Support for Israel- DT Note pg 25, 30 (SM updates added) - Page 30

https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1722590390761517208?t=KaCZB3E0CKQl-pV69iC6hQ&s=19

Originally posted by: ohophelia

Palestinians and particularly Gazans are people who have lived in the land dating back to centuriea before even the creation of a state called "Israel". Some of the Christian Palestinians living there can trace back their lineage to the first disciples of Jesus Christ. They worship in churches that are demolished by the IDF that are some of the oldest in the world dating back to pre- Israel. These are people who are attached to their homeland, like you and I. If a bigger state with military capability were to oust from your home, occupation, and the life you have built in your land tomorrow, would you go to a neighbouring country because they are taking you like an immigrant with no rights and livelihood? Cultural and Blood lines through States and homes are not privy to easy solutions. I'm sure the Jewish population can also be shifted to parts of Europe. All the countries that are so wholeheartedly supporting Israel can take on the illegal settlers occupying West Bank and Gaza right now. But no one seems to suggest that. Why?

That Wiki page traces the history of Palestine..some excerpts

Strategically situated between three continents, the region of Palestine (also known as the Land of Israel and the Holy Land) has a tumultuous history as a crossroads for religion, culture, commerce, and politics. Palestine is the birthplace of Judaism and Christianity, and has been controlled by many kingdoms and powers, including Ancient Egypt, Ancient Israel and Judah, the Persian Empire, Alexander the Great and his successors, the Hasmoneans, the Roman Empire, several Muslim caliphates, and the crusaders. In modern times, the area was ruled by the Ottoman Empire, then the British Empire and since 1948 it has been divided into Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.

In the Bronze Age, the Canaanites established independent city-states that were influenced by the surrounding civilizations, among them Egypt, which ruled the area in the Late Bronze Age.

During the Iron Age, two related Israelite kingdoms, Israel and Judah, controlled much of Palestine, while the Philistines occupied its southern coast. thereafter. The League of Nations gave Britain mandatory power over Palestine in 1922. British colonial rule and Arab efforts to prevent Jewish migration into Palestine led to growing sectarian violence between Arabs and Jews, eventually causing the British government to announce its intention to terminate the Mandate in 1947. The United Nations General Assembly recommended partitioning Palestine into two states; one Arab and one Jewish. However, the situation in Palestine had deteriorated into a civil war between Arabs and Jews. The Arabs rejected the Partition Plan, the Jews ostensibly accepted it, declaring the independence of the State of Israel in May 1948 upon the termination of the British mandate. Nearby Arab countries invaded Palestine, but Israel not only prevailed but also conquered far more territory of the Mandate than envisioned by the Partition Plan. During the war, 700,000, or about 80% of all Palestinians fled or were driven out of the territory that Israel conquered, and were not allowed to return, in an event that became known as the Nakba ("Catastrophe") to the Palestinians. Starting in the late 1940s and continuing for decades thereafter, about 850,000 Jews from the Arab world immigrated ("made Aliyah") to Israel.

Originally posted by: carisma2

I don't think this will be easy. Israel has Americas support fully, and Britain will follow America as it always does. If the other countries get involved - WW3.

Unfortunately, there is no easy acceptable solution for this situation. Today or tomorrow it will come to down to who yields more power or support from other countries.

Originally posted by: Kyahikahoon

He didn't say they should be bombed or massacred or chased away like Kashmiri Hindus.

He is proposing a solution where without a war or bombing other Muslim nations or neighbouring nations can take them as settlers. It isn't something unprecedented or new.. people have migrated before from Turkey, Afghanistan etc and settled at different places..Sometimes willingly, sometimes unwillingly.

Few countries have a population full of settlers from elsewhere.

The other member is delusional. Kashmiri Hindus have already massacred and chased away by Muslims. They can't even return.. Some Muslims are still out for blood.

A peaceful solution is that Palestinians get support from their Muslim nations nd settle down in some of the 55 Muslim nations. Where people follow similar religion, similar traditions etc.

It will be different from Israeli Jews settling down in Europe everywhere it's different religion they will be in minority.

Or there can be a war and the one with power writes the history.

Muslims invaded many countries they weren't doing lovey dovey stuff with the victims.. they were either forced to convert or killed. 60-70% of Muslims India would Hindu converted to Muslims.

