Weekly Discussion Topic #1: Bhishma/Karna - Who got deprived the most? - Page 2

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NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 3 months ago
#11

Karna lived a very good life as King of Anga, spending his time with his friends and family with slaves, servants and riches at his disposal, he wasted deprived of anything.


Kunti's decision to hide him saved his life, he was Kunti's son not Pandu's son to have any rights on the throne, Kunti would have been a single mother or to hide it from the world, Karna would have been killed by Kunti's family if she had kept him


Bhishma on the other hand lost a chance to be the King and have a family, Bhishma was the rightful heir to the throne.

NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 3 months ago
#12

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

I won't say either was deprived.


Karna had actually no right on the crown, he was a Kaunteya but not a son of Pandu or someone from Kuru Vansh. At max he could be considered Kaneen santaan of Pandu who don't have rights not at all in presence of Kshetraj Santaan's like Yudhisthir and team. So why shall he have anything to inherit from that family? He got a decent family to.adopt who gave everything to him.


Bheeshm denied the throne on his own and took the celibacy vow so as to ensure his father marries girl of her choice, he wasn't forced to do that 


Still if we have to select one. It shall be Bheeshm, since he actually let go something unlike Karna who.didnt


Tag others please 


Wrote the same thing smiley36


Karna wasn't Pandu's son so he never had any right, Kunti wouldn't have been Pandu's wife if she had Karna with her, Pandu would have never married an unwed mother

FlauntPessimism thumbnail
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Posted: 3 months ago
#13

Originally posted by: NoraSM


Wrote the same thing smiley36


Karna wasn't Pandu's son so he never had any right, Kunti wouldn't have been Pandu's wife if she had Karna with her, Pandu would have never married an unwed mother

As per Smritis, Kaneen santaan comes below even adopted sons in hierarchy of children


Firstly to Pandu wouldn't have married Kunti, Secondly even if he did, Karan wouldn't have the right unless somehow Pandu decided not to have other children through Noyoga. Even then, Kauravas being legally from the family and conceived through son born of legal Niyoga would have more rights 

Moonks thumbnail
Posted: 3 months ago
#14

Originally posted by: Pete15rogmourey

It's been a while since i read Mahabharat so tagging  the people who live and.breathe Mahabharat 

yeh thoda extreme ho gayasmiley37smiley37



But Thank you for the tagsmiley31

LizzieBennet thumbnail
Posted: 3 months ago
#15

Interesting topic, thank you for tagging me, Simi. I'm no mytho or Mahabharata expert but with my limited knowledge, I'll put down my PoV. 


I think to answer this question, 'deprivation' needs to be defined first & also compared between the two of them, because we can only say 'more deprived' or 'less deprived' in relative terms.


Is it just the 'throne' we're talking about? 

Then Bheeshma's sacrifice was greater because he could have had it & let it go, but Karna was never eligible for it like others have already said. 

Is it having a family? 

Then again Bheeshma is the more deprived one because he was robbed of the love of a wife & children because of his oath. 

Is it identity? Status? Acceptance? 

Then obviously Karna is the more deprived one.


Bheeshma's oath was a choice. It was a sacrifice, yes, that he made for the love of his father, but he made it. No one forced him to. So if he's deprived, then he's self-deprived, which seems like the bigger deprivation. But depriving himself of the throne did not lose him any other privileges. He was still revered and remained the King's chief Adviser. And the most significant, to my mind, is the fact that he never regretted his choice, nor was he ever bitter about giving up the throne and choosing celibacy. He also never confessed to missing having his own family because his half-brothers were his own as were their children and their children. He was 'Pitamaha' to everyone. His social standing wasn’t affected by his oath-induced deprivation, if anything he got an even more exalted status because of it. 


Karna, on the other hand, had deprivation thrust upon him by circumstances. He may not have been eligible for the throne, true, but even so, his entire identity was erased due to Kunti's impulsiveness. He lost his social standing, and all his life faced humiliation & taunts of being low born that hurt him. He was deeply embittered by it and therefore latched on to the one person, Duryodhana, who embraced him despite his low-born status and not just that, uplifted him from that status. He bought Karna's life-long loyalty with that gesture. So that status mattered to Karna a great deal. He may have had riches & the joys of a family but his true identity/ status was denied to him all his life.


In this instance, it appears that Karna was more 'deprived'. 

They were both Kshatriyas and to identify as one & take pride in those duties mattered more than anything else, so I think going with this aspect, Karna was the more deprived one.

Edited by LizzieBennet - 3 months ago
Posted: 3 months ago
#16

Originally posted by: Quantum-Dot

Inviting our mytho lovers to participate in this  discussion and share your thoughts.

Tagging some more!

firewings_diya thumbnail
Posted: 3 months ago
#17

Thanks for the tag.smiley1 I have not gone much details but as far as i know bheeshma was responsible for Amba's miseries. Whatever he faced it was because he also did wrong with some one else and we can consider it as his karma bite him back. Pandava's respectd bhishma even though he was not a king and the decision was taken by bheeshma himself and he was adult.so he did not faced humiliation as much as karna has faced. 

But i felt karna was punished for no reason since birth. Kunti abandoned him because she was not married and he had to stay in suth house. Not against suth family but being a royal heir he was punished because of his mother's mistake. 

He was constantly mocked and insulted for being suth putra. He was not given his rightful place even though he was elder brother of pandava's. 

He had some issues too like he supported kaurav's during draupadi vastraparana. But as far i rememember he never got directly involved in it nor he prevented them from doin it. 


He got the punishment for this when he died in the final battle. But whatever he faced before he met pandava's are more painful and make him more deprieved character.

Edited by firewings_diya - 3 months ago
SilverBell thumbnail
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Posted: 3 months ago
#18

Thanks For The Tag.


For Me It Was

karna Who Got deprived  The Most

He Lost Everything His Parents And Even His Life 

Got Treated Horribly By Everyone

That's Just Too Sad..

smiley6

Posted: 3 months ago
#19

Inviting you all to share your thoughts on this topic. 

RainOfDew thumbnail
Posted: 3 months ago
#20

Imo Bheeshm's oath was his own decision, he wasnt forced to take the oath so he willingly let go of kingodom for his father. Even though he was loyal to throne he didnt had a say during Draupadi's VH when Karna ordered for her VH. 


Other side Karna was abandoned, it was not his will but even if he was Kunti's son he had no rights in Hastinapur as a prince. If Pandu had known abt him after marriage then his life could hv been better but IF only so we cant say surely. At the end he had no rights. So i dont think he was deprived of rights or even love coz he got it from his foster parents more than he could hv got as prince. He got education, kingdom of Anga as well.


So i feel it was Bheeshm who was deprived even after having everything. He was loyal to throne but didnt had much say when he should have, he didnt had a family. Yes he loved his brothers and their children as his own but dod they? I dont think so.

Edited by RainOfDew - 3 months ago