Originally posted by: Shirsha

Your perspective is interesting, Riddhi. Thank you for sharing your opinion. I really want to read Haruki Murakami's books because he's incredibly popular. In fact, he's is the most popular Japanese author. Several booktubers said Norwegian Wood was amazing, so I became really curious. Norwegian Wood is in my TBR list. But when I came to know about those disturbing scenes of Norwegian Wood yesterday, I thought about not reading it at least for now. But after reading your opinion, I think I may give both IT and Norwegian Wood a try in the future. I'm not completely sure about reading them though. And yes, Haruki Murakami wrote a book named Kafka on The Shore and that book revolves around the theme of Oedipus complex. So, it might be possible that he wanted to show electra complex in Norwegian Wood.

I expressed my views on Riddhi's perspective, Shirsha. You can read that. Although I don't fully agree with her, I do understand what she's trying to convey.

Originally posted by: ThaneOfElsinore

I expressed my views on Riddhi's perspective, Shirsha. You can read that. Although I don't fully agree with her, I do understand what she's trying to convey.

Yes, I read your opinion as well. Interesting conversation is going on here. And I really like that.

Originally posted by: Riddhi2Saini006

I don't think that those particular scenes were written to create sensationalism. As being a person who knew about those books, none of the scenes were actually used to 'sell' the book. Also these kinds of books are for a very different and matured kinda audience who I don't think so would be lured into reading these whole books just to get some sort of adrenaline rush for a scene of just 2 pages. Also using a writer's creativity or a way they think to always put it in a context where they wrote sensational stuff just to sell a book is an insult to their creativity.

@violet: No, we cannot be the judge of that. Such readers usually constitute only a small fraction of the audience. Books are typically not written for such a narrow demographic; they generally aim to reach a broader set of readers.

@b: You’re entitled to your opinion, just as I am to mine. My intention is not to undermine anyone’s creativity. While I understand that the author aims to highlight how people behave based on their psychology, I believe the same point could have been conveyed without an explicit scene. Subtlety can deliver the message just as effectively as sensationalism. However, some authors prefer one approach over the other. They’re two sides of the same coin. We can agree to disagree.