🤷‍♀️

https://x.com/shivaroor/status/1722480441578684640?s=46&t=Q96IWrDq2C9bhu2B8fjITg

Originally posted by: Kyahikahoon

That Wiki page traces the history of Palestine..some excerpts

Strategically situated between three continents, the region of Palestine (also known as the Land of Israel and the Holy Land) has a tumultuous history as a crossroads for religion, culture, commerce, and politics. Palestine is the birthplace of Judaism and Christianity, and has been controlled by many kingdoms and powers, including Ancient Egypt, Ancient Israel and Judah, the Persian Empire, Alexander the Great and his successors, the Hasmoneans, the Roman Empire, several Muslim caliphates, and the crusaders. In modern times, the area was ruled by the Ottoman Empire, then the British Empire and since 1948 it has been divided into Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.

In the Bronze Age, the Canaanites established independent city-states that were influenced by the surrounding civilizations, among them Egypt, which ruled the area in the Late Bronze Age.

During the Iron Age, two related Israelite kingdoms, Israel and Judah, controlled much of Palestine, while the Philistines occupied its southern coast. thereafter. The League of Nations gave Britain mandatory power over Palestine in 1922. British colonial rule and Arab efforts to prevent Jewish migration into Palestine led to growing sectarian violence between Arabs and Jews, eventually causing the British government to announce its intention to terminate the Mandate in 1947. The United Nations General Assembly recommended partitioning Palestine into two states; one Arab and one Jewish. However, the situation in Palestine had deteriorated into a civil war between Arabs and Jews. The Arabs rejected the Partition Plan, the Jews ostensibly accepted it, declaring the independence of the State of Israel in May 1948 upon the termination of the British mandate. Nearby Arab countries invaded Palestine, but Israel not only prevailed but also conquered far more territory of the Mandate than envisioned by the Partition Plan. During the war, 700,000, or about 80% of all Palestinians fled or were driven out of the territory that Israel conquered, and were not allowed to return, in an event that became known as the Nakba ("Catastrophe") to the Palestinians. Starting in the late 1940s and continuing for decades thereafter, about 850,000 Jews from the Arab world immigrated ("made Aliyah") to Israel.

First of all, Wikipedia is not a credible source. If you're gonna cooy-paste vast swathes of text, please refer to sources that actually have been handling this situation like the UN, Amnesty International, the ICC, UNHCR, HW, and other organisations.

Second, what is your point? Just copy pasting text does not make an intelligble argument. I did not ask for history lessons. You conveniently side stepped questions I asked and are pasting stuff from Wikipedia. 🤷‍♀️

Originally posted by: ohophelia

First of all, Wikipedia is not a credible source. If you're gonna cooy-paste vast swathes of text, please refer to sources that actually have been handling this situation like the UN, Amnesty International, the ICC, UNHCR, HW, and other organisations.

Second, what is your point? Just copy pasting text does not make an intelligble argument. I did not ask for history lessons. You conveniently side stepped questions I asked and are pasting stuff from Wikipedia. 🤷‍♀️

Wikipedia and Brittanica, two sources of valuable information people seem to keep throwing around here. Can’t make this up

I once again ask someone to copy paste the Henry Cavill gif about Wikipedia.

FYI for who needs to know this, you should only use Wikipedia and Brittanica for surface level information so you can have a starting point to do in depth research on a subject. They are not considered credible in any setting. Certainly not in an argument or academia.

Originally posted by: ohophelia

First of all, Wikipedia is not a credible source. If you're gonna cooy-paste vast swathes of text, please refer to sources that actually have been handling this situation like the UN, Amnesty International, the ICC, UNHCR, HW, and other organisations.

Second, what is your point? Just copy pasting text does not make an intelligble argument. I did not ask for history lessons. You conveniently side stepped questions I asked and are pasting stuff from Wikipedia. 🤷‍♀️

I had shared the link to the page..but people don't read. So had to copy paste.

Ok ..Wiki is also not credible..fine.

Now I have n idea what sources r credible and which ones aren't. Which tweets r credible and which r fake ones..what press to trust and what not. Why some social media is untrustworthy regarding some news and totally not for some others

Originally posted by: Kyahikahoon

I had shared the link to the page..but people don't read. So had to copy paste.

Ok ..Wiki is also not credible..fine.

Now I have n idea what sources r credible and which ones aren't. Which tweets r credible and which r fake ones..what press to trust and what not. Why some social media is untrustworthy regarding some news and totally not for some others

You are doing just fine. Don't let others browbeat you with their word salad!

Most online encyclopedias are compiled summaries of data secured from other sources, hence considered secondary sources. For the purposes of "debating" on these forums they are perfectly "admissible"; especially when all that the other parties are doing is sourcing tweets!

The bigger point is to find out what exactly are they refuting in what you are saying. If they are so scholarly, they would invalidate your argument with a peer reviewed article or publication. If they are capable, they would also contest what the encyclopedia has on their website and win by making their edits or suggestions permanent on that site. And then posting their edited articles here. Would they do it? Don't hold your breath!

Originally posted by: Kyahikahoon

This is a solution..Like the proposed 2 state solution which also isn't accepted. So now there's a war which is a solution based on power.

Regarding whose land it is, who can decide?..pls read this article. I m not at all surprised that Britain was involved in this conflict..same year as India-Pak partition..Thanks to Sardar Patel who United India, else we would be surrounded by so many of such conflicts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine#:~:text=During%20World%20War%20I%20the,power%20over%20Palestine%20in%201922.

Israel has been in direct violation of Geneva Convention and International Humanitarian Law long before the October 7th attacks. It did not keep its word of the signed Oslo Accords, by continuously increasing illegal settlements in the West Bank. Neither would it agree to the 1967 borders proposed for the two state solution which Palestine agreed to - only 22% land would have been allotted to Palestine in such a case from the original 1948 two state borders. Israel would still would have had 78% of the total Palestine land.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/21/netanyahu-rejects-obama-1967-borders

Obama had to backtrack his words regarding the 1967 borders although it has been the official US stance since forever. Israel was once again accommodated. It continuously violates peace treaties, refuses peace deals and human rights in the occupied territories.

From the report below:

"Over the past 20 years, Israel as an occupying power has continued to flout international humanitarian law by ignoring its obligations as a State party to the Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War (Fourth Geneva Convention) of 12 August 1949."

Disregard for Civilian Life Article 27: “Protected persons are entitled in all circumstances, to respect for their persons … They shall at all times be humanely treated, and shall be protected especially against all acts of violence or threats thereof ...”• Since 1987, a pattern of excessive use of force by the security forces of Israel against Palestinian civilians has been documented;• More than 10,000 Palestinians have been killed by security forces since 1987;• Israeli forces and settlers killed 1,918 Palestinian children between 2000 and 11 November 2014;• During the 2009 winter offensive on Gaza, 1,715 Palestinian civilians were killed;• Israeli forces killed 1,486 civilians, including more than500 children, during the summer offensive on Gaza in 2014;• More than 1,000 children will suffer from life-long disability as a result of the 2014 offensive.

Some 70 km2 of Palestinian land encompassing East Jerusalem and a number of nearby villages was annexed by Israel in June 1967;• An estimated 1,000 km2 (20 per cent of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem) had been confiscated by Israel by 2013;• A further 680 km2 (12 per cent of the West Bank), including around 454 km2 of agricultural land, pastures and open areas, will be de facto annexed as a result of construction of the separation wall.

Denial of Medical Care and Nourishment Article 16: “The wounded and sick, as well as the infirm, and expectant mothers, shall be the object of particular protection and respect.”• At least 10,000 of an estimated 46,000 pregnant women in Gaza were displaced during the summer offensive in2014;• At least 67 Palestinian mothers were forced to give birth at Israeli checkpoints between 2000 and 2014;• Twelve per cent of patients from Gaza were denied permits to seek treatment outside the Strip or did not receive timely replies and missed their hospital appointments in 2013;• One fifth of applications by Palestinian patients to access medical facilities in East Jerusalem are routinely denied;• At least 10 persons, including 7 pregnant women, died in1996 for lack of a permit or as a result of delays at border crossings giving access to better equipped medical facilities in the West Bank, Jerusalem or other locations in Israel.

I copy pasted the above text as well since people here seem to be under the impression that it all started on October 7th. False. Israel has been in blatant disregard and violated numerous laws and rights - article 2, 47, 27, 16, 18, 55, 49, 5, 31, 76, 53, 33, 49, 50.

You can read the comprehensive list here. https://www.unescwa.org/sites/default/files/pubs/pdf/palestine-occupation-fourth-geneva-convention-facts-figures-english.pdf

Was Israel ever held accountable for these crimes? If the violence had started from Hamas on October 7th and Israel is now "defending itself", what was it doing prior to this with all these violations and crimes? US backs claims and quashes all and any action by stating that Palestine is not a sovereign state and hence it cannot be enforced. But Hamas a non-state actor is being put before the ICC (as they should), but why leave a sovereign state like Israel with no accountability?

You are free to read the actual history from the UN of the Palestine question here: https://www.un.org/unispal/history